Thoughts on Atheism

[Mohsen]

Sure. I happily acknowledge the real existence of plenty of things that theists of various stripes hold out as gods

Good for you, but I believe my post went over your head. Which is why I’m not replying to the rest of your post,

Peace

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Or that the Big Bang at time zero consisted of mass-energy, and that spacetime is a property of mass-energy; coupled with the observation that from observation we conclude energy can neither be created or destroyed.

That hypothesis has the advantage that at least we know mass-energy exists. (As for the Improbability Drive, see Adams' Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. As for gods, see Hans Anderson's Fairy Tales.)

Oh, if it's said to exist independently of a physical brain, it's magic pure and simple!

Yes, let's.

Again, not only do we know that creative intelligence exists, we ALSO know that it has the unique capacity to originate truly novel complex information systems, such as those which space/time matter/energy ultimately boil down to.

This cannot be similarly demonstrated for spontaneous processes, which without any creative input, require an infinite regression of further spontaneous processes to determine their own.


Andre Linde, principle in modern inflationary theory, considers it feasible; that we could one day create our own universe, that there's nothing inherently stopping us from doing so... and that this may in fact be where our's came from; a product of creative intelligence from another 'universe'. Others have even toyed with the idea that it is our own creation, having reverse engineered our own universe entirely.

Just a couple of possible scenarios for ID, which may well involve a physical brain as we understand it, - how likely? impossible to say, but if it is only one in a trillion, that's still vastly better odds than blind fluke

 

[PureX]

We don't live in a vacuum.

Atheism is a vacuum, according to you.

 

[Augustus]

To me, describing atheistic materialism as "a variety of atheism" seems just as backward as describing a red car as "a variety of redness." IMO, it makes no sense... We don't live in a vacuum. Atheism would be irrelevant if it wasn't for the theistic environment we find ourselves in.

You are really discussing 2 different things.

You are going for an isolated 'dictionary' atheism, the kind that exists in a vacuum.

The other way of looking at it is atheism as a living concept representing a particular philosophical position that exists in a nexus of broader philosophical, cultural and environmental contexts and has a dynamic relationship with these.

Both have their uses, but discussions of the latter will always contain things that are not denoted by the former.

 

[Revoltingest]

I am an agnostic theist. I have no way of knowing if gods exist, or not. Yet I choose to believe that a god of my own understanding does exist, not based on knowledge (because I am agnostic), but based on the positive results of faith in my experience of life.

Agnosticism is not tied to theism or atheism. It's tied to the understanding that we lack sufficient knowledge of gods to determine their nature and existence. That doesn't stop us from choosing to believe or disbelieve in gods, however, as we can do so based on other criteria besides knowledge: biased skepticism in the case of atheism, and biased faith in the case of theism.

You say choice is involved for you.
I don't argue against this...for you.
But it doesn't apply to me.
I can no more choose to believe in gods than
I could choose to believe in Santy Claus.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Atheism is a vacuum, according to you.

No, it isn't. Atheists have plenty of beliefs; it's just none of those beliefs are in gods.

 

[syo]

Firstly, Atheism is (for me) the explicit rejection of the existence of god.

i've always thought of atheists as ''actively against god''

 

[Mohsen]

i've always thought of atheists as ''actively against god''

Those are misotheists,

Atheists simply pretend they don’t care for believing in God but spend most all their free time on forums discussing their non belief in God!!! Ironic.

Peace

 

[Willamena]

Come again?

No one is required to hold any particular composite belief.

 

[suncowiam]

Yes I do! An atheist may refer to a ultra cosmic force outside of the space and time continuum, ie outside this universe - and this force I may refer to as God !!! By the same token, a Christian defining a grandpa like figure who sits in clouds would be rejected by myself and the atheist - this is why it is a good idea to define the theology behind the claim!

Peace

This whole statement is invalid.

By definition an atheist does not believe in God. This is not a true Scotsman fallacy either. One still has to abide by the technicalities of the words and definitions. That's like saying a car flies.

You cannot redefine it to fit your assertions.

No Christian is defining a grandpa like figure who sits in the clouds as their God. That is a very disingenuous claim and disrespectful to Christians.

You can reject a Christian's claim of God but you redefined the meaning of God to fit your agenda. Just like Quint has an agenda to assert her Gods, you have an agenda to assert your God. Technically, you cannot do this if we adhere to the core definition of God. Hence, exactly proving my point with these redefinitions of God.

Again, for the sake of this discussion, no one needs to redefine God. It does not prove the point differently to atheists. If you disagree, then take a God and intersect it against all the points made by the OP.

 

[suncowiam]

Those are misotheists,

Atheists simply pretend they don’t care for believing in God but spend most all their free time on forums discussing their non belief in God!!! Ironic.

Peace

God does not exist. But theists do and their false claims of how to live life! I am personally against those that force oppression and bigotry on others based on claims that will never be proven.

Not all theists are such way, but many are more so than not.

 

[Mohsen]

God does not exist. But theists do and their false claims of how to live life! I am personally against those that force oppression and bigotry on others based on claims that will never be proven.

Not all theists are such way, but many are more so than not.

you can’t prove He doesn’t exist. I don’t think you know the scientific method nor the philosophy of science and are arguing through your own subjective ignorance now!

Peace

 

[corynski]

Those are misotheists,

Atheists simply pretend they don’t care for believing in God but spend most all their free time on forums discussing their non belief in God!!! Ironic.

Peace

Exactly, atheists want to understand why people believe in religions and deities when there is so little evidence of any of the myriad of gods created by men, so we talk to believers. But those who believe in gods seem to have very little real knowledge of what an atheist is, or knows, or believes. For example, your initial statement, 'Atheists simply pretend they don't care for believing in God....', but that is not true. We're not pretending, we just want some real evidence that people can agree upon regarding any deity. I'm forced back to my ancient thinking regarding semantics and the meaning of words and language. To say something 'is', means that it possesses what we call 'Being', as our human 'being' is flesh and blood... so what is the Being of God? I read lists of God's attributes, but nothing regarding 'being'. Atheists are interested in learning reality, a reality that we can all agree upon.

 

[suncowiam]

you can’t prove He doesn’t exist. I don’t think you know the scientific method nor the philosophy of science and are arguing through your own subjective ignorance now!

Peace

True concerning I will never be able to prove God does not exist. Let me rephrase that. I will never be able to discuss with God about his follower's claims. I can debate his followers so this answers your question why atheists jump on these forums.

 

[Mohsen]

True concerning I will never be able to prove God does not exist. Let me rephrase that. I will never be able to discuss with God about his follower's claims. I can debate his followers so this answers your question why atheists jump on these forums.

I didn’t ask any question, I made a statement based on observations - a scientific sample study if you will

Peace

 

[corynski]

you can’t prove He doesn’t exist. I don’t think you know the scientific method nor the philosophy of science and are arguing through your own subjective ignorance now!

Peace

Mohsin.......It is incumbent upon those who assert something exists to be required to prove it........Can you prove unicorns or trolls don't exist. Proving the nonexistence of anything is impossible I believe.

 

[suncowiam]

I didn’t ask any question, I made a statement based on observations - a scientific sample study if you will

Peace

And I'm adding further to your scientific sample study if you will. This is actually coming from an atheist. Which I would assume should help your observation in this study.

 

[Mohsen]

Mohsin.......It is incumbent upon those who assert something exists to be required to prove it........Can you prove unicorns or trolls don't exist. Proving the nonexistence of anything is impossible I believe.

Depends on what you define as “proof”. If your definition doesn’t expand beyond empiricism then I can’t prove it... however, if your definition considers more than just empiricism than we can talk - but first - define what you mean by “proof”.

Peace

 

[Mohsen]

And I'm adding further to your scientific sample study if you will. This is actually coming from an atheist. Which I would assume should help your observation in this study.

Atheists hardly make good scientists... and that’s actually from a sample study itself.

Peace

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Atheists simply pretend they don’t care for believing in God but spend most all their free time on forums discussing God!!! Ironic.

I could see how this could be your impression if your only contact with atheists was on discussion boards.

I guarantee that a significant percentage of the people you deal with on a daily basis are atheists, even if they aren't calling attention to it.