To Non-Christians: What are your thoughts on Jesus and Early Christianity?

[George-ananda]

This is asking what do you think really happened (as opposed to just what you don't believe).

I mean opinions like Jesus never existed; existed but got distorted; existed but a fraud/hoaxer; had miraculous events; had no miraculous events, not enough information to judge, etcetera.

Also what are your thoughts on the earliest Christians including the apostles and eyewitnesses like St. Peter? Hoaxed? Hoaxers? Errant well-meaning? Got it right to the best of their abilities? Under the influence of a charismatic leader? What?

 

[George-ananda]

I'll go first as a non-Christian myself.

I think Jesus was a highly advanced soul that came to earth with a mission to teach. He likely performed miracles and made post-mortem appearances to His disciples. He studied in the Himalayan region during His 'missing years' and probably had deeper knowledge than the masses could rightly grasp but probably held deeper teachings with a select few. I think the early Church was lead by well-meaning (but not inerrant) followers who were galvanized by experiences of love and the miraculous.

I am not Christian but pro- sensible Christianity. I think deeper and more satisfying teachings exist in the eastern/Indian tradition and those are the teachings I identify with.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

This is asking what do you think really happened (as opposed to just what you don't believe).

I mean opinions like Jesus never existed; existed but got distorted; existed but a fraud/hoaxer; had miraculous events; had no miraculous events, not enough information to judge, etcetera.

Also what are your thoughts on the earliest Christians including the apostles and eyewitnesses like St. Peter? Hoaxed? Hoaxers? Errant well-meaning? Got it right to the best of their abilities? Under the influence of a charismatic leader? What?

My opinion is that Jesus existed. He was a teacher just as other people who have high devotional lifestyles and missions. In regards to miracles, my opinion? Anything that defies the laws of nature cannkt happen regardless of time perios. So, I feel the miracles are illustrations of the power etc the writers felt their savior had.

As for the Early Church, every since I learnes the horrible killing and things going on in the name of the Church, I begun to dislike the evangalism of it. Not the beliefs but the political side.

 

[George-ananda]

In regards to miracles, my opinion? Anything that defies the laws of nature cannkt happen regardless of time perios.

I agree with that but how much of nature do you think we understand? Do you think anything that is colloquially called 'paranormal' has ever happened in the history of mankind's experiences?

 

[psychoslice]

I feel that there was no Jesus, that the story of Jesus was borrowed from other belief systems and woven into a new belief system called Christianity.

 

[George-ananda]

I feel that there was no Jesus, that the story of Jesus was borrowed from other belief systems and woven into a new belief system called Christianity.

I see, so what was this apparent appearance of apostles, followers witnesses all around the same time in the first century (including their executions by the state)? Who wove this together and why?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I agree with that but how much of nature do you think we understand? Do you think anything that is colloquially called 'paranormal' has ever happened in the history of mankind's experiences?

I always thought the "super'natural" was all natural. I have seen spirit and have experience a lot of things others call supernatural. However, when it comes to walking on water and raising the dead, that sounds more of and example of what someone of God can do. As far as doing it, I disagree that Jesus did. Spirits don't defy the laws of nature. However, if someone (human) told me they can fly today, I wouldn't believe him until I see it. Likewise back then. Time period shouldn't matter when we have a tendency to test "super" events. Seeing and knowing spirits exist doesn't seem to be an isolated event. People seen them before and many see them today. It's not the same with walking on water.

 

[Quintessence]

I honestly have no opinion. Just as I don't care whether or not the gods are "literal" entities, I don't care whether or not Jesus was a literal entity either. The wisdom and potential value of the teachings stand regardless of whether or not he was "really" a person or whether the gods "literally" exist (whatever that means). I look at the what is and aim to find value in that. It is a good story, and stories are powerful. More powerful than many seem to give credit to nowadays, ironic as that may be.

Beyond that, I haven't really read the Bible (new or old testament) enough to have much else to say. Biblical mythology never appealed to me, so I have never made a concerted effort to read it. It's not a place I'm interested in deriving inspiration from. Not when I can derive inspiration from books on natural science, tales of polytheistic cultures that appeal more to my religion, modern mythology like Doctor Who, or video games like Skyrim.

 

[Desert Snake]

As I was never a Xian, I think my answer is irrelevant, tbh. ''Christianity'' , I'm sure, has various meanings. I doubt that non Xians are the best people to get information about Xianity from, /shrugs/

 

[fantome profane]

This is asking what do you think really happened (as opposed to just what you don't believe).

I mean opinions like Jesus never existed; existed but got distorted; existed but a fraud/hoaxer; had miraculous events; had no miraculous events, not enough information to judge, etcetera.

Also what are your thoughts on the earliest Christians including the apostles and eyewitnesses like St. Peter? Hoaxed? Hoaxers? Errant well-meaning? Got it right to the best of their abilities? Under the influence of a charismatic leader? What?

I do think Jesus existed. He was a Jewish apocalyptic preacher who lived and died approximately 2000 years ago in the region historians refer to as Palestine.

During the time in which he lived there were many so called miracle workers, wonder workers, healers, exorcists etc. Jesus was not unique in this respect, in fact such stories I think it is only reasonable to be skeptical of such stories.

As for "eyewitnesses", we have no eyewitness accounts of any of these events.

But I will say (and this is speculation, but I think not unreasonable) that Peter or someone else close to Jesus may have had a vision of him after his death. But really such things are not that uncommon. If you think about it you may personally know someone (or know someone who knows someone) who claims to have seen a loved one after they died. I think such hallucinations are a common symptom of grief.

And from there stories spread, and changed, and developed. Early Christianity was much more varied and strange than most people realize.

 

[Sand Dancer]

I used to be Christian. I think Jesus existed, but I think some of his message was taken from previous spiritual teachers, some was added, and some was original.

 

[George-ananda]

But I will say (and this is speculation, but I think not unreasonable) that Peter or someone else close to Jesus may have had a vision of him after his death. But really such things are not that uncommon. If you think about it you may personally know someone (or know someone who knows someone) who claims to have seen a loved one after they died. I think such hallucinations are a common symptom of grief.

But remember the claims of the vacated tomb and sighting by more than one person at the same time.

 

[George-ananda]

As I was never a Xian, I think my answer is irrelevant, tbh. ''Christianity'' , I'm sure, has various meanings. I doubt that non Xians are the best people to get information about Xianity from, /shrugs/

Anyone who has grown up in the western world would have to have pondered this question.

 

[fantome profane]

But remember the claims of the vacated tomb and sighting by more than one person at the same time.

The bodies of crucified criminals during the Roman occupation of Palestine did not get placed into tombs, I don't accept the story of the empty tomb. Nor do I believe the stories of multiple sightings.

 

[Desert Snake]

Anyone who has grown up in the western world would have to have pondered this question.

How does that change my answer? I believe the answer I gave to be rational, from exactly that, studying xianity to an extent, knowing /imo/ , a decent amount about it; however, that does not equate to giving answers that have relevance to ''Christianity''. It's like separating a theistic religion from the theism, and then asking questions about it; it might be interesting, but really it's just an exercise in not putting things into context.

 

[fantome profane]

As I was never a Xian, I think my answer is irrelevant, tbh. ''Christianity'' , I'm sure, has various meanings. I doubt that non Xians are the best people to get information about Xianity from, /shrugs/

It seems that you have a different interpretation of the OP than I do. When I read the OP I don't see it as a question about Christianity, I see it as a question about history. And on that topic non-Christians are just as likely to have informed opinions as Christians are.

 

[Paranoid Android]

This is asking what do you think really happened (as opposed to just what you don't believe).

I mean opinions like Jesus never existed; existed but got distorted; existed but a fraud/hoaxer; had miraculous events; had no miraculous events, not enough information to judge, etcetera.

Also what are your thoughts on the earliest Christians including the apostles and eyewitnesses like St. Peter? Hoaxed? Hoaxers? Errant well-meaning? Got it right to the best of their abilities? Under the influence of a charismatic leader? What?

I think that Jesus of Nazareth was a highly gifted mentally ill man. I suspect the disciples were as well. Most prophets and seers are mentally ill, of the schizophrenic type, and that explains the visions they saw.

 

[Quetzal]

This is asking what do you think really happened (as opposed to just what you don't believe).

I mean opinions like Jesus never existed; existed but got distorted; existed but a fraud/hoaxer; had miraculous events; had no miraculous events, not enough information to judge, etcetera.

Also what are your thoughts on the earliest Christians including the apostles and eyewitnesses like St. Peter? Hoaxed? Hoaxers? Errant well-meaning? Got it right to the best of their abilities? Under the influence of a charismatic leader? What?

I really don't know. I find myself saying that a lot lately, but it is true. When I try to break down the story of Jesus and early Christianity I find myself asking: "Does it really matter what I think?" There are so many theories and ideas, some more believable than others. What I do believe is that the stories given to us about Jesus in scripture serve a purpose. I find them fascinating and I really enjoy some of the writings (John is my favorite).

If Jesus did exist I do not think the Gospels are an accurate reflection of who he has. The Gospels lend themselves to some inconsistencies and I do not believe the "miracles" happened in the way they are told. I believe the people were oppressed and needed a voice, I am sure living in that time wasn't easy. I believe the man known as Jesus was a charismatic person who told them stories and comforted them when they needed it. In short, I think he told them what they needed and wanted to hear. When he died, the stories about him continued and one exaggeration/artistic liberty led to another and well... here we are.

Just my .02.

 

[sun rise]

Jesus to me was the Christ, the Avatar - the same One who descends to Earth from time to time when the world needs a push. Part of the Bible, such as the Sermon on the Mount I think are pretty accurate but other parts made up by translators and priests over the centuries. His teachings were not new because the Truth is never new. It's the same truth said in different times in different ways with different emphasis for different groups of people.

As far as his death, I take the Quran's account plus the legends in India as accurate that he did not die on the cross. Besides, what's death anyway - it's nothing special. We all die. What exemplifies Jesus' life is voluntarily taking on the suffering of humanity by means of his own pain and suffering in order to set a new course.

 

[Unification]

This is asking what do you think really happened (as opposed to just what you don't believe).

I mean opinions like Jesus never existed; existed but got distorted; existed but a fraud/hoaxer; had miraculous events; had no miraculous events, not enough information to judge, etcetera.

Also what are your thoughts on the earliest Christians including the apostles and eyewitnesses like St. Peter? Hoaxed? Hoaxers? Errant well-meaning? Got it right to the best of their abilities? Under the influence of a charismatic leader? What?

Jesus never existed as a literal human being but is a force acting within the human body. "God" in the flesh as in literally "God" inside of a human body made of flesh and blood.

The 12 disciples are the 12 cranial nerves/branches. Being taught wisdom, knowledge, truth, understanding, love, peace, humility, charity, mercy, compassion from within.

The tomb of this force is the solar plexus. It is hidden and buried and needs unleashed/resurrected within someone's heart.

"The Christ" is a substance flowing through the human body. It goes from in and out, back and forth through every human beings temple(mind). In and out of certain levels of consciousness. Most ignore the thoughts, ideas, etc. this force creates in their conscious minds.

"Jesus" and "the Christ" have different names all throughout different religious texts. It's been made about an outward messenger and not the message. It's been made to seek externally rather than internally.

The eye witnesses are the ones who have made the eye of the mind whole(holy) and single(one.) They have seen the light and resurrection from within. They have understood the work that was being done within them because they took the leap of faith to begin working on themselves from within. They picked up their inner cross (consciousness within the physical plane/physical body) and have humbled themselves by taking responsibility, have had enough self created suffering(conscious state of hell) and have set out to gradually crucify their ego/pysche at the place of the skull. Denying their animal minded nature. The ones who stop making excuses and rid of the "well I can't do that's." What they come to realize on the other side, the blind faith that there was another side... is the most precious and surreal bliss.

The miracles are making the blind(lacking awareness) to see(awakening-aware). The deaf(ones who don't hear/listen/understand) to remove the cobwebs from their ears to hear and listen and understand.

"Jesus said" is another way of conveying that "the higher mind" of an individual said.... "The Christ conscious" of an individual said....

"The higher mind" said, because of your traditions and your own ways, I will reject you. Because you are seeking externally, I will reject you. Because you are prideful, bitter, blameful, egotistical... I will reject you.