Three Days and Three Nights

[rstrats]

lostwanderingsoul,

You have a question directed to you in post #292.

 

[rstrats]

Again, this topic is concerned with only 1 issue:

1. The Messiah said that He would be three days and three nights in the "heart of the earth"

2. There are those who think that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week.

3. Of those, there are some who think that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb.

4. A 6th day of the week crucifixion/1st day of the week resurrection allows for only 2 nights to be involved.

5. To account for the lack of a 3rd night, there may be some of those mentioned above who say that the Messiah was employing common figure of speech/colloquial language.

6. I'm simply asking anyone who falls in that group of believers if they might provide examples to support that belief of commonality; i.e., instances where a daytime or a night time was forecast or said to be involved with an event when no part of the daytime and/or no part of the night time could have occurred.

 

[user4578]

I'm simply asking anyone who falls in that group of believers if they might provide examples to support that belief of commonality;

I believe the best answer you are going to get in terms of what you vaguely here are calling commonality was in post #108 by Metis. This is the commonality upon which the phrase is based, not some common idiom. Nonetheless, the closest possible idiom of which I would be aware would be 1 Samuel 30:12, which 'might' align to the specification of the OP, though not necessarily since the Egyptian could have slept without food/drink the first night(logically), but if the phrase started after the Egyptian got sick(1Sa 30:13 - lit. I fell sick three days) then it might be an example of an inclusion of a night to a time period of sickness when he was not actually sick. I adhere however to the first commonality, that is, the set of examples where the day is said to have started and ended at evening, of which set of examples you have already stated is off topic. As far as the characteristic of that night, it was stated elsewhere that perhaps it were the period of darkness which started at noon(cmp. Amos 8:9), which with a few other concessions(Luke 23:43, John 20:1), might be true, but is nonetheless unprovable. I think in the least your query has been answered with regard to the end of day three being attributed to the amount of time he said he would spend in the grave(1Sa 20:18-19;27;35, Mark 8:31), that is, that 'three days' does not necessarily imply 72 hours.

 

[rstrats]

user4578,
re: "I believe the best answer you are going to get in terms of what you vaguely here are calling commonality..."

What is vague about the word?



re: "...was in post #108 by Metis."

Nowhere in his post did he provide examples where a daytime or a night time was said to be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur.



re: "...the closest possible idiom of which I would be aware would be 1 Samuel 30:12, which 'might' align to the specification of the OP, though not necessarily..."

But I'm looking for examples that "necessarily" do align to the specification of the OP. And they don't necessarily have to be from scripture. Any examples from the period will be acceptable.



re: "I think in the least your query has been answered with regard to the end of day three being attributed to the amount of time he said he would spend in the grave(1Sa 20:18-19;27;35, Mark 8:31), that is, that 'three days' does not necessarily imply 72 hours."

I haven't said anything about a 72 hour requirement.

 

[user4578]

a 72 hour requirement

The saying from Jonah would constitute an example of this, the very reason the first night is sought for to complete the phrase. Calendrically speaking, the first night would be included regardless of whether he died that afternoon, as well the end of the third regardless of the fact that he rose when it was 'dark' that morning. There are basically two interpretations then floating around, the calendrical one, and the non-calendrical one, where as in after three days meant after the third day started, not when it ended. Both of them are true, according to their appropriate context; one rounds up, the other tells it how it was. Also at issue here is the definition of what should constitute 'commonality', either the biblical defiinition of a 'day' or the insinuation that the phrase was a 'common' idiom, for which unless a parallel idiom should be found, then it may not be assumed to be properly understood. Supposing one was found, how would it interact with the biblical notion of the length of a day, 'evening to evening'(Lev 23:32); would it not potentially override the idea that his statement in Matthew 12:38-40 was based on this precept? Would it be a parallel idiom that itself would be based on this precept?

 

[rstrats]

Perhaps someone new visiting this topic may know of examples.

 

[paarsurrey]

Again, this topic is concerned with only 1 issue:

1. The Messiah said that He would be three days and three nights in the "heart of the earth"

The period is not the essence of the Sign of Jonah, the essence is not dying and or continue surviving is the essence of Sign of Jonah.

Regards

 

[rstrats]

paarsurrey,
re: "The period is not the essence of the Sign of Jonah, the essence is not dying and or continue surviving is the essence of Sign of Jonah."


That would be an issue for a different topic.

 

[rstrats]

user4578,
re: "...at issue here is the definition of what should constitute 'commonality'..."

More than one instance where a daytime or a night time was forecast or said to be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

user4578,
re: "...at issue here is the definition of what should constitute 'commonality'..."

More than one instance where a daytime or a night time was forecast or said to be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur.

Everything occurs either in daytime or nighttime. Can you explain more about what could occur when no part of a day or night could occur. And you say there are more than one instance of this. Can you give us one or more of these instances?

 

[rstrats]

lostwanderingsoul,
re: "Everything occurs either in daytime or nighttime. Can you explain more about what could occur when no part of a day or night could occur."

I can't. Why do you ask?



re: "And you say there are more than one instance of this. Can you give us one or more of these instances?"

I never said that.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

lostwanderingsoul,
re: "Everything occurs either in daytime or nighttime. Can you explain more about what could occur when no part of a day or night could occur."

I can't. Why do you ask?



re: "And you say there are more than one instance of this. Can you give us one or more of these instances?"

I never said that.

I do believe I can read. Look two posts back and see what you said.

 

[rstrats]

lostwanderingsoul,
re: "I do believe I can read. Look two posts back and see what you said."

I looked back and I don't see where I said that there is more than one instance where a daytime or a night time was forecast or said to be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur. What do you have in mind?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

user4578,
re: "...at issue here is the definition of what should constitute 'commonality'..."

More than one instance where a daytime or a night time was forecast or said to be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur.

Maybe I can't read so I need a better explanation of what this means. How could no part of a daytime or nighttime occur if everything that happens either happens during part of a day or part of a night?

 

[rstrats]

lostwanderingsoul,
re: "Maybe I can't read so I need a better explanation of what this means. How could no part of a daytime or nighttime occur if everything that happens either happens during part of a day or part of a night?"

You're apparently reading "or" as "and".

 

[firedragon]

Testimony from both Jesus and the Apostles about when He rose:

Luke 24:46
Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day,

Acts 10:40
Him God raised up on the third day, and showed Him openly,

1 Corinthians 15:4
and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,

Matthew 17:43
and they will kill Him, and the third day He will be raised up.” And they were exceedingly sorrowful.

Matthew 20:19
and deliver Him to the Gentiles to mock and to scourge and to crucify. And the third day He will rise again.”

Matthew 27:64
Therefore command that the tomb be made secure until the third day, lest His disciples come by night and steal Him away, and say to the people, ‘He has risen from the dead.’ So the last deception will be worse than the first.”

Mark 9:31
For He taught His disciples and said to them, “The Son of Man is being betrayed into the hands of men, and they will kill Him. And after He is killed, He will rise the third day.”

I could go on and on and on, but I'll leave it there. He rose on the third day, meaning:
-First day: The day that the counting starts on
-Second day: One day after that
Third day: Two days after counting is started

[FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA,SANS-SERIF]"A short time in the morning of the seventh day is counted as the seventh day; circumcision takes place on the eighth day, even though, of the first day only a few minutes after the birth of the child, these being counted as one day." Jewish Encyclopedia, Volume 4, page 475.
[/FONT]​

This is a practice known as "inclusive reckoning." You can read more about it in the following links:
Three Days and Three Nights
Orthodox Judaism: Inclusive Reckoning, forty days and forty nights, david rosenblum

IOW, the expression "three days and three nights" is one that can fall into inclusive reckoning.

3 days can find some justification. But not 3 nights.

And your reasoning brother with all due respect is flawed. The one who originally narrated this type of reasoning doesn't have the Jewish system of days. If its 3 days, the day begins at nightfall of the first day and ends just before nightfall the next day. So there could be only two days and two nights. That is counting the first day. If its is indeed Friday.

If your reasoning is that "day and night means one day", then its two full days. And in the jewish system they would never count the night and day. Brother. This is not the way to justify this.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

3 days can find some justification. But not 3 nights.

And your reasoning brother with all due respect is flawed. The one who originally narrated this type of reasoning doesn't have the Jewish system of days. If its 3 days, the day begins at nightfall of the first day and ends just before nightfall the next day. So there could be only two days and two nights. That is counting the first day. If its is indeed Friday.

If your reasoning is that "day and night means one day", then its two full days. And in the jewish system they would never count the night and day. Brother. This is not the way to justify this.

There is NO way to justify it. Nothing says Jesus died on Friday. It says the next day was a sabbath. But the Jews observe a sabbath at the beginning of the Passover celebration. This observence was on Thursday. Jesus died the day before, Wednesday. That leaves three full days and nights before he rose from the grave. And nothing says he rosr on Sunday. When people went to the tomb very early Sunday morning, it was already empty. Jesus could have risen any time before that.

 

[firedragon]

There is NO way to justify it. Nothing says Jesus died on Friday. It says the next day was a sabbath. But the Jews observe a sabbath at the beginning of the Passover celebration. This observence was on Thursday. Jesus died the day before, Wednesday. That leaves three full days and nights before he rose from the grave. And nothing says he rosr on Sunday. When people went to the tomb very early Sunday morning, it was already empty. Jesus could have risen any time before that.

What time did Jesus did?
What day?
What time did he supposedly wake up?
What day?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

What time did Jesus did?
What day?
What time did he supposedly wake up?
What day?

Best guess. Died just before sunset Wednesday. Rose from tomb sometime after sunset Saturday. Three full day and three full nights. What is your best guess?

 

[firedragon]

Best guess. Died just before sunset Wednesday. Rose from tomb sometime after sunset Saturday. Three full day and three full nights. What is your best guess?

So how many days is that?