Thoughts On Current Wave Of Protest

[esmith]

We have all seen on the news the protest that are occurring after the democratic process of electing a new President. Some of these are peaceful others are basically riots (violence against persons or property). I have no real issue with those that can not accept the results of the election peacefully other than what I am putting forward.

It seems that the majority of the protesters are young. In the past few years the concept of winners and losers has been deemed unacceptable for young children growing up. It has been put forward that there are no losers, everyone is a winner, everyone gets a trophy. In other words they have not be taught that in life not everyone wins. Some have been coddled to think they are "owed", that they can have their "way" and what they want they can have. This in some instances, this idea has been accepted in our institutions of higher learning. The old saying is the "inmates are running the asylum" is not exactly germane to this but it is close. What is going to happen when these "kids" get into the real world and find that life is not fair, some win some lose.

We have seem Obama and Hillary graciously (in public) accept the results of the election. What we have not heard from them is the condemnation of those that are violently protesting. We have not heard from them that even though the protesters candidate did not win, that we as a country must put aside our differences and accept the results. There is nothing that can legally be done to change the results. If they, the protesters, do not like something that is being brought before Congress then they should make their objection heard...peacefully

To those that are Trump supporters....if you are not being gracious winners, you are no better than the losers and in some instances worse. .

 

[Kirran]

While certainly the ways people react aren't always commendable, it is not unreasonable for people to be irritated upon seeing that one candidate wins the popular vote and the other gets in. That isn't democratic.

 

[esmith]

While certainly the ways people react aren't always commendable, it is not unreasonable for people to be irritated upon seeing that one candidate wins the popular vote and the other gets in. That isn't democratic.

Yes it is. That is the way our Constitution is written. If they have a problem with it then all they have to do is get 3/4 of the states to amend the Constitution

 

[columbus]

Yes it is. That is the way tour Constitution is written. If they have a problem with it then all they have to do is get 3/4 of the states to amend the Constitution

No it isn't, it's republican. That's when you vote for representatives then they decide.
And no constitutional amendment is needed to make the presidential election process democratic. We(the USA) is about 2/3 there with state legislation.
NationalPopularvote.com

Tom

 

[idav]

Yes it is. That is the way our Constitution is written. If they have a problem with it then all they have to do is get 3/4 of the states to amend the Constitution

Democracy is about the will of the people, and unless someone has an overwhelming majority I foresee issues, certainly when they didn't even get the majority. Yes 10 states have voted to abolish the electoral college since 2000 but certain states that it favors will fight to keep a rigged system.

 

[Kirran]

Yes it is. That is the way our Constitution is written. If they have a problem with it then all they have to do is get 3/4 of the states to amend the Constitution

The American Constitution isn't an infallible scripture of what constitutes democracy. Just because it's in the Constitution doesn't mean it's democratic.

 

[निताइ dasa]

America is not a democracy (or rather a pure one). A pure democracy has little regard for the fundamental rights which can easily change at the whim of the majority. If people truly understood what a pure democracy meant, very few would support it. That is why no country (or a very small number) practices pure democracy today. Most countries (like Australia and UK) have representative systems which work in a very similar way to the electoral college. This is to ensure that the government (rather the executive body) protects the interests of the population and the states/constituents.

 

[Kirran]

A really pure democracy wouldn't have a governing body. It would be genuinely democratic and based on the decisions of the people from the grassroots level up. Power wouldn't be delegated upwards in the way it is in the currently-prevailing systems.

 

[Kemosloby]

We have all seen on the news the protest that are occurring after the democratic process of electing a new President. Some of these are peaceful others are basically riots (violence against persons or property). I have no real issue with those that can not accept the results of the election peacefully other than what I am putting forward.

It seems that the majority of the protesters are young. In the past few years the concept of winners and losers has been deemed unacceptable for young children growing up. It has been put forward that there are no losers, everyone is a winner, everyone gets a trophy. In other words they have not be taught that in life not everyone wins. Some have been coddled to think they are "owed", that they can have their "way" and what they want they can have. This in some instances, this idea has been accepted in our institutions of higher learning. The old saying is the "inmates are running the asylum" is not exactly germane to this but it is close. What is going to happen when these "kids" get into the real world and find that life is not fair, some win some lose.

We have seem Obama and Hillary graciously (in public) accept the results of the election. What we have not heard from them is the condemnation of those that are violently protesting. We have not heard from them that even though the protesters candidate did not win, that we as a country must put aside our differences and accept the results. There is nothing that can legally be done to change the results. If they, the protesters, do not like something that is being brought before Congress then they should make their objection heard...peacefully

To those that are Trump supporters....if you are not being gracious winners, you are no better than the losers and in some instances worse. .

Won't last long, once Trump gets in he'll build a wall around them.

 

[esmith]

Democracy is about the will of the people, and unless someone has an overwhelming majority I foresee issues, certainly when they didn't even get the majority. Yes 10 states have voted to abolish the electoral college since 2000 but certain states that it favors will fight to keep a rigged system.

The citizens of a state can vote to do away with the Electoral Congress but that means diddle-squat. There are only two paths to amend the Constitution as specified in Article V of the Constitution and a vote of the people is not one of them (directly).

 

[columbus]

The citizens of a state can vote to do away with the Electoral Congress but that means diddle-squat. There are only two paths to amend the Constitution as specified in Article V of the Constitution and a vote of the people is not one of them (directly).

Effectively doing away with the electoral college doesn't require altering the Constitution.
Check out nationalpopularvote. com for complete information.
Tom

 

[Kirran]

The ins and outs of the US system also doesn't establish whether or not it's democratic to elect as leader the candidate who get second-most actual votes.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Protests are good indicator of freedom. It keeps people alert on issues and concerns.


However if things get out of hand it also poorly reflects values and creeds of whatever is being touted.


Tolerance , equanimity, and equality isn't much good for flag waving when It turns into displays intolerance, violence, and one sideness upon being challenged, showing the world ones true colors brought forth through a facade of deception underlying true intent and purpose reaching beyond empty words.

At least true colors are now being flown. It would be interesting, had the results been reversed, if Republicans would have engauged in the same behavior that we see now and those same criticisms levied.

 

[Twilight Hue]

America is not a democracy (or rather a pure one). A pure democracy has little regard for the fundamental rights which can easily change at the whim of the majority. If people truly understood what a pure democracy meant, very few would support it. That is why no country (or a very small number) practices pure democracy today. Most countries (like Australia and UK) have representative systems which work in a very similar way to the electoral college. This is to ensure that the government (rather the executive body) protects the interests of the population and the states/constituents.

It works for smaller populations but as it grows, true democracy tends to fall apart.

While I still support majority opinion, a representative system seems the best so far for countries of this size and scope.


Good post. :0)

 

[Quagmire]

I would guess that a lot if not most of the angst and anger we're seeing right now has less to do with having lost and more to do with who they lost to.

I really don't think we'd be seeing this kind of outcry if the election had been won by, say, Rubio or Cruz.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Yea.

I mean people riot at sports games for crying out loud.....

 

[Parchment]

Democracy is about the will of the people, and unless someone has an overwhelming majority I foresee issues, certainly when they didn't even get the majority. Yes 10 states have voted to abolish the electoral college since 2000 but certain states that it favors will fight to keep a rigged system.

And if Hillary had won? Rigged for who?

 

[columbus]

I don't see this as having much to do with the Demopublicans or Republocrats.
I see it as having mainly to do with the uptick in campaigns for "change by any means". For a tiny slice of the enormous population being manipulated by low information, high emotion, campaigns, violence will be just another means to an end.
I see this as being more a product of #BLM and the Trump campaign. They both do a lot of incitement. They both said that they don't mean violence just often enough to distance themselves from the wackos they incite.
But they do incite people prone to violence and now there is a bunch. I don't think any of it has much to do with the major parties at all.

Tom

 

[SomeRandom]

To be fair, I was taught that there are winners and losers at a young age and I'd riot too if the leader of my country was an orange.

 

[Wirey]

The protesters are whiny, ahem, female dog who would have had a conniption if Hillary had won and some redneck said "She ain't my President". They are the other side of the same coin. Face it, Donald now boss, Hillary go by-by.