This makes me really angry

[Vee]

I saw this article on the Guardian today and even though it didn't surprise me, it made me really angry.

Global cost of obesity-related illness to hit $1.2tn a year from 2025

Some things are hard to control and even unavoidable; no one can predict an earthquake or an accident so we accept that sometimes people are victims of natural disasters/ bad luck. But the victims of obesity are not suffering from the consequences of bad luck. They are the result of a lethal mix of lack of education and greed. Lack of education because many times they were not taught how to eat and what to eat and greed because the food industry is in the market to make money and they are ruthless. It doesn’t matter what it takes, all that matters is more profit.

With very few exceptions, people become obese because of food. They eat the wrong food, in the wrong amounts at the wrong times.

What upsets me the most is knowing how easy it would be to avoid this catastrophe. There is no logical reason why things should get to this point, on the contrary, given all the means of communication we have today, nobody should be obese. Everyone should know how to eat and have access to real food. The problem is that the food industry would make less money and they aren’t going to allow that to happen. Governments on the other hand should do a lot more to educate people starting at kindergarten and limit the rubbish food /drinks available specially to children, but they do the exact opposite. I guess the food industry pays them well.

2025 is not far away. Only 7 years and what this article says is going to be a reality. It already is in many places.

Like the article points out “Obesity and smoking are the two main drivers behind the soaring numbers of cancers, heart attacks, strokes and diabetes worldwide, grouped together officially as non-communicable diseases. They are the biggest killers of the modern world. » How ridiculous is it that at the same time medicine advances and we find treatments and cures for so many illnesses, millions of people are going backwards by deliberately poisoning themselves, destroying their health and entire economies in the process. Let’s be honest, if health care is already expensive now, how much more will it cost in the very near future and what will happen to those who can’t afford it?

 

[Quintessence]

I never quite know how to take things like this. Each generation has had its medical boogieman, and this one strikes me as the latest rendition of the trend. Presuming that the idea has merit, the amount of controls needed to remedy the alleged problem would not fly in my country. There's no solution, and given the alleged problem is self-inflicted, I have a hard time caring or being sympathetic.

Ah, and to clarify, by "self-inflicted" I mean that the alleged epidemic is a product of the system - of things that we built and we wanted. Scope out a book about industrial food, for example, if you want more details on that. I can hardly to the topic a justice.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

What people are victims of in this case are their own instincts. Like it or not, even believe it or not, our bodies were not configured/evolved to have the access to specific types/amounts of nutrients we have at our disposal 24/7 in many modern societies that have these problems.

Think about something as "simple" as a sandwich - how often to you think our ancient ancestors had access to bread, meat, cheese, lettuce, tomato, pickles - let alone any of the fat/carb-loaded condiments we use today (mayonnaise/ketchup) - at the same time? I can answer that for you... never.

Our ancestors bodies best served them by producing high amounts of pleasure upon the intake of sugar, fat and carbohydrates - because those things were hard to come by - so when we found them, the body was keyed to inform us to EAT UP! And our bodies today don't know any better... they still produce those pleasure responses, because for all the body knows, "eat while the eating is good" is still the mantra to live by. But contemporary convenience and availability of nutrients ultimately works against us.

And as you have stated, on top of this we have the corporate world out there unscrupulously willing to take advantage of those instincts for financial gain, regardless the consequences to the population at large.

Agreed that it's bad. Quite the mess. And unfortunately people get really, REALLY defensive about their food choices, even when they can admit to themselves that they are doing poorly.

 

[Vee]

There's no solution, and given the alleged problem is self-inflicted, I have a hard time caring or being sympathetic.

Ah, and to clarify, by "self-inflicted" I mean that the alleged epidemic is a product of the system - of things that we built and we wanted. Scope out a book about industrial food, for example, if you want more details on that. I can hardly to the topic a justice.

I used to think the same thing and in some cases, still do, but after learning more about nutrition and how our body works I became more aware of the amount of things that influence a person's habits, specially when they start in childhood.
Since I was lucky to grow up in a country where fresh food is available everywhere and at home there were meals prepared by a human being (thank mom) I believed, for a very long time, that everybody was like me and fat people were lazy gluttons without discipline. Growing up, fast food wasn't allowed at home, fruit juices were made with real fruit squeezed into a glass and desserts were an occasional treat that mom made when we behaved.
Later I learned that many people live far way from anywhere where they can buy fruits and vegetables, not all families have the habit of cooking and things were not quite like I imagined.
When children are given processed food, full of sugar and poor in nutrients, that has an impact on their health that goes far beyond their childhood. A kid who is overweight has a much higher change of being obese when he grows up, but kids don't decide what they eat, their parents do. Since some parents are stupid, ignorant, incompetent, you name it, the kids will be paying for it with their health. It's not the child's fault.
The other day I was on a tram and in front of me there was a young woman with a boy around 5 years old. They were both drinking from the same bottle of soda and the moment the kid smiled I saw all his teeth were completely rotten. I wanted to scream at that woman. How much sugar does that child consume to have his teeth in that state?
Good habits need to be created from a young age before too much damage is done. Many of the obese adults of today were the children of neglecting/lazy parents who didn't give them the education they needed and now it's so much harder to reverse the damage, if at all possible.
You're absolutely right, this situation is a product of the system, but the system needs to change for everyone's sake, specially the children.

 

[Mister Silver]

You're absolutely right, this situation is a product of the system, but the system needs to change for everyone's sake, specially the children.

When the system is designed to overprice a healthier way of eating and when the system is designed to ensure some people are not paid enough to earn a proper living wage, then of course it becomes more clear precisely where the problem lies. It is much easier to eat cheaply at McDonald's than to purchase a ten dollar salad.

 

[Nous]

I saw this article on the Guardian today and even though it didn't surprise me, it made me really angry.

Global cost of obesity-related illness to hit $1.2tn a year from 2025

Some things are hard to control and even unavoidable; no one can predict an earthquake or an accident so we accept that sometimes people are victims of natural disasters/ bad luck. But the victims of obesity are not suffering from the consequences of bad luck. They are the result of a lethal mix of lack of education and greed. Lack of education because many times they were not taught how to eat and what to eat and greed because the food industry is in the market to make money and they are ruthless. It doesn’t matter what it takes, all that matters is more profit.

With very few exceptions, people become obese because of food. They eat the wrong food, in the wrong amounts at the wrong times.

What upsets me the most is knowing how easy it would be to avoid this catastrophe. There is no logical reason why things should get to this point, on the contrary, given all the means of communication we have today, nobody should be obese. Everyone should know how to eat and have access to real food. The problem is that the food industry would make less money and they aren’t going to allow that to happen. Governments on the other hand should do a lot more to educate people starting at kindergarten and limit the rubbish food /drinks available specially to children, but they do the exact opposite. I guess the food industry pays them well.

2025 is not far away. Only 7 years and what this article says is going to be a reality. It already is in many places.

Like the article points out “Obesity and smoking are the two main drivers behind the soaring numbers of cancers, heart attacks, strokes and diabetes worldwide, grouped together officially as non-communicable diseases. They are the biggest killers of the modern world. » How ridiculous is it that at the same time medicine advances and we find treatments and cures for so many illnesses, millions of people are going backwards by deliberately poisoning themselves, destroying their health and entire economies in the process. Let’s be honest, if health care is already expensive now, how much more will it cost in the very near future and what will happen to those who can’t afford it?

Actually, it makes me more sad than angry. But it's worthy of discussion.

The fact is the overweight/obesity epidemic in the US (the US is the most obese country in the world) is a primary contributor to Americans' enormous per capita health care costs. And that is evidently not going change for decades to come. Americans' high cancer rates--another primary contributor--are obviously related to overweight/obesity rates to some extent.

I would take exception to your statement that, "with very few exceptions," Americans become obese due to excessive calories (or the wrong calories at the wrong time). While excessive calories and sedentary lifestyles are undoubtedly the primary culprit, another factor is quite likely the prescription drugs that Americans take in inordinate amounts (which Americans did even well before the advent of the ACA). Americans have long taken disproportionate amounts of antibiotics, generally needlessly. Antibiotics are fed to factory farm animals to fatten them up quickly, and antibiotics are effective in this (presumably by disrupting the balances of gut bacteria). Antidepressants are among the top 3 most commonly consumed drugs Americans take, and are well known to cause weight gain. Opioids are also usually on the top 3 list of Americans favorite drugs. They depress metabolic activity like (or perhaps more than) any other CNS depressant.

In any case, it's difficult to see the light at the end of the tunnel here.

 

[pearl]

They are the result of a lethal mix of lack of education and greed. Lack of education because many times they were not taught how to eat and what to eat and greed because the food industry is in the market to make money and they are ruthless.

There have been efforts to reverse the trend but met with considerable opposition. Michelle Obama's Plan to End Childhood Obesity Epidemic

Poverty and obesity are closely related. All too many neighborhoods have a convenience store or a bar room on every corner. Few or no supermarkets are willing to open in these neighborhoods, there is no access to fresh produce. The farmers market that I visit now accepts EBT cards, giving more people access to quality foods.

We don't realize that food producers chemists who engineer their product that makes one wanting more.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/food-cravings-engineered-by-industry-1.1395225

So, you are correct, it is a combination, lack of education and access.

 

[Nous]

The fact is the overweight/obesity epidemic in the US (the US is the most obese country in the world) is a primary contributor to Americans' enormous per capita health care costs. And that is evidently not going change for decades to come. Americans' high cancer rates--another primary contributor--are obviously related to overweight/obesity rates to some extent.

I would take exception to your statement that, "with very few exceptions," Americans become obese due to excessive calories (or the wrong calories at the wrong time). While excessive calories and sedentary lifestyles are undoubtedly the primary culprit, another factor is quite likely the prescription drugs that Americans take in inordinate amounts (which Americans did even well before the advent of the ACA). Americans have long taken disproportionate amounts of antibiotics, generally needlessly. Antibiotics are fed to factory farm animals to fatten them up quickly, and antibiotics are effective in this (presumably by disrupting the balances of gut bacteria). Antidepressants are among the top 3 most commonly consumed drugs Americans take, and are well known to cause weight gain. Opioids are also usually on the top 3 list of Americans favorite drugs. They depress metabolic activity like (or perhaps more than) any other CNS depressant.

So you won't think I've just pulled this out of my hat, most of the big facts here are gotten from a Congressional Research Service Report: U.S. Health Care Spending: Comparison with Other OECD Countries

 

[sun rise]

For some individuals, there's a hormonal problem Obesity: Lack of 'satiety hormones' plays a role

 

[Quintessence]

@Vee - I agree with most of the points you make here, and then I find myself asking some tough follow-up questions. The solutions to the issues you point out would require some rather extensive reforms and regulations at the federal level. How do you create regulations regarding how parents raise their children, especially in a nation where such regulation is seen as undesirable and invasive? And if that's too touchy, the alternative is to regulate industry. In a nation where Capitalism is practically the state religion and people worship profit, growth, and the dollar, how do you pass legislation, say, banning (or taxing) processed/industrial foods? Even more reasonable targets - like banning large size sodas - have been met with failure (New York’s Ban on Big Sodas Is Rejected by Final Court). I don't see the status quo changing any time soon. I won't say it isn't foreseeable within my lifetime, but given how gods awful the human species is at addressing the more pressing and important environmental calamities of this age, I'm... I can't be optimistic about any of it.

Well, except for remembering that humans are an overpopulated species. Humans are under no threat by this whatsoever. We're not going to go extinct because of some alleged obesity epidemic. No, the real problem is.... well... I digress and won't usurp the topic of your thread.

 

[Nous]

For some individuals, there's a hormonal problem Obesity: Lack of 'satiety hormones' plays a role

That article clearly indicates that the reduction of enteroendocrine cells seen in obese people is the result of either obesity or overeating, not the cause:

To reach their findings, the researchers collected and examined samples of gastrointestinal tissue from 27 morbidly obese adults, both before and 3 months after they underwent laparoscopic sleeve gastrectomy (LSG) - a type of weight loss surgery.

For comparison, the team also collected and analyzed gastrointestinal tissue samples from 24 lean adults.

The analysis revealed that the gastrointestinal tissue taken from obese participants prior to LSG had significantly fewer enteroendocrine cells than the tissue samples of lean subjects.

[. . . ]

Interestingly, the analysis of tissue samples from obese participants taken after LSG showed that the number of enteroendocrine cells and the expression of transcription factors in gastrointestinal tissue was almost the same as that of the lean subjects.
​

Of course, with so few subjects, the study has no statistical power.

 

[SabahTheLoner]

It's an unfortunate fact that many people in America are undereducated about foodstuff and as a result there are many foods that aren't at all food, instead a replica the body can only store as fat. And if it is actual food, it's unhealthy in other ways.

 

[idav]

I saw this article on the Guardian today and even though it didn't surprise me, it made me really angry.

Global cost of obesity-related illness to hit $1.2tn a year from 2025

Some things are hard to control and even unavoidable; no one can predict an earthquake or an accident so we accept that sometimes people are victims of natural disasters/ bad luck. But the victims of obesity are not suffering from the consequences of bad luck. They are the result of a lethal mix of lack of education and greed. Lack of education because many times they were not taught how to eat and what to eat and greed because the food industry is in the market to make money and they are ruthless. It doesn’t matter what it takes, all that matters is more profit.

With very few exceptions, people become obese because of food. They eat the wrong food, in the wrong amounts at the wrong times.

What upsets me the most is knowing how easy it would be to avoid this catastrophe. There is no logical reason why things should get to this point, on the contrary, given all the means of communication we have today, nobody should be obese. Everyone should know how to eat and have access to real food. The problem is that the food industry would make less money and they aren’t going to allow that to happen. Governments on the other hand should do a lot more to educate people starting at kindergarten and limit the rubbish food /drinks available specially to children, but they do the exact opposite. I guess the food industry pays them well.

2025 is not far away. Only 7 years and what this article says is going to be a reality. It already is in many places.

Like the article points out “Obesity and smoking are the two main drivers behind the soaring numbers of cancers, heart attacks, strokes and diabetes worldwide, grouped together officially as non-communicable diseases. They are the biggest killers of the modern world. » How ridiculous is it that at the same time medicine advances and we find treatments and cures for so many illnesses, millions of people are going backwards by deliberately poisoning themselves, destroying their health and entire economies in the process. Let’s be honest, if health care is already expensive now, how much more will it cost in the very near future and what will happen to those who can’t afford it?

I saw this article on the Guardian today and even though it didn't surprise me, it made me really angry.

Global cost of obesity-related illness to hit $1.2tn a year from 2025

Some things are hard to control and even unavoidable; no one can predict an earthquake or an accident so we accept that sometimes people are victims of natural disasters/ bad luck. But the victims of obesity are not suffering from the consequences of bad luck. They are the result of a lethal mix of lack of education and greed. Lack of education because many times they were not taught how to eat and what to eat and greed because the food industry is in the market to make money and they are ruthless. It doesn’t matter what it takes, all that matters is more profit.

With very few exceptions, people become obese because of food. They eat the wrong food, in the wrong amounts at the wrong times.

What upsets me the most is knowing how easy it would be to avoid this catastrophe. There is no logical reason why things should get to this point, on the contrary, given all the means of communication we have today, nobody should be obese. Everyone should know how to eat and have access to real food. The problem is that the food industry would make less money and they aren’t going to allow that to happen. Governments on the other hand should do a lot more to educate people starting at kindergarten and limit the rubbish food /drinks available specially to children, but they do the exact opposite. I guess the food industry pays them well.

2025 is not far away. Only 7 years and what this article says is going to be a reality. It already is in many places.

Like the article points out “Obesity and smoking are the two main drivers behind the soaring numbers of cancers, heart attacks, strokes and diabetes worldwide, grouped together officially as non-communicable diseases. They are the biggest killers of the modern world. » How ridiculous is it that at the same time medicine advances and we find treatments and cures for so many illnesses, millions of people are going backwards by deliberately poisoning themselves, destroying their health and entire economies in the process. Let’s be honest, if health care is already expensive now, how much more will it cost in the very near future and what will happen to those who can’t afford it?

I do get your frustration, although it isn't as avoidable for some people, I do think the US could avoid being the most obese in the world.

I saw a documentary on all the government health stystems of the world and the best ones made sure to keep health cost down by going after sources of ailments and encouraged to curb things like unhealthy eating and smoking cigarettes.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

I saw this article on the Guardian today and even though it didn't surprise me, it made me really angry.

Global cost of obesity-related illness to hit $1.2tn a year from 2025

Some things are hard to control and even unavoidable; no one can predict an earthquake or an accident so we accept that sometimes people are victims of natural disasters/ bad luck. But the victims of obesity are not suffering from the consequences of bad luck. They are the result of a lethal mix of lack of education and greed. Lack of education because many times they were not taught how to eat and what to eat and greed because the food industry is in the market to make money and they are ruthless. It doesn’t matter what it takes, all that matters is more profit.

With very few exceptions, people become obese because of food. They eat the wrong food, in the wrong amounts at the wrong times.

What upsets me the most is knowing how easy it would be to avoid this catastrophe. There is no logical reason why things should get to this point, on the contrary, given all the means of communication we have today, nobody should be obese. Everyone should know how to eat and have access to real food. The problem is that the food industry would make less money and they aren’t going to allow that to happen. Governments on the other hand should do a lot more to educate people starting at kindergarten and limit the rubbish food /drinks available specially to children, but they do the exact opposite. I guess the food industry pays them well.

2025 is not far away. Only 7 years and what this article says is going to be a reality. It already is in many places.

Like the article points out “Obesity and smoking are the two main drivers behind the soaring numbers of cancers, heart attacks, strokes and diabetes worldwide, grouped together officially as non-communicable diseases. They are the biggest killers of the modern world. » How ridiculous is it that at the same time medicine advances and we find treatments and cures for so many illnesses, millions of people are going backwards by deliberately poisoning themselves, destroying their health and entire economies in the process. Let’s be honest, if health care is already expensive now, how much more will it cost in the very near future and what will happen to those who can’t afford it?

Smoking rates are vastly reduced though are they not?

And smoking suppresses appetite, and also reduces stress. The rise in obesity and heart failure is in reverse correlation with smoking rates.

This is utterly unambiguous, yet surprisingly difficult to find the two ever shown on the same chart.- but here's one

 

[Maponos]

Obese people are also at the fault of their own actions. No one is forcefully shoving the food down their throats.

 

[Vee]

Obese people are also at the fault of their own actions. No one is forcefully shoving the food down their throats.

True to a certain degree but not as simple as that. There are huge hormonal and psychological factors that have a massive impact on human behavior and body response.

 

[Vee]

Another unhappy update: CDC Says Americans Are Fatter Than Ever Before; 40% Of Adults Now Considered Obese

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

When the system is designed to overprice a healthier way of eating and when the system is designed to ensure some people are not paid enough to earn a proper living wage, then of course it becomes more clear precisely where the problem lies. It is much easier to eat cheaply at McDonald's than to purchase a ten dollar salad.

Your thinks exposes the fault line very well.
The choice is not between a Big Mac or a Made salad.
It is between choosing and preparing your own food and buying it ready made.

If you prepare your own food it is far cheaper, and depending on what you select far more nourishing.
I rarely spend more than 20 minutes preparing a meal for myself. so time is not an issue.

Am I over weight Yes... has that given me problems ... yes.
so I am cutting out all snacks and all added sugar. In the last ten days I have lost 7 + pounds. I will lose at least a stone by Christmas.
When I retired at 65 I weighed 189 pounds I had been that weight since my 30's. 17 years later at 82, I was 209 pounds. I am unlikely to get much below the original 189 pounds, nor do I particularly need to. but 180 pounds would probably be ideal for me.
The meals that I eat have hardly changed at all. it is the snacks that cause my problems.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Obese people are also at the fault of their own actions. No one is forcefully shoving the food down their throats.

That's technically true, but medically there are disorders where you end up eating up everything in sight by impulse without really having any real control over it.

I think one of the solutions is redirecting people who tend to eat a lot to change their habits where they can still be gluttonous but still lose weight.

I suffer that same problem, got a heart attack as a result by high cholesterol and quickly changed my eating habits. I still eat tons of food but I'm also losing weight.

Mainly by switching to diet sodas, and trading off chips and candy for fruits and vegetables.

It works. Also lowering salt intake actually over a period of time makes food actually taste better although it's hard to wean off high sodium content. We still need salt to live though, so I ingest the amount that is required.