Thou Shalt Not Suffer a Witch to Live.

[ChristineM]

I did not know about this passage and plan to spend some time investigating it.

Exodus 22:18 Thou Shalt not suffer a Witch to live.

I wonder if this passage is responsible for the Salem Witch trials? The article said that in Ghana, it was used to kill those who were suspected of it.

When I was in Kenya as a Missionary, there were those around who were said to be witches.

Not planning to go on a Witch hunt.

Not only Salem, englan in the 1600s, The current "witch" burnings in several parts of africa

Also see Leviticus 20:27

I also heard the verse is not in original bibles but turned up with the kjv.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Interestingly, in the 16th century Europe public enemy number one were those who dared to translate the Bible into the language of the common people. The penalty was death burning at the stake drawing from the penalty given to witches from the laws of Moses. Hard hearted.

The church is not supposed to have the power of the sword, the church is only to discipline with a motive of love those who are members, for their good. The state has power to enforce laws. The family is charged with raising children primarily. Mix those up and often 'the wheels come off the bus"

Agreed. I sometimes feel as if the church went off the rails very soon after Jesus' Crucifixion. Paul seemed to take it in a very different direction, and at times seemed as if he thought he was greater than Jesus. My thinking on this matter is quite disorderly. Perhaps it should have grown up much closer to Judaism?

The years in which they Canonized the Bible, then the years of the Inquisition, and later the reformation must have been quite painful to those living. It is clear to me there has been a foolish war between Science and Spirituality for much of human history. I'm not sure of the reasons for the "Burned Out Period" in North Eastern America.

These days quiet nondenominational worship seems best. I use the King James, not because it is best but I have seen many of the arguments surrounding it, and come to my own conclusions.

 

[Ellen Brown]

It's a reminder not to seek spiritual power apart from God.

Note that King Saul went to a medium the night before he died (from Endor... like Endora the mom of Samantha from the old TV show Bewitched) It's a sign of spiritual darkness.

So, nothing at all to do with the Ewoks.

 

[oldbadger]

I did not know about this passage and plan to spend some time investigating it.

Exodus 22:18 Thou Shalt not suffer a Witch to live.

I wonder if this passage is responsible for the Salem Witch trials? The article said that in Ghana, it was used to kill those who were suspected of it.

When I was in Kenya as a Missionary, there were those around who were said to be witches.

Not planning to go on a Witch hunt.

James 1st was most interested about witches and witchcraft, and I read that he often sat in to listen to witchcraft trials.

Witches were often executed in England, and I suspect that one way for a neighbour to gain a nearby widow's property would have been to accuse her of any witchcraft, and within a short time she would be dead and her land free for squatting or enclosure.

Here are other verses from the OT banning spiritualism, witchcraft and 'magic', i.e. anything that folks couldn't understand or did not like. Times was dangerous for lone single females, it seems.

Not to practice superstitions/witchcraft (Lev. 19:26)
Not to consult spirits or wizards(Lev. 19:31)
Not to practice magic (Deut.18:10)
Not to seek the dead or caste spells(Deut. 18:11)

 

[Baladas]

I did not know about this passage and plan to spend some time investigating it.

Exodus 22:18 Thou Shalt not suffer a Witch to live.

I wonder if this passage is responsible for the Salem Witch trials? The article said that in Ghana, it was used to kill those who were suspected of it.

When I was in Kenya as a Missionary, there were those around who were said to be witches.

Not planning to go on a Witch hunt.

I think that it likely contributed to it, yes. Though the witch mania started in Europe to be sure and then spread to the colonies.
There is a documentary on Netflix about the witch hunts in Britain called "Witches: A Century of Murder" which I found interesting...and very sad.

I found this exegesis extremely interesting Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live: A murderous mistranslation?

Very interesting indeed!

Many killed as witches were targets of the climate by people who wanted them gone. They did not necessarily practice. But there are certainly Christians today who still loath the idea of anyone engaging in witchcraft though most have no idea what that even means.

It's tragic that so many people have died because of fear and ignorance.

My wife's parents fall into this category of Christians. They think that even fictional witchcraft is evil, and that witches have supernatural power that they draw from the devil. They have no idea at all what witchcraft or Paganism really are and they don't actually care.
On a related note, they are some of the only people in the family who don't know I'm a Pagan.

 

[iam1me]

I did not know about this passage and plan to spend some time investigating it.

Exodus 22:18 Thou Shalt not suffer a Witch to live.

I wonder if this passage is responsible for the Salem Witch trials? The article said that in Ghana, it was used to kill those who were suspected of it.

When I was in Kenya as a Missionary, there were those around who were said to be witches.

Not planning to go on a Witch hunt.

Something we must keep in mind is that - at the end of the day - death is the common penalty for any and all sin. That doesn't mean that that is what God wants for us.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
​

Of course, the Jewish Law does not call for an immediate death for any and all sin - only actions which are seen as particularly destructive/blasphemous receive such a reaction. Witchcraft would naturally be viewed as a blasphemous thing, for it is in essence an attempt to manipulate people and nature according to one's own will - in contradiction to what God has established. It is also usually accompanied by the worship of nature and/or other gods/daemons. The pagans of the day were also known to do things like throw their children into the fire.

2 Kings 17:31the Avvites made Nibhaz and Tartak, and the Sepharvites burned their children in the fire as sacrifices to Adrammelek and Anammelek, the gods of Sepharvaim.​

That said, the Law was restricted to the Jewish State and people. It wasn't their job to go to around to other countries and persecute people who didn't follow the Jewish Law.

It is also entirely inappropriate for Christians to go around judging people, carrying out the penalty for the Law without mercy - as was definitely the case in such witch trials.

James 2:12-13 Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.​

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I found this exegesis extremely interesting Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live: A murderous mistranslation?

Consider this passage from the article you linked:

Thousands of years down the line, without a Rosetta stone of ancient evils and a definitive translation of mekashaph, we cannot know if the authors of Exodus meant poisoners, herbalists, or people who used magic for evil.

I remain unconvinced how any of that matters. The real point to take away here is that The Bible says, with no ambiguity in the other parts of this quote:

"THOU SHALT NOT SUFFER A [insert whoever or whatever you want here] TO LIVE."​

According to the article, it says one of a few possible things:

"THOU SHALT NOT SUFFER A [poisoner] TO LIVE."
"THOU SHALT NOT SUFFER AN [herbalist] TO LIVE."
"THOU SHALT NOT SUFFER AN [evil magic user] TO LIVE."​

or maybe even something else altogether. But so what? What it IS, is a commandment to kill someone, regardless, is it not?

Whatever happened to "THOU SHALT NOT KILL?"

 

[viole]

I did not know about this passage and plan to spend some time investigating it.

Exodus 22:18 Thou Shalt not suffer a Witch to live.

I wonder if this passage is responsible for the Salem Witch trials? The article said that in Ghana, it was used to kill those who were suspected of it.

When I was in Kenya as a Missionary, there were those around who were said to be witches.

Not planning to go on a Witch hunt.

Well, whoever wrote it (I suppose God) seems to have believed in witches.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Brickjectivity]

...On a related note, they are some of the only people in the family who don't know I'm a Pagan.

It is the greatest tragedy when the community is unable to accept any people with different thoughts, because there always are. You can see from History that this was not originally the case as Christians used to take pagan culture in and utilize its best features for communal benefit. Now anyone with a difference is pecked to death as if the church were a turkey cage. This is a teensy bit off topic but really I think is the problem that causes the witch hunts and which must still be dealt with. Knowing that you are pagan should not be creating emotional pain for you. Instead there should be a place for you, because its supposed to be about love and not shibboleths. I have mixed hope about whether we will again see the christianity which the pagans needed and joined in great numbers.

 

[RabbiO]

The real point to take away here is that The Bible says, with no ambiguity in the other parts of this quote:

"THOU SHALT NOT SUFFER A [insert whoever or whatever you want here] TO LIVE."​

According to the article, it says one of a few possible things:

"THOU SHALT NOT SUFFER A [poisoner] TO LIVE."
"THOU SHALT NOT SUFFER AN [herbalist] TO LIVE."
"THOU SHALT NOT SUFFER AN [evil magic user] TO LIVE."​

or maybe even something else altogether. But so what? What it IS, is a commandment to kill someone, regardless, is it not?

Whatever happened to "THOU SHALT NOT KILL?"

If you are referencing the Ten Commandments, there is no commandment not to kill.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

If you are referencing the Ten Commandments, there is no commandment not to kill.

Do you like "You shall not murder" or "Thou shalt do no murder" better?

Even with such a difference in wording, what would you call "not suffering" someone to live? If putting an end to their life so that you no longer need to "suffer" their life on Earth is NOT murder, then what would you call it? Self defense? "She was a witch! She was doin' them there magics! I swear it!" - ain't going to fly these days because it NEVER should have been acceptable at any time. We'd have to instruct the courts to allow pleas of "temporary stupidity." Or maybe they were all herbalists... those dastardly individuals, all known for being inherently evil. Or perhaps they all poisoned people. Is it still self-defense if they didn't poison YOU?

These are the sorts of things no one on Earth thinks about when they write this sort of crap... but are things I would think had better interest God if He's to maintain any sort of idea of fairness about the matter. Hell, our own court systems everywhere on Earth are chock full of examples of these types of ambiguous situations that require more and more spelling out of "the rules" in order to plug all the holes. Why would this be if there is an obvious "perfect" standard? Maybe the perfect standard is only obvious to God? Certainly seems like a bit of learning I'd want to pass on to anyone I cared about if I knew it... wouldn't you?

Or, alternatively, if you feel that the commandment oft portrayed as "thou shalt not kill/murder" means something else entirely, or you don't believe it is actually written anywhere in The Bible, I'd be keen to hear your take on it.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I understand extremely little Hebrew, so I have no comment to make on the translation of Exodus 22:18. I don't claim to know what kind of witchcraft or whatever it referred to, but justice is an eye for an eye, a life for a life, so if it meant a poisoner, that would why it necessitated the death penalty. That's just me thinking...nothing set.

If I'm not mistaken, there is only one recorded instance of Rabbinical justice meting out the death penalty for witchcraft, and the story is so utterly fantastic that scholars believe it to be fiction.

If I could make a few sweeping generalizations, Judaism makes the same association of witchcraft with women (although men could be practitioners as well). But it just didn't have the demonic overtones that Christians gave it. It was viewed as more of a vice that almost all women couldn't resist, even the wives of sages. So it was more or less tolerated, especially if it was of the positive sort such as healing or the making of amulets. There simply never were any of the witch hunts among Jews that you find among Christians. Perhaps because we were so used to being falsely accused and hunted ourselves?


Now I would like to make a few comments about magic and witches, not from Judaism, but just from my own thinking.

Magic doesn't exist. Magical thinking exists on a large scale. It is very common for people to make certain types of logical errors in ascribing cause and effect. There are practitioners of Magic that truly believe in what they are doing and are truly unaware that it is ineffective. But there are also a preponderance of confidence men and women who take advantage of the vulnerability of those with magical thinking. I believe that the reason that things like divination, spell casting, and necromancy are forbidden is NOT because they are true and dangerous, but because they are UNTRUE but still dangerous precisely because they are untrue. Life savings have been squandered, hearts broken, and lives ruined because of the callous con games played by charlatans

MYSOGYNY is at the root of the urge to hunt down and kill witches. Yes. It is hatred of women. During the height of the European witch trials, there were entire villages left with no women. Can anyone explain that with any other reason than mysogyny? It begins with accusations against a woman who is different, or rebellious, or somehow independent. From there the circle simply gets drawn larger and larger.
Consider this: Time is here and now. You have a 30 some odd year old single woman. She supports herself with her own job. (IOW she is not dependent on a man.) She is an herbalist. She may even grow her own herbs, and she certainly brews her own concoctions. She has a good and loving heart, and when people in her apartment complex get sick, she takes her teas to them. Her cats usually follow her around the place wherever she goes. She has her own style of dress -- she likes a vintage seventies bohemian look. I would lay you odds that someone in that apartment complex thinks she's a witch. She's too independent, too empowered, too far from the norm. Witch! Bruja!

People will stop hunting witches when men are finally no longer afraid of women taking their power, meaning that men have learned to power share.

 

[tayla]

Thou Shalt not suffer a Witch to live.

Seems to me the criteria for whether to kill someone should involve them threatening to kill and harm others of society; and even then killing them doesn't seem proper, at least in many cases. This should be our standard for judging scripture. A passage that doesn't conform to this kind of moral argument should be rejected as false and harmful.

I, for one, refuse to make excuses and allowances for people's exploitation and savagery towards others just because their revealed religion says it's OK (or even commands it).

 

[ObjectOfMercy]

God's Word and righteous judgements are never responsible for the sins of ungodly men. That is their own doing. First of all, a cursory knowledge of Scripture is never enough to form an understanding of what God is actually saying. God will not be worshiped by shallow and vain men who cannot apply their minds to understanding a matter above their heads. Those who rush to judgement are foolish. They are without faith, and this also the Word reveals, when men twist the Scriptures due to their lack of faith in God's righteousness and goodness. The fault is with men.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

During the height of the European witch trials, there were entire villages left with no women.

Do you have any historical evidence? Well no, because it's total rubbish. Incidentally, if you examine the records of witch trials, you find the accusations are often made by women.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

The witch-hunting in ex-colonies is on a par with their persecution of homosexuals: they have adopted the worst aspects of the religion of their former colonial masters in a sort of Stockholm syndrome.

I think that can certainly be true, and it can.contribute, but I think the local culture contributes more than this would suggest.

 

[Shad]

The church is not supposed to have the power of the sword, the church is only to discipline with a motive of love those who are members, for their good.

The Church would turn people over to secular powers, monarchs and the like, to do it's dirty work for them.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Do you have any historical evidence? Well no, because it's total rubbish. Incidentally, if you examine the records of witch trials, you find the accusations are often made by women.

Paraphrased: Between 1400 and 1750 there were as many as 50,000 executions in Europe, 26.000 in Germany alone, and 75-80% of these were women. Gendercide Watch: European Witch-Hunts

Some entire villages in Europe were may have been exterminated.
Persecuting Witches and Witchcraft

First published in 1487, Malleus Maleficarum provided justification for the murder of thousands of women in medieval Europe. Spreading like the fire it encouraged, entire towns were left decimated by the witch trials that ensued. No book has been more damaging to the history of women than The Hammer of Witches.
The Book that Burns Women Alive - Bibliology