Thoughts on the "No atheists in foxholes" argument

[Thief]

by the story line handed down over the centuries....
the Carpenter never doubted His connection to heaven

even in the wilderness as He was tested

but then.....on the cross.....
Where ARE YOU...?????
WHY?.....have YOU forsaken Me.....

seems to me
doubt can follow anyone

even to the last breath

 

[Revoltingest]

cornered and danger near....you would persist?

nothing Greater than yourself

perhaps God and heaven allow the danger

if that is what it takes to open your mind to the possiblity

If danger made us smarter, then perhaps we should make
kids do their math homework at gunpoint in a pit of vipers.
Nah.
I say that being calm & at peace gives the best quality thinking.

As for anything greater than me.
That would be anyone with an IQ over 70.

 

[Thief]

If danger made us smarter, then perhaps we should make
kids do their math homework at gunpoint in a pit of vipers.
Nah.
I say that being calm & at peace gives the best quality thinking.

serenity.....even in war

you have the spirit of the ninja

you haggis eating heathen

 

[Revoltingest]

serenity.....even in war

you have the spirit of the ninja

you haggis eating heathen

I'm no ninja, but I do sometimes were pajamas all day.
In fact, I did today.

 

[Thief]

I'm no ninja, but I do sometimes were pajamas all day.
In fact, I did today.

but were they black?

 

[Revoltingest]

but were they black?

Dark blue.

 

[Thief]

Dark blue.

not bad
you could blend into a crowd easy enough

but does it matter?
in a fox hole

and death is the only way out

 

[Revoltingest]

in a fox hole

and death is the only way out

Fleeing is another way out.

 

[Thief]

Fleeing is another way out.

nay...….

think about the fox hole

or if you prefer......the disease that will someday kill you

 

[oldbadger]

One of the popular arguments used by Christians is that "there are no atheists in foxholes." I recall a man in my childhood church who was fond of using this statement. Now, I think it is highly unlikely that this statement is true. While many people probably do call out to a childhood deity in times of personal crisis, I highly doubt that everyone does. But, for the sake of argument, let's suppose the statement is true, and that everyone who is in a foxhole believes in God. How could this possibly be used as a legitimate argument for the existence of God? Do the Christians who are so fond of making this claim really think that a person in a foxhole is in the best frame of mind to rationally weigh the evidence for and against the existence of God and come to a logical decision? If anything, I would think that people are less rational and more driven toward erroneous and superstitious beliefs when their lives are in danger. Thus, if anything, I would say that the "no atheists in foxholes" argument is a better argument against the existence of God then for it, because people in immediate danger are obviously not going to be thinking as carefully about evidence as people who are in an environment where they have time to rationally and calmly consider arguments for and against the existence of God.

I've lived in many English counties for my 71 years and never ever heard the 'foxhole' maxim, but then my Dad was in the Burma campaign and the rest of my family fought in ships and aircraft, so no foxholes.......... and anyway, as a badger I just think the 'foxhole' maxim is wonky...

Seriously, the 'the atheists in foxholes' maxim is as junk as the 'no Christians in brothels' one..... they're both rubbish.

The truth is that there are many genuine atheists and they would be most likely to call to loved ones, mothers etc in extreme crisis, and that is exactly what so many folks in peril do do.

You should have told the man in your childhood church that theists can call out to their God at any time, but it's a pity that so many forget God when it suits them

 

[PureX]

While these people might be the fools by your estimation, I have literally been told in the past, in response to finding out I'm an atheist, 'We'll see when you're about to die.' It's not meant in a 'you'll lament your loss of control' type of way but in a 'you'll believe in a god then, because everyone secretly believes in a god.'

Let's not react to fools by becoming one.

 

[PureX]

Umm... then why do theists who turn to this always pull it out when face-to-face with an atheist who tells them that they do not believe in God?

There are literally BILLIONS of theists in the world. Please try and get a grip on your bias. They aren't "all" confronting you with their religious delusions. And even those who are, are just misrepresenting their own motivations. And perhaps you ought to check your own.

 

[ChristineM]

Cheese eating inspires surrendering.
OK....that's not all bad.

Only in American pseudo comedy

 

[Revoltingest]

Only in American pseudo comedy

....whence cometh me persona.

 

[ChristineM]

....whence cometh me persona.

Explains all

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Umm... then why do theists who turn to this always pull it out when face-to-face with an atheist who tells them that they do not believe in God?

There are literally BILLIONS of theists in the world. Please try and get a grip on your bias. They aren't "all" confronting you with their religious delusions. And even those who are, are just misrepresenting their own motivations. And perhaps you ought to check your own.

This is just more evidence that you not only don't read, but are COMPLETELY biased yourself. You can't help but see everything an atheist says as being hyperbolically focused, and your "theist"/"spiritual"/"Mr. Wise" bent is out of control.

Note the part in my quote (top above) where I specifically call out the subset of theists "who turn to this" - meaning those that utilize the "no atheists in foxholes" junk statement. Note that my post was specifically targeting those people who use those words. That's all. So get right with your own bias before you go attacking mine. I am willing to admit I am biased. And with theists like you pulling crap like you do constantly, I honestly don't see how I could possibly avoid becoming biased.

 

[viole]

One of the popular arguments used by Christians is that "there are no atheists in foxholes." I recall a man in my childhood church who was fond of using this statement. Now, I think it is highly unlikely that this statement is true. While many people probably do call out to a childhood deity in times of personal crisis, I highly doubt that everyone does. But, for the sake of argument, let's suppose the statement is true, and that everyone who is in a foxhole believes in God. How could this possibly be used as a legitimate argument for the existence of God? Do the Christians who are so fond of making this claim really think that a person in a foxhole is in the best frame of mind to rationally weigh the evidence for and against the existence of God and come to a logical decision? If anything, I would think that people are less rational and more driven toward erroneous and superstitious beliefs when their lives are in danger. Thus, if anything, I would say that the "no atheists in foxholes" argument is a better argument against the existence of God then for it, because people in immediate danger are obviously not going to be thinking as carefully about evidence as people who are in an environment where they have time to rationally and calmly consider arguments for and against the existence of God.

I think the contrary is true. There are only atheists in foxholes.
Or at least people who do not seem to be too anxious to meet their beloved divinity anytime soon.

Anyway, it does not take a lot to realize how self defeating that argument is.

Ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

Interesting, ... my father served in Europe, in the U.S. Army, and participated in the liberation of at least one concentration camp. Months after discharge, in September 1946, he married my mother and enrolled in Concordia Theological Seminary, Springfield, Illinois. He served as an ordained Lutheran-Missouri Synod pastor for 60+ years.

Funny what happens on the battlefield.

Especially if we consider that Luther advertised the slaying of Jews.

Ciao

- viole

 

[PureX]

Note the part in my quote (top above) where I specifically call out the subset of theists "who turn to this" - meaning those that utilize the "no atheists in foxholes" junk statement.

Not all those who use this analogy are using it to substantiate God's existence. In fact, almost none of them are. They are using it to exemplify the human need for something greater and more powerful than themselves to trust in when we lack sufficient ability to control/contain a significant threat. Whether or not God actually exists or would mitigate the threat even if it did is not the point of the scenario.

 

[Terry Sampson]

Especially if we consider that Luther advertised the slaying of Jews. Ciao - viole

Yeah, ... and he'll probably have had to do time in purgatory for that too. Too bad Luther invented antisemitism and genocide. Without those two ideas, there'd have been no WWII, eh?