Father Heathen
Veteran Member
I came across this:
Would you suppose that this POV holds true for most conservatives?
Would you suppose that this POV holds true for most conservatives?
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"This isn't about right and wrong, it's about winning and losing."
- Thread starter Father Heathen
- Start date
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
Conservative means to conserve the past. The past has lots of real world test driven data. Liberal is often about creative ideas and wishful thinking about the future, often in areas that have little in the way of accumulative data. The faith in lack of data leads to more obsession.I came across this:
Would you suppose that this POV holds true for most conservatives?
As a contrast, Conservative still conserve the idea of the nuclear family, which has been around for thousands of years and has lots of field data. It is still the most efficient social system by objective standards. The Liberals are giving transgender children all types unproven medicines and new surgical techniques. The jury is still out, since the data is new and still experimental. Which has to be more compulsive in terms of sales, the one with the most data or the one without as much data? Having data is more relaxing than having to cold call sell someone something untested. There is more need to force sell, lie and even censor data, when you sell new untested things; best thing since sliced bread.
The hard sellers of unproved ideas, will need to use more sales tricks, than those with good data. This can put the sellers of good data at a disadvantage in terms of soft selling. I do not have to hard sell an iPhone, since it is test proven over a large market. But I may need to hard sell the Z-phone and exaggerate its capability, since his is a new phone without much data.
If you are right, based on data, you do not have to cheat. But if the sales people selling the novel idea without data are hard selling and cheating, this may mean war, since the other team will play dirty tricks to win, due to lack of hard data.
The Russian Collusion Coup was based on a hard sell, with no data as good as their hard sell. Truth with data took the back seat for several years, since truth should stand on its own. However, when dealing with irrational people sucked into a hard sell, if you do not fight back, you would be railroaded by the lies of the hard sellers.
The truth with good data, would prefer to fight harder, but as sport. But the hard sellers would lose in sports without any good data to present. They will need to escalate their hard sell, and the truth will need to fight the misinformation of the escalated hard sales, since sports is off the table and it become more lies war where cheating is fine.
President Biden is no longer in his prime based on hard data. He is struggle with onset of dementia. The hard sell is needed, so he becomes a commercial about the wise old man who loves children. This commercial is sold by all the Lefty media while ignoring the hard data that could undermine the commercial.
The Left base has the irrational impression that repetition and consensus conviction means right. It does not fully grasp that too much lopsided conviction is also how you bluff in poker. The Left cannot tell the difference. To reach the Left base the right may also have to bluff; Trump, just to make it fair among the gullible. Then the Left kettle will calls the pot black, and hard sell the idea, that the one with the best data, started this. War appears inevitable since you are dealing with dishonest people with bad ideas, that can damage the country, based on conserved data.
It is good to be creative and innovative, but science also requires reasoning and data more than hard sell and the thumb of big Brother, on the scale of reason. Yet science does not set these rules of reason, straight. They are too beholden on sales.
Callisto
Hellenismos, BTW
I came across this:
Would you suppose that this POV holds true for most conservatives?
Ngl, I think both sides are equally guilty of this POV.
Most Trumpists, certainly. There is really no other explanation for being a Trump supporter, particularly now that there isn't even an hypothetical to be debated.I came across this:
Would you suppose that this POV holds true for most conservatives?
You do? Why?
Callisto
Hellenismos, BTW
Uh, because they do.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Both sides guilty of it? Undoubtedly. But equally so? Nah.
Callisto
Hellenismos, BTW
I find it so but YMMV.
exchemist
Veteran Member
The OP gives a nice example of someone who has bought into a cult of personality.
Who is the equivalent personality on the other side?
It has become such a mark of the Republicans that, quite frankly, I have a hard time taking you seriously here.
Who would it be? The strongest candidate is probably John Kennedy.
I'd say it holds true for MAGA folks.
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What I also see is this sort of "not about right or wrong, but about winning" mentality that people will attach to causes or ideas.
I've recently updated by profile to declare myself an "anti-dogmatist"
I think that whenever and wherever you encounter a person clinging to dogma, you've got a problem.
An obvious idea that I first heard from Sam Harris is this:
Humans have two ways to resolve conflict:
- discussion
- violence
From my perspective, anyone who holds a position dogmatically is curbing discussion and therefore - directly or indirectly, sooner or later - increasing the risk of violence.
Conservative is one thing. Regressionist is something else.
The Sum of Awe
Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Of course it does. But do you think that conservatives are the only ones with this mentality? Identity politics is real on all sides.I came across this:
Would you suppose that this POV holds true for most conservatives?
And identity politics is frequently very dogmatic.
Heyo
Veteran Member
It's remarkable that s/he knows and admits to it so clearly.I came across this:
Would you suppose that this POV holds true for most conservatives?
I don't think that to be an especially conservative POV. Conservatives may be more loyal to their leaders but such a person cult as with Trump reminds me more of religious cults (which have political views all over the place).
Identity politics, perhaps.
Personality cults with no regard for ethics, rationality, science and social consequences, though, seems to be very much the far right's domain these days. And it is something a lot more dangerous and difficult to defend.
It is frankly ludicrous that there are still people trying to present it as a "both sides" situation.
I came across this:
Would you suppose that this POV holds true for most conservatives?
That's not about politics or about right/wrong but totally tribal. And more than that, utterly authoritarian if not totalitarian because the writer follows der leader no matter what der leader says or does. It is, in short, a fanatic's statement.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
No it hasn't.
That's nog what experts are saying.
You know this, how? What doctor diagnosed him? Why are falling into the same rotten hole many libs did with Trump?
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
"Identity politics" is nothing more than a new term for the way we've always done things. Like how even the ancient Greeks and Romans who emphasised the identities revolving around free citizen/men, slaves, women, laborers, and others. India's rigid caste system is highly identity-driven. And all our tribal ancestors identified strongly with their tribe with a great deal of them would have been hostile towards the members of other tribes. Amd there have probably been none more attached to identity politics than lords, nobles, chieftains and kings of old (and today) who identify their legitimacy and descent from a god.