Throw Grandma in Jail and Throw Away the Key?

[Kenny]

Seems to me that human governments have the wherewithal to exact whatever punishments they deem appropriate for infractions against whatever laws they have thought fit to enact.

If the "Ruler of the universe" lacks that ability, that's His own problem. Don't try to run everything if you haven't got the means to do it, would be my advice to Him.

How can you say "Ruler of the universe" lacks that ability, that's His own problem." when you don't believe there is even a Ruler of the universe?

That being said, His wisdom is far higher than our wisdom (as can be easily seen), His mercy far greater than our mercy (as noted with the 'throw grandma in jail' mantra, and His ways are far better than our ways (just look at our world)

 

[Kenny]

What is your argument that she shouldn't get a sentence? All you offer here is that you don't like it. Who cares?

She broke the law, she went to court, she got a sentence. What's wrong with that?

i think I was pretty clear in the OP, especially since right after In Christ expressed it equally with other words.
\
The point is how upset people are about how mean God is and yet it is obvious, imv, that mankind is the mean ones.

 

[Secret Chief]

Your post really sounded suspect... then I figure out why:

Dan Abrams Site Mediaite: Just as Liberal as ABC News, But Meaner

You will have to do better than that, my friend.

So will you. Motes in eyes and all that.

• "Overall, we rate Newsbusters Right Biased based on story selection that always favors the right. We also rate them borderline questionable due to the use of poor sources and numerous failed fact checks. One additional failed fact check will push this source by default onto the Questionable list."
• 
  - https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/newsbusters/

 

[Kenny]

Let God be true and every man a liar as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

Well said!!

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

How can you say "Ruler of the universe" lacks that ability, that's His own problem." when you don't believe there is even a Ruler of the universe?

That being said, His wisdom is far higher than our wisdom (as can be easily seen), His mercy far greater than our mercy (as noted with the 'throw grandma in jail' mantra, and His ways are far better than our ways (just look at our world)

Yes, just look at our world ----- which according to your belief, is his creation.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I cry out for mercy but "no" is the answer.

Mercy is what you have the right to offer when only you were violated. If one steal from just me, I can be merciful and forgive him if I choose. If he has stolen from several people, no one can legitimately and unilaterally offer mercy.

Courts should not be merciful. They should be just. Being older or having cancer aren't relevant. Having a clean record is, but not enough to get a sentence down to zero days. This woman got a fair sentence, and many people who expect that would feel cheated by a government that forgave her without consulting them. Imagine how the average person would feel if the court showed mercy on his wife or son's murderer because they were old or had cancer or had never committed a serious crime before, and just gave them probation on the basis that they were repentant and probably learned a lesson. If you understand why such a person would feel cheated and resentful of a government that forgave a crime against him without his blessings, then you can understand him having a similar feeling about forgiving people who defiled what he considers sacred.

voice insurrection against the Government of God, but it is wrong if those who are against God receive a sentence?

You want people sentenced for not obeying what Christians thinks their god commands? Are you not seeing the consequences now of enforcing "the government of God" on people who don't believe in that god?

God Himself that says "I want to give mercy -- please receive it. I don't want anyone to perish!"

The Christian god is not an exemplar of mercy any more than an abusive husband who says obey me or die is merciful for sparing her when she complies. Christianity depicts this relationship as loving and merciful, but humanism doesn't.

I have a friend who had a serious injury to her hand two years ago. She had the first two surgeries of three. She has not been able to get the third surgery because her hand surgeon specialist is in jail. This has affected many other patients, as well. He was arrested while walking to his car on January 6th and has been in jail ever since. He did not enter the Capital, nor was he anywhere near the building area where the rioting occurred.

That story isn't credible, but let's stipulate that it occurred. What's your point? That somebody was in the wrong place in the wrong time and was mistakenly arrested?

He simply seems to be asking why people are so okay with harshly punishing those who are thought to be insurrectionists against human governments (in this case the US government) yet many see no problem or inconsistency with revolting against the Ruler of the universe.

Maybe because many people don't believe that the universe or they have a ruler. Why wouldn't they consider the one government real and legitimate and the other neither? Why wouldn't they resent the one they can see and which they live under being attacked? Why should they resent the other being unenforced by the law? Freedom of and from religion forbids enforcing religious doctrine.

 

[F1fan]

How do you know that? According to the scriptures, God patiently waited hundreds of years ( approximately 120) before bringing judgment upon the increasingly wickedness of earth’s inhabitants by the flood.

Only 120 years? To God that is nothing as far as time goes. And isn't God supposedly beyond time?

And further, why didn't God create humans in a way that they weren't such screwups? Didn't God have knowledge of how humans would act in ways it did not want as he created them, or did God lay dice with creation? To my mind it sounds like bad parents who did a poor job renting and then could not tolerate the offspring and ended up killing them. That would be a crime if a human did it, but it is patient and merciful in your interpretation?

God waited year after year, and and warned through Noah decade after decade “while the ark was being prepared” (1 Peter 3:20).

And one last thing, the flood fixed nothing. Humans still were screw ups, and to such a degree that he had to impregnate a woman so he could kill the son as a sacrifice to himself so he could forgive the sins of mankind. Blu addresses this absurdity. God can't just fix things with a snap of his fingers?

 

[F1fan]

What candidates don’t have ethical failings?

Look at the topic of this thread where crimes and punishments are being considered. Minor crimes are less severe. Major crimes are more severe and require higher punishments. The same with ethics failings. A politician who might tell minor lies about policies is not uncommon. They want to sell their ideas and they will be somewhat misleading about details at times. This is acceptable.

Trump is a chronic liar, and conman, and being investigated for numerous crimes. Yet he is still popular. Contrast decent and acceptable politicians with politicans who are lying about Trump winning the 2020 election, like Blake Masters and Kari Lake in Arizona. That is unacceptable and they are not fit. Lets hope these republican extremists will lose in the general election because we the people deserve better than liars and frauds like these two. Republican voters deserve better than liars and frauds. Don't you agree?

 

[Callisto]

So we are back to opening prisons by 300% because there is no such thing a a "small infraction" whether antithetical to patriotism or antithetical to a country of laws and then letting it blow up in their faces.

As for God... He has a Kingdom which, by the definition, means that there is a government and there are laws. So, as I said, the King has every right to then judge humanity and it isn't humanity's right to judge the King. He just enforces the rules with much more mercy and grace than what we humans do.

There is no small infraction when people are intent on destroying the country. This woman was not an innocent bystander nor is she some frail, sweet old lady who shouldn't receive consequences for her actions. No prior record doesn't imply anything other than she's never been arrested before now. She was fit enough to be there and chose to stay when it was evident things were escalating, someone who was too old and sick would have left, at the very least, for their own safety. A person who wasn't there to support a violent overthrow would have realized this was not what they signed on for and left.

Your god's kingdom has nothing to do with this nor does his judgment. If it did, it would reflect poorly on him considering the despicable, hateful, violence so many of his adherents wantonly and mercilessly engaged in, left unchecked by any divine rule. So, let's keep things in their proper context, yes? The presiding laws over this manmade event is manmade laws. If some higher power cared and wanted to intervene then either it chose not to despite the hateful acts done in the name of making 'Merica! a "Christian nation"...

... or, to be fair, perhaps it did intervene by clearing the way for some of these cretins to face the initial consequences of their actions. If so, she's not so sweet and innocent just reaped a bit of what she sowed. But perhaps she and others can eventually be on the side of good if this helps them see the error of their ways. His mercy being to have them face human justice now so if any of them do actually have a shred of decency, they'll learn from this and stop letting their irrational hatred dominate their lives.

edited typos

 

[Kenny]

Hmm.

If the bible is any guide, God's mercy is the exception, not the rule. I've never understood, for instance, why it was necessary for Jesus to be crucified before God was prepared to forgive sins.

Actually no.

Revelation 13:8\eally. this isn't a magic wand.

And of course it was the God of the bible who said,

Deuteronomy 7:1-2 “When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations...then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them and show them no mercy."

Yes... their bodies were destroyed... have you searched out why?

Regardless... looking at grandmas et al, we are worse IMV.

 

[InChrist]

'Fact-checking the pedophilia attacks against Joe Biden
IF YOUR TIME IS SHORT

• There is no credible evidence that supports this claim. In Joe Biden’s more than 40 years of public life, we could find no news reports, formal accusations, complaints, arrests or investigations that implicate him in any sort of sex crimes involving kids.'

Source: PolitiFact - Fact-checking the pedophilia attacks against Joe Biden

In short the images allegedly of Biden touching children inappropriately are in reality taken out of context or have been edited to incorrectly suggest something improper.

I won't ask you to read the article, but I will point out that bearing false witness is a sin according to the Bible.

In my opinion.

I read the article. I don’t consider PolitiFact an unbiased or reliable source. Irregardless, I didn’t say Biden is a pedophile. I said it’s creepy the way he touches kids and whispers in their ears. You can watch the C-span footage yourself. It’s not been altered, as the article implies.

 

[InChrist]

Look at the topic of this thread where crimes and punishments are being considered. Minor crimes are less severe. Major crimes are more severe and require higher punishments. The same with ethics failings. A politician who might tell minor lies about policies is not uncommon. They want to sell their ideas and they will be somewhat misleading about details at times. This is acceptable.

Trump is a chronic liar, and conman, and being investigated for numerous crimes. Yet he is still popular. Contrast decent and acceptable politicians with politicans who are lying about Trump winning the 2020 election, like Blake Masters and Kari Lake in Arizona. That is unacceptable and they are not fit. Lets hope these republican extremists will lose in the general election because we the people deserve better than liars and frauds like these two. Republican voters deserve better than liars and frauds. Don't you agree?

I don’t even know who Blake Masters or Karl Lake are. So I’m sorry I can’t automatically agree. I’ll have to research them before agreeing with you and concluding they are liars or extremists.

 

[SkepticThinker]

What is your argument that she shouldn't get a sentence? All you offer here is that you don't like it. Who cares?

She broke the law, she went to court, she got a sentence. What's wrong with that?

She's a "granny" though!

Sheesh, I wasn't aware that grannies are allowed to commit crimes with impunity. When I become a granny, I think I'm going to rob a bank.

 

[InChrist]

Only 120 years? To God that is nothing as far as time goes. And isn't God supposedly beyond time?

And further, why didn't God create humans in a way that they weren't such screwups? Didn't God have knowledge of how humans would act in ways it did not want as he created them, or did God lay dice with creation? To my mind it sounds like bad parents who did a poor job renting and then could not tolerate the offspring and ended up killing them. That would be a crime if a human did it, but it is patient and merciful in your interpretation?


And one last thing, the flood fixed nothing. Humans still were screw ups, and to such a degree that he had to impregnate a woman so he could kill the son as a sacrifice to himself so he could forgive the sins of mankind. Blu addresses this absurdity. God can't just fix things with a snap of his fingers?

For humans 120 years is a long time. It’s a long time for God to allow humans to perpetuate wickedness to throughout the earth.
Obviously, if God is omniscient as the scriptures show Him to be, then He KNOWS the way He designed human beings is the best way to do so. Sure God could have designed robotic beings that never screw up, but that doesn’t appear to His plan. The scriptures state God is Love. Humans had to be endowed with freedom to choose in order to love. There is no absurdity at all.

 

[InChrist]

None of course. It's a matter of where one draws the line.

Yes, that’s right and everyone draws the line differently for a variety of reasons.

 

[Secret Chief]

Yes, that’s right and everyone draws the line differently for a variety of reasons.

They do. On a related note, in my experience a lot of people view politicians as if they are a different species to us non-politicians. All the negatives we ascribe to politicians are the same traits in all of us. I don't need to be a politician to be a serial fibber. Nor does anyone else, we all tell at least the odd porkie I'm sure. Did I mention your hair looks great today?

 

[InChrist]

The way to read and comprehend the books of the bible is to approach them with historical method, the same as you'd approach any other ancient document. In each case what, where, when, who, why? What corroboration exists in other texts or in archaeology for what is reported? If the document's argument is accepted, who benefits?

And so on.

When we first meet the bible God in archaeology, [he]'s a tribal God in the Canaanite pantheon and it appears that as is usual [he] has a consort, Asherah. When we first meet the bible God in the bible, that's no longer the case, but [he]'s still just one of many Canaanite gods. That's why the commandment says you shall not have any gods BEFORE him, and doesn't say, Ain't no other gods. And there's ─

Judges 11;24 Will you not possess what Chemosh your god gives you to possess? And all that the LORD our God has dispossessed before us, we will possess.
​

and

Psalms 82:1 God has taken his place in the divine council;
in the midst of the gods he holds judgment.

Psalms 86:8 There is none like thee among the gods, O Lord,
nor are there any works like thine.

Psalms 95:3 For the Lord is a great god,
and a great King above all gods.
​

As you know, the assertion that your god is better than their god is called "henotheism".

Not till after the Babylonian capitivity does God get to be the only god.

Not till Christianity does [he] become two gods, on the one hand remaining the Jewish God and on the other becoming the distinct Christian God, who, thanks in no small part to Paul, no long requires the Jewish covenant of circumcision to be observed.

Not until the 4th century, when the Trinity doctrine is adopted, does the Christian god become triune (notwithstanding that in the NT the Jesus of Paul, the Jesus of Mark, the Jesus of Matthew, the Jesus of Luke and the Jesus of John each expressly deny they're God, and would have looked silly had they not, praying "If it be my will, let this cup pass from me" for instance).

And now we have the Jesus of the Mormons, the Jesus of the Rastafarians, and the Jesuses of the very many (tens of thousands, the net suggests) distinct Christian sects.

The way God is the same yesterday today and tomorrow is in the way [he] keeps changing.

I have to disagree with your perspective on the God of the Biblical scriptures. God’s triune Nature has been consistent throughout the Bible, as well the physical creation...

“In Romans:1:20
Paul argues that God's "eternal power and Godhead" are seen in the creation He made. God's eternal power—but His Godhead? Yes, as Dr. Wood pointed out years ago in The Secret of the Universe, the triune nature of God is stamped on His creation. The cosmos is divided into three: space, matter and time. Each of these is divided into three. Space, for instance, is composed of length, breadth and width, each separate and distinct in itself, yet the three are one. Length, breadth and width are not three spaces, but three dimensions comprising one space. Run enough lines lengthwise and you take in the whole. But so it is with the width and height. Each is separate and distinct, yet each is all of space—just as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is each God.

Time also is a trinity: past, present and future—two invisible and one visible. Each is separate and distinct, yet each is the whole. Man himself is a triunity of spirit, soul and body, two of which are invisible, one visible. Many more details could be given of the Godhead's triunity reflected in the universe. It can hardly be coincidence.”
(quoted from linked article below)


I think the following article addresses all the points you’ve brought up, if you care to read it.


The Trinity

 

[SkepticThinker]

I read the article. I don’t consider PolitiFact an unbiased or reliable source. Irregardless, I didn’t say Biden is a pedophile. I said it’s creepy the way he touches kids and whispers in their ears. You can watch the C-span footage yourself. It’s not been altered, as the article implies.

How do you know it hasn't been altered? Did you create the video?

 

[Secret Chief]

She's a "granny" though!

Sheesh, I wasn't aware that grannies are allowed to commit crimes with impunity. When I become a granny, I think I'm going to rob a bank.

Hey, I'm old enough to be a grandpa. Just nipping out to ram-raid a shop.

 

[danieldemol]

I read the article. I don’t consider PolitiFact an unbiased or reliable source. Irregardless, I didn’t say Biden is a pedophile. I said it’s creepy the way he touches kids and whispers in their ears.

What is creepy about it *in context*?

You can watch the C-span footage yourself. It’s not been altered, as the article implies.

How do you know that it is a)in context and b)un edited.

In my opinion.