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To All Non-Theists:

Were you a theist? On a scale of 1-10, please select which one mostly applies to you.

  • 8-10 (I was a fundementally devout believer)

    Votes: 2 13.3%
  • 5-7 (I was a firm believer)

    Votes: 4 26.7%
  • 2-4 (I was noncommital in my beliefs)

    Votes: 4 26.7%
  • 0-1 (I was always skeptical)

    Votes: 5 33.3%

  • Total voters
    15
  • Poll closed .

Cynic

Well-Known Member
What caused you to become skeptical about the existance of God? Please elaborate, if you will.

A simple answer might be, "a lack of evidense". However, in the questioning of my beliefs, it was not just a lack of evidense, but it was the sum of many things which inevitably led to my skepticism.
 

Pah

Uber all member
Cynic said:
What caused you to become skeptical about the existance of God? Please elaborate.
The final begining was the inconsistencies I saw in the "born again" movement in which I was very active. I found no new spiritual material but just a re-hash of what I learned as a child. I proceded from an overriding sense that "love made the world go round" , a humanistic thought, to a leap that God was that love. Having "established" God in my life again, it was an easy step to bring Christ back and accept a reality of the devil. But even the gifts of the Spirit were not sufficient to "cleanse" the conflict other Christians of fervent faith presented. Ocassional study, over a long period of time convinced me where God was or came from. Increasing knowledge of confilcting Christianity and a growing understanding of the human creation of God (or divinity in general) places me in today. That's the ups and downs of my second spiritual journey.
 

cmotdibbler

Member
I was always skeptical. During campouts in Cub Scouts if you didn't attend the camp "church service" on Sundays you ended up working in the kitchen. Normally, kitchen patrol (KP) was used as a punishment. Didn't go to that many weekend campouts but always did the KP duty on Sundays.

We attended an Episcopal church off and on growing up. But a huge part of my skeptic thought came from reading the Bible itself. There are so many absurdities (talking snakes and donkeys, Genesis, Exodus, Flood, etc) that even as a kid I could dispense with the OT.
But the NT has it's own absurdities. What happened to the other resurrected people (Lazurus, the girl, all the saints who came from their tombs)? Did they have extraordinary lives after coming back? Why did nobody else write about them? Why didn't they write about themselves?
In Acts or Romans they were always talking about the return of Christ and I had the impression they were talking about a few months or a couple of years, not two thousand years! Still no Jesus.

So all in all, as a kid I realized that the bible was a collection of stories just like any other religion or myth. For me religion, particularly Christianity, is Santa Claus for grown ups except
with weapons. Sure, there are moral lessons in the Bible and I'm sure they are in the Quran, Vedas as well. But the bar for morality seems to be set pretty low.

Since my wife is Christian I go to church every Sunday. If anything, attending service has reinforced my "lack" of belief.
 

Dayv

Member
I'm not really a non-theist, but I don't really believe anything 100%. I've always had a fondness for nature and one of the biggest things that kept coming back to me when I was Catholic (a rather devoute one, too, top of the conformation class, priest's favorite) was the whole thing about god creating humanity in his image, it just sounded like early people trying to hype up humanity and make it okay for them to do whatever they want with the earth. That was probably one of the first factors, and it just built up from there. The church always seems to be adjusting its docturine to fit current attitudes, and the way so much of it goes against logic and science. What little spirituality I do have is largely guided by science, as I believe that religion and science are one in the same, and any religion that so completely disagrees with science is probably way off.

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind"
-Albert Einstein
 

Ryan2065

Well-Known Member
All the contridctions in the bible. Also one day it just hit me. I was thinking about all the old gods that the greeks and the romans had to explain a number of things and I just realized, religion is only around to explain the things that people think there is no explanation for. Once when you see that you realize that beliving in god touched your life is no different than believing an alien probed you.
 

Jaymes

The cake is a lie
I was raised in a Southern Baptist household, and for the first 10 or so years of my life my mom took us to a strict church most every Sunday. The only thing I really remember about it was that it was superbly boring and that it helped convince me dresses were evil, evil things.

On and off from 11 to 14 I participated in youth oriented church events, which was when my faith started to sputter. I started realizing I'd never felt what other people seemed to feel when they talked about God, and thought something was wrong with me, that I just wasn't trying hard enough. That continued on until I was 15, upon which I started to really learn of paganism.

Shortly after I switched my religious beliefs and got into a "WAAAH CHRISTIANS ARE EEEEVIL" phase. I'm glad to report I grew out of that. ;) After a year or so I realized I didn't feel any of these gods, either, and fiddled around in Wicca and Asatru. When neither of those worked I reverted to basic 'something kinda paganish,' then through RF learned about Taoism. Since I've stopped trying to tell myself 'there are God(s/esses)! You need to look for them!' my belief in any higher power has steadily gone downhill until it got to where it is now: 'If there's anything out there, it either can't or won't care about us.'
 

Yerda

Veteran Member
Cynic said:
What caused you to become skeptical about the existance of God? Please elaborate, if you will.
Nobody ever gave a reason to believe in gods.

"If we accept Jesus then we can get into heaven!"

"But my dad says Jesus and heaven aren't real"

"That's what Satan wants you to think"

"My dad says Satan isn't real"

"Listen, if you don't accept Jesus you'll go to hell"

"But my dad says..."

"Oh shut up Scott and go read a book or something."
 

Engyo

Prince of Dorkness!
My answer is somewhere in between Biblical inconsistencies, human hypocracies, my scientific bent, and the basic problem that no matter how sincerely I tried to practice Christianity, I couldn't feel it working.
 

Cynic

Well-Known Member
I was introduced to Christianity at a very young age. My parents gave me a biblical name with the intentions that I would someday be a minister, and so my beliefs were very much influenced by them. I never associated myself with a certain denomination. My parents would hop churches, everytime a problem arose, which was quite often. Moving on, I accepted jesus at age 12. For a long while, I was a very devout Christian, as I was planning on fulfilling my parents wishes. At around 18, the repetitive messages were not spiritually satisfying for me, and some things were not making sense. My interpretation of the biblical message was a bit different, and I simply found myself in disagreement with Christian theology. I believed that all sin was the same in God's eyes, whether that was a lie or a murder, and this was because I saw similarities hidden in the motives, before we even commit a sin. I saw selfishness. It's not that selfishness is an ethical issue, as driven by survival. But it becomes an ethical issue when the self interest of an individual takes unecassary precedence, to the point that it causes harm and suffering on the lives of others. Sin to me, was not commited externally, but internally. It originated within the heart, it originated with a motive. Rebirth, to me, was a change of one's heart, a change of mind, a change of motives. It's to become selfless. The death of Jesus to me, was the epitome of selflessness. I didn't believe that it supernaturally washed away my sins, I believed that being "saved" took effort on my part, and what I was being saved from was myself, my own selfish heart. Following this personal ideology, I would analyze people's motives, and I found myself alone, caught in a world where people were completely motivated by self interest, even when it came to self-conduct.

I didn't agree with "pay tithe or you're succeptible to hell". I didn't believe in saving people so Jesus will come sooner. I didn't believe in, "accept Jesus so you can go to heaven". I didn't believe in "do good works so you can go to heaven". I didn't see any differences between this and self-bribery. I saw the adulteration of works with self-interest, where our survival becomes our every motive. When I saw Christianity (no offense), I saw people who were only concerned with themselves and the meaningless dogma entertwined. I saw what I thought was falsity and corruption.

Following this was my digression from Christianity. I began studying different religions, Buddhism, Hinduism, Muslim, Taoism, Judaism, you name it. I found other religions to be more compatible with my beliefs, such as Buddhism. Not too long afterwards, I began studying evolution, psychology, neurology, astronomy and other scientific fields. Science gave me a more profound understanding of nature, and I felt it was more compelling, because it explained things wherease religion didn't. As faith and spirituality began to subside, logic and reason compensated. At age 20, I became agnostic, which is where I still stand as of today. And of course, I also abandoned my ideology.
 

Cynic

Well-Known Member
could a moderator move this thread? It's not a debate, but a discussion, so I think it would be more fitting to place it in "General Discussion", or "Non-Theists Only".
 

ch'ang

artist in training
I guess I lost faith when I actually started to question Christianity instead of living in peacful ignorance, and once you find one hole in Christian thinking you go on until you find them all
 

Jaymes

The cake is a lie
Sorry it got so long to get around to your request; thread moved. :)

EDIT: Got? What the heck, I meant 'took.' Man my brain's fried today. :biglaugh:
 
I voted "I was always skeptical".

I say this because, even though I did used to be Christian, I realized that neither I nor anyone else "knew" any of this stuff for sure, and I questioned a lot. I thought very often "what if I'm wrong?" What if I'd been born to Muslim parents, went to a Mosque every week as a child, and grew up in a predominantly Muslim society? Sure, I had "faith" in God and Jesus, but if things had been different, I would have had "faith" in a different set of religious dogmas. I could not see any reason to have faith in one religion over another, since no one knows which one is correct.

I also always loved science. I watched nature shows a lot on TV, and I paid close attention to the implications of things I learned in school. I remember in gradeschool we watched this educational video about how commercials and marketing gives people the impression that various toys/products are better than they actually are. Then in the 8th grade, the greatest teacher I have ever had taught us about skepticism, and why scientists must be skeptics. He even tricked me and the rest of my classmates into thinking that this green stuff he showed us came from the Moon, just to demonstrate why we must be skeptical of all claims, even claims made by authority figures. He showed us the "Amazing" Randi's videos, too, which showed me the appalling ability people have to decieve themselves into believing in fantasies. We also learned about dinosaurs, the traits raptors shared with modern birds, geology and plate tectonics, the solar system and its origins/evolution, and the history of science (including the trial of Galileo and the destruction of the Library of Alexandria). The thing I loved most about that class was that my teacher did not just teach us things, he taught us about the evidence which supports them.

In high school, I went to a wonderful Catholic school and in theology studied the New Testament, Church history, and then social issues/morality senior year. I had pretty much already dismissed the Old Testament as spiritual, valuable, but historically/scientifically inaccurate folklore. It was during high school that I realized I felt the same way about the New Testament. I struggled with these thoughts, because I did not want to abandon the values and morals I had grown to appreciate. Eventually, however, I realized that I would agree that we should love our neighbors *whether or not* Jesus was the Son of God; furthermore, I realized that murder was wrong *whether or not* Jesus/the Bible said it was wrong to murder. I decided that the Resurrection--like so many other stories in the Bible--was most certainly myth.

My junior year in high school I was still a theist, however. But I did not believe in an afterlife, really, or spirits. I was pretty convinced that scientific inquiry had shown that we are equivalent to our brains. I had, for a long time, thought about god as impersonal, rather than personal. (I simply could not see any way of knowing the traits of a 'personal' god.) I eventually equated 'god' to the sum of everything in existence. I was a Kairos leader my senior year of high school, and when my initial speech was rejected because of these "atheist ideas" I was hurt. I felt like I had let my teachers (for whom I had the upmost respect) down.

It didn't take long for me to realize that my teacher was right, that I was basically an atheist. (After all, if god = nature, why refer to 'god' at all? Why not just stick with 'nature'?) It was only then that I really felt satisfied: all the cognitive dissonance that I felt as a result of trying to reconcile my faith with my skeptical view of the world vanished. Suddenly, things started to make a lot more sense. No wonder we have disease, and hunger, and war; no wonder the stories in the Bible sound as far-fetched as the stories in Greek mythology; it's because there are no gods controlling things, there's just a universe, a universe which does what it does with neither sympathy nor contempt for us human beings or other organisms.

I had believed that having faith made people feel better about life in general; that may be true for some people, but I was surprised to find out that this is not true for me. The whole "this is all there is" phrase which other people dread does not bother me one bit. I think the people who do dread that phrase take for granted this life and all it has to offer. We're all awfully lucky to have even been born at all.....to expect an additional life after this one seems a bit self-centered. We're just not that important. I'm happy with reality as I understand it: even without ghosts and spirits and gods, and even with suffering and sadness and despair, I'm still awfully glad to be here.

*edit: I almost forgot about good ol' David Hume and the other philosophers my classmates and I studied in European History. I loved Hume's essay on miracles (I forget what it was called), though it wasn't until later that I applied this skepticism to New Testament miracles. *
 

matey

Member
I'm not really a non-theist, I still believe in a God or Higher being. But I don't really hold to any religion. I can relate to what Cynic and Mr_Spinkles said.

Being raised Roman Catholic, I got the impression that all other religions were "wrong" and you'd go to Hell if you did not believe in God/Jesus and you did not follow all the rules. And living in the world we live in, that seemed wrong. How could an Aboriginee or a Bushman of Africa go to Hell for not believing in something he never heard of? It gave me a sense of absurdity. How could there be so many different religions which are all wrong and their followers would go to Hell for not believing in the religion which I'm a part of? Why am I so lucky to be in the One True Religion?
What happens if I steal an apple from a store and upon walking out, get hit by a car? Do I go to Hell? It got to the point where I was like, "phuck it, I'll go to Hell, I don't want to be in Heaven if I'll be sent to Hell for such ridiculous things".

To many questions and absurdities were raised by my thinking about the finer details of my religion. But, I didn't totally drop my faith, I adjusted it. Instead of getting caught up in the details, I focused on being a better person while still having fun as I grew up. I figured that the whole point of religion was just to make you a better person. (How could it actually be true that if you die with one little sin, you go to Hell? I know a sin is a sin is a sin, but come on, get real.) But I know it goes deeper than being a better person.

I also live in the Age of Science, just like most other people do(there are still primitives out in the jungles), or just like everyone does, depending on how you look at it. And science is what made possible the fact that I can know about religions all around the world. So how could it be that there is only one true religion? Why is it that the so-called followers of this religion waged Holy Wars against non-believers centuries ago(Inquisition or Crusades)? It seemed that something was wrong. People used religion to gain power over the people. It didn't make total sense to me. And that's why I view religion as a personal matter not to be imposed onto others. Share your views, share your love, but don't don't force it.

I still consider myself religious, I just don't subscribe to any particular religion, it wouldn't make much sense to me. And after seeing a PBS program "The Power of the Myth" with Joseph Campbell interviewed by Bill Moyers, I was like, "wow man" that makes so much sense.

There's so much more, but that's all I can put together right now.

And I'm still a work in progress and probaly always will be 'til I die (and who knows *** happens after that:eek:)
 

drekmed

Member
i voted "i was a firm believer"

i was raised southern/independant baptist. this is what my father is and he forced us all to go. my entire 14 years i went to church every sunday morning and night, every wednesday night, and every single night a revival service might have happened during a week. when i was young, 5 or 6 after hearing the stories told in sunday school and church and being an impretional mind at that age, i accepted jesus as my personal savior. through age 9, i continued to believe and absorb everything that the preacher and sunday school teachers said as fact, i had never been exposed to an opposing view. i was going to the school that is run by the church we attended, and every subject was laced with christianity; creationism was the only thing i had known about, math was a gift from God so people could more effectively communicate the quantity of what they needed, history was about how other nations and philosophies had failed or came about because of the influence of satan on those people and our nation had risen because of the divine influence of God. hell the salem witch hunts were even justified by this class due to the puritans doing God's will.

due to a disagreement with the person that was my 3rd grade teacher, and she was going to be my 4th grade teacher, my parents decided that i could go to public school for 4th grade. now prior to this i had never been directly exposed to anything but a christian viewpoint, and had been told, rather firmly, that every other religion was completely wrong and those people were going to hell, and it was the christian's responsibility to do anything possible to get these non-believers to believe in christ, even if it meant doing things that might not be accepted by them and even hurt them because they are hethenous sinners, and once they see the light they will realise its was for their own good and will thank us for it.

so when i was introduced to the public school system, i was of the mind set that all people that weren't baptists were evil. fortunately i found this to be false within the first week and decided i wouldn't attempt to sway these good kids from their views since they didn't seem bad to me, my best friend was a jehovahs witness, which my church bashed constantly. it took a week to undo something that had been pounded into my head, but alas i didn't realise yet the errors of my ways, and continued to be firm in my beliefs until i was 15, even though i grew tired of the monotony of going to church all the time and hearing the exact same messages repeated on a 6 months schedule.

at the age of 15 i was kicked out of my sunday school class for, now get this, not appearing to listen to the teacher and refusing to pray or read from the bible out loud. due to the embarrassment my parents felt over the incedent they stopped forcing me to go to church. i then began to realise that i was happier when i wasn't ever going to church than i had been at any time that i had gone to church. as nice as this was it confused me because i had been taught things would be different, i then began to question the other things i had been taught, and doing a lot of thinking. i became quite angry that way i actually felt went completely against what i had been taught all those years by people that i had trusted, i resented my parents for forcing things on me that i found false and hated christianity because i felt it made me this way.

at age 17 i realized that what i hated was myself for allowing myself to be mislead all those years, that it wasn't the religion or my parents fault, they were simply doing what things based on how they were raised. i continued to hate myself and generally dislike people that were christian and and still was biased against the people of other religions for a few years, simply because i had been taught that my entire life, for a few more years until after i joined the military. this is were i met someone who was wiccan for the first time in my life, he made a huge impact on me. we had many conversations while at work, i was posted with him often and we worked for 12 hours a day. after the first week or so of us talking about nothing in general, the conversations turned towards religion. it was the first time i had really talk to anybody outside of church about religion and was very interested about his views on things, and realised that i shared some of them. now to emphasize the importance of this person on how i am now is not easy for me to put into words, but the results were that i no longer hated any religion for their beliefs, i didn't hate myself any longer either. what really surprised me at first was that he never once attempted to force wicca on me, i now know why he didn't.

now at the age of 23 i am much more open minded, about everything. i no longer have a grudge against the church in which i was raised or my parents for making go to it, i am the way i am because of those experiences whether they were good or bad, and i feel that i am a much better person, because i now see things from both the point of view of the religious, and those that aren't.

drekmed
 

Cynic

Well-Known Member
drekmed said:
now at the age of 23 i am much more open minded, about everything. i no longer have a grudge against the church in which i was raised or my parents for making go to it, i am the way i am because of those experiences whether they were good or bad, and i feel that i am a much better person, because i now see things from both the point of view of the religious, and those that aren't.

drekmed
Nice ending. I don't have anything against Christianity either, although I went through a period of "Christians are evil", as explained in my post. I know that almost all who replied talked about negetive experiences with Christianity, and I just wanted to state that despite my change of beliefs, I've also had wonderful experiences with Christianity.
 
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