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This Pizza Parlor Is Indiana's First Business to Deny Service to LGBT Customers

jonathan180iq

Well-Known Member
In all seriousness, what is stop someone under the protection of this law from denying service to the black community, or to Jews, or to Muslims, because their version of religious belief tells them that those people are not equal to the righteous whites of the Midwest?

I think we can try and hide behind this idea of religious protection as much as we want, but it's hard to deny the purpose of this law being simply to sanction and protect bigotry.
No one's religious freedom's are being infringed upon by gay people existing. No one is forcing any business to do anything they they don't want to do. Those measures were already established. Chick-fil-a famously makes a perfect example. They close on Sunday and their CEO openly doesn't like homsexuality. Did the government jump down their throats and force them to only hire gay workers? Was the CEO outed in a government backed coup detat for his beliefs? Did a local militia make them kneel before the mighty hand of Ra?

No. Of course not.

And sense there are no laws forcing religious views to be subdued, there is absolutely no reason to have a law "protecting" something that isn't (and was never) being threatened.

Religious freedom is about being free and able to practice whatever the hell you want whenever and however the hell you want to because those beliefs are central to your understanding of yourself and world around you. It's the legislation of religious views, which are not shared or held by every single member of a community, that need to be constricted, not expanded.

On that matter, "Religious views" are about as valid a thing as me saying I don't like mushrooms. I don't like mushrooms and I have a cookbook that references mushrooms being bad for you. Do I get a law banning mushroom farmers from selling mushrooms in my town? Do I get a law protecting my right to openly discriminate against people who want mushrooms served with their meals? I should! It's my religious belief!

You know what you're gonna tell me about my hatred of mushrooms?
"Get over it."
And I will, because that's what adults do.
I don't eat mushrooms. I don't order them on my food. I'll pick them if they show up on my pizza. But I don't bellyache about mushrooms existing and request that there be laws protecting my right to hate mushrooms. I don't rally up an entire political movement focused on helping me ban mushrooms from being sold in my town. I don't picket mushroom farms, teaching about the folly of mushroom consumption... I don't do that because the rights of other human beings to consume mushrooms is just as valid as my right to think mushroom eaters are idiots. I don't get special treatment because I wear an anti-mushroom pin when I march around town. I don't get that kind of special treatment because it would be absolutely absurd to ask for it, and even more so if my society actually gave it to me....

Don't think hatred of mushrooms has anything to do with the RFRA? Ask yourself them how you'd feel if the dreaded Shariah Law was sanctioned, protected, and allowed in certain sections of larger cities because the predominant communities of those cities were hard line Muslims... What's the difference? It's their religious belief. It should be allowed to flourish, using the logic of this new law, right? After all, their interpretation of the Koran doesn't promote hatred and violence,it's simply them enacting the will and desires of the almighty god upon humanity.

Thus is the Religious Freedom Restoration Act
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Yes...if that is your choice
Why would that be ok? Jehovah's Witnesses are people, and as people, entitled to the same basic dignity and respect that everyone else is.
In all seriousness, what is stop someone under the protection of this law from denying service to the black community, or to Jews, or to Muslims, because their version of religious belief tells them that those people are not equal to the righteous whites of the Midwest?
It seems that not many people have realized this, and the focus has been on the GLBT community (though when the acronym is not used it's gays and lesbians; bisexuals and transgenders are not mentioned), and, as a whole, ethnicity and other religions have not been addressed by many people.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
The pizza tossers are hardly the victims. If they are so rooted in their faith, then they have to accept the consequences of vocalizing their beliefs. If they are so Christian they must remember that Jesus said his followers would be persecuted for his sake. They're running a pizza joint, not Burger King: they can't have it their way. I feel no sympathy for them, nor will I ever. Ye shall reap what ye sow (see, I can do that too).
 

jonathan180iq

Well-Known Member
If they are so rooted in their faith, then they have to accept the consequences of vocalizing their beliefs

OH_SNAP_by_GleekBar1FTW.gif
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
The extreme of this:

Religion says followers must kill apostates, gays, and adulterers. Followers then start taking measures to follow religious edicts. State says that religious freedom must be restored, so followers can be free to follow their faith to its fullest.

People say that's cruel and barbaric and that human rights trumps religious beliefs. Pushback occurs.

Religious followers claim they are being persecuted. Lather, rinse, repeat.

C'mon folks, let's re-examine this fuzzy logic when it comes to actual people being brutalized by family and by community leaders.
 

jonathan180iq

Well-Known Member
The extreme of this:

Religion says followers must kill apostates, gays, and adulterers. Followers then start taking measures to follow religious edicts. State says that religious freedom must be restored, so followers can be free to follow their faith to its fullest.

People say that's cruel and barbaric and that human rights trumps religious beliefs. Pushback occurs.

Religious followers claim they are being persecuted. Lather, rinse, repeat.

C'mon folks, let's re-examine this fuzzy logic when it comes to actual people being brutalized by family and by community leaders.
+1

It's just ridiculous and incredibly short-sighted.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
The pizza tossers are hardly the victims. If they are so rooted in their faith, then they have to accept the consequences of vocalizing their beliefs. If they are so Christian they must remember that Jesus said his followers would be persecuted for his sake. They're running a pizza joint, not Burger King: they can't have it their way. I feel no sympathy for them, nor will I ever. Ye shall reap what ye sow (see, I can do that too).
I don't either. If they think online comments against them are scary, if people running their mouths against them is frightening, they should read online comments against the GLBT community and get to know some of the many homosexuals and transgeners who have been assaulted and attacked because those "religious" people are so insistent that homosexuals and transgenders are less regular citizens deserving of the full protections, rights, and privileges bestowed by the law.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
I keep saying LGBTs are the last group it's still OK and acceptable to hate and persecute. Even when same sex marriage becomes legal all over the US (and it will), and anti-discrimination laws are enforced, there will always be some who persecute on the sly, in the name of their God.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
It's also still widely accepted to hate and persecute Hispanics, Jews, and Muslims. Mockery of Tourette's syndrome is still very much alive. And of course atheists can still expect for some people to be ******** to them.
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
The link from Woodrow puts the number at $55,000, a donation for standing for their religious beliefs.
It will be interesting to watch the history unfold as this goes forth. I doubt the bigot community has the resources to "gofund" every business that declares their intention to discriminate.
 

jonathan180iq

Well-Known Member
It's not just $55,000 anymore....

EDIT: as of this posting, it's well over $750,000
over 27,000 individual contributions averaging almost $30 a person.

 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
It's not just $55,000 anymore....

EDIT: as of this posting, it's well over $750,000
over 27,000 individual contributions averaging almost $30 a person.

Right, but what I wonder about is the next pizza place, burger joint, chicken, or ice cream place. Will they get this much money for their bigotry? Or will the resources (or generosity) of the bigots eventually dry up?
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
Right, but what I wonder about is the next pizza place, burger joint, chicken, or ice cream place. Will they get this much money for their bigotry? Or will the resources (or generosity) of the bigots eventually dry up?

Likely will start to dry up. Same thing happened with Chik-Fil-A. Big boost in the beginning. Followed by a downward spiral.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
It's not just $55,000 anymore....

EDIT: as of this posting, it's well over $750,000
over 27,000 individual contributions averaging almost $30 a person.

I gotta get in to this bigotry business!
I hereby announce my intention to discriminate against someone.
I'll let the money roll in with directions about whom to dis.
 

starlite

Texasgirl
Dress code is not a valid comparison because people have a choice about the way they dress. People don't have a choice about their gender, race or sexual orientation.

My point in making my previous comment is that as a follower of Christ I endeavor to be peaceable with all....therefore I would not make an issue if someone denied me a service.
Romans 12:18
If possible, as far as it depends on you, be peaceable with all men.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
"if" a business chooses to not allow certain things at their establishment ( such as no shirt no shoes no service) then so be it....take your business someplace else and not make an issue out of it

They made an issue of it in the first place. This is not some business decision; they're using their business to make a statement about the character of LGBT people.

The fact that people who would never serve pizza at their wedding won't be able to get pizza from this place that AFAICT never catered weddings anyhow is not the real issue in this case (though it might have been an issue if we were talking about a business that provided more vital goods or services denying service... like the only grocery in a small town refusing to sell to LGBT people).

The real issue here is that they're using all this as a symbolic way to send a message... and it's entirely appropriate to send a message right back to them.

Your suggested course of action amounts to telling one side of this debate to shut up, which I think is completely inappropriate.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
My point in making my previous comment is that as a follower of Christ I endeavor to be peaceable with all....therefore I would not make an issue if someone denied me a service.
Romans 12:18
If possible, as far as it depends on you, be peaceable with all men.
If you want to respond that way yourself, that's your right and choice. Don't try to impose your choice on others.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
In all seriousness, what is stop someone under the protection of this law from denying service to the black community, or to Jews, or to Muslims, because their version of religious belief tells them that those people are not equal to the righteous whites of the Midwest?
The Indiana state constitution.

The RFRA doesn't supersede the state constitution, and in Indiana, race and religion are protected classes. Sexual orientation and gender identity aren't.

This is one of the differences between Indiana and certain other states with similar so-called "religious freedom" laws.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
The Indiana state constitution.

The RFRA doesn't supersede the state constitution, and in Indiana, race and religion are protected classes. Sexual orientation and gender identity aren't.

This is one of the differences between Indiana and certain other states with similar so-called "religious freedom" laws.
On top of this, race is federally protected (1866 law).
 
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