To the silent God believers and those that offer their opinion of me...

[Just_me_Mike]

If I only have 4 days left until the end of the world, then this is kind of a moot point, but I'll make it anyway.

I believe in something not falsifiable. I believe Jesus is coming back this Saturday. I am the man on the corner with a sign that says the world is coming to an end.

I am sure there are those that have simply read my postings without so much as uttering a word about it, and then there are those that make no qualms about telling me how wrong I am, or how naive I am, or how misguided I have been led.

So what? Am I really that different from you? We all believe in a book or series of books, or some ancient story, all of which claim many un-falsifiable events, places, people etc...
So what? I have come to believe in an idea produced from said books, I am putting my neck out there with something firm, that all can stand back and point in a few days if I am wrong and say "see, what a simpleton" or whatever.

At the end of the day, my delusions will be over in 4 days, and yours will continue on probably until you die. So where does that leave us? Your un-falsifiable beliefs are better than mine? Or are they just safer? Safer from public ridicule and scrutiny?

I can not tell you how wonderful it feels, to know I have searched for the truth for over 20 years and that search for God will end in 4 days. To which I can either go to heaven, or focus the rest of my life on real things, falsifiable things. I get to leave the fog of religion, and move on.

All those pointing at me today, if life goes on after next Saturday, will still be stuck in a delusion of grandeur chasing their tale. Yet you will be safe from most ridicule because your fairy tale offers nothing of real substance by which your faith can be tested. Hence you have no reason to make full sense of your situation as pertaining to faith and God. Your safe zone will go unchanged.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If I only have 4 days left until the end of the world, then this is kind of a moot point, but I'll make it anyway.

I believe in something not falsifiable. I believe Jesus is coming back this Saturday. I am the man on the corner with a sign that says the world is coming to an end.

What makes you say your beliefs aren't falsifiable?

Presumably, you don't just believe that Jesus is coming back on Saturday; rather, you believe it because of some sort of reasoning. Even if the claim "Jesus is coming back on Saturday" isn't falsifiable itself (not until Saturday, anyhow), claims of the form "_____, therefore Jesus is coming back on Saturday" very well may be.

For instance, if you fill that blank with "Harold Camping is trustworthy", then this is a claim that can be evaluated. Same with if you fill the blank with "the Bible says it, and the Bible is reliable".

Just because you're not willing to test the claim doesn't mean that it's untestable.

At the end of the day, my delusions will be over in 4 days, and yours will continue on probably until you die. So where does that leave us? Your un-falsifiable beliefs are better than mine? Or are they just safer? Safer from public ridicule and scrutiny?

Here's the difference: I want to get better.

I'm not perfect. I'm sure there are plenty of irrational ideas floating around in my head, but when I find one, I try to get rid of it. I want to make my ideas as true as possible. Just saying "yes, I'm being irrational, but so is everybody else" isn't good enough for me.

 

[outhouse]

Am I really that different from you?

Yes extremely different

So what?

some people fall for cults some dont

all of which claim many un-falsifiable events, places, people etc...
So what?

thes old books you speak of are designed for the good of man and dont give exact dates for the end of the world like a cult does.

So where does that leave us?

I think you should be asking yourself, where does that leave me.

we will go on the same as now.

Your un-falsifiable beliefs are better than mine?

YES, I know mine are just that and i mentally keep them in check where they belong.

I can not tell you how wonderful it feels, to know I have searched for the truth for over 20 years and that search for God will end in 4 days

this is the problem with cults, they draw people in and give them false beliefs and lives are changed for thw worse under these false beliefs.

many people have died doing exactly what you are doing.

All those pointing at me today, if life goes on after next Saturday, will still be stuck in a delusion of grandeur chasing their tale.

thats not true in any sense. it is also prosetylizing my future your clueless about

your the one who has fallen into a cult not me, my life remains the same

Yet you will be safe from most ridicule because your fairy tale offers nothing of real substance by which your faith can be tested.

you dont know enough about people to make that statement

Hence you have no reason to make full sense of your situation as pertaining to faith and God.

quit worrying about soemone else life! I believe its your life traveling away from reality


you have been trying to spread your beliefs out in this forum and your hitting resistance because we all dont want to join the harold camping cult of doomsday.

you had a choice to keep this to yourself and choosed not to.

Your playing with fire and trying to expose others to your flame. I personaly find this wrong! and a great reason to outlaw cults just by what I percieve as damage to you and your familys life

 

[Just_me_Mike]

What makes you say your beliefs aren't falsifiable?

Presumably, you don't just believe that Jesus is coming back on Saturday; rather, you believe it because of some sort of reasoning. Even if the claim "Jesus is coming back on Saturday" isn't falsifiable itself (not until Saturday, anyhow), claims of the form "_____, therefore Jesus is coming back on Saturday" very well may be.

For instance, if you fill that blank with "Harold Camping is trustworthy", then this is a claim that can be evaluated. Same with if you fill the blank with "the Bible says it, and the Bible is reliable".

Just because you're not willing to test the claim doesn't mean that it's untestable.

Well I have asked for help in the past on the RF to do such things, but it never really got that far. You seem to have an ability to do such things, so maybe you could have helped in the past. I am willing, but don't know how. I have been told time and time again that I have no evidence, and no possible rationale to make the statements I am making. I am told that all Camping's dates are simply untrue, or unprovable, like tower of babel etc...

Here's the difference: I want to get better.

Me too, and I have done away with many crazy ideas, I just could not shake this one.

I'm not perfect. I'm sure there are plenty of irrational ideas floating around in my head, but when I find one, I try to get rid of it. I want to make my ideas as true as possible. Just saying "yes, I'm being irrational, but so is everybody else" isn't good enough for me.

I feel the same way. I spent the last few years trying to either prove or disprove this date, and on my own, I did the best I could. I simply ended up with more reason to believe it than not believe it.
Can you fault me for that? I at least tried to be rational about it. I can at least look in the mirror and know I did everything I could to understand the truth of it.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Yes extremely different



some people fall for cults some dont




thes old books you speak of are designed for the good of man and dont give exact dates for the end of the world like a cult does.




I think you should be asking yourself, where does that leave me.

we will go on the same as now.



YES, I know mine are just that and i mentally keep them in check where they belong.



this is the problem with cults, they draw people in and give them false beliefs and lives are changed for thw worse under these false beliefs.

many people have died doing exactly what you are doing.



thats not true in any sense. it is also prosetylizing my future your clueless about

your the one who has fallen into a cult not me, my life remains the same



you dont know enough about people to make that statement




quit worrying about soemone else life! I believe its your life traveling away from reality


you have been trying to spread your beliefs out in this forum and your hitting resistance because we all dont want to join the harold camping cult of doomsday.

you had a choice to keep this to yourself and choosed not to.

Your playing with fire and trying to expose others to your flame. I personaly find this wrong! and a great reason to outlaw cults just by what I percieve as damage to you and your familys life

So you are an atheist or not? Was this directed specifically at you? You identify yourself with atheism, so how can you relate to what I am writing.
I only ask that, because you reply here as if there are some stories in the bible you might feel partial too believing, but can't for whatever reason.

The title of the thread was to those that believe in God. Do you fall into that category?
The tile could have been made clearer to say "To the silent God believers, and the God believers that offer their opinion of me". Does that make better sense?

 

[outhouse]

I simply ended up with more reason to believe it than not believe it.
Can you fault me for that?

Yes I can

have you ever heard the term from a policeman "ignorance is no excuse"

if you get to this its a matter of education and wordly experiences.

by your post alone I know your young and impressionable.

I at least tried to be rational about it

we have all tried to help you and you have refused and argued facts.

I can at least look in the mirror and know I did everything I could to understand the truth of it.

thats a cop out



we all want the best for you here at RF as you are our RF brother [like it or not]

 

[outhouse]

The title of the thread was to those that believe in God. Do you fall into that category?

here is what you said in the title

and those that offer their opinion of me...

we have been trying to help you and you have fought us tooth and nail just like now

 

[Just_me_Mike]

here is what you said in the title




we have been trying to help you and you have fought us tooth and nail just like now

That is why I said in my last post to you, I should have added the extra bit to the title. It was geared to God believers that offer help.

I have said repeatedly, the only clear opposition and voice has come from Atheists and Deists. Which would include you as well. Though, I still have issues with some of what you have offered. I simply don't want to argue about it.

 

[Flankerl]

It strikes me as odd to forget about religion at all just because you follow(ed) a fraud. It also feels kind of like a teenager could have written it.

But well good luck to you.

 

[Willamena]

I agree with Flankerl - it's not the religion that's at fault, but Camping's interpretation of it.

 

[No Good Boyo]

Just out of curiosity, what you gonna believe on Sunday?

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Just out of curiosity, what you gonna believe on Sunday?

If nothing happens, then I will most likely feel like a Deist. I don't know that I could even come to be an atheist (possible I guess), but there is not other explanation of God that has ever made sense to me, other than Camping's method. Believe me I have read MANY of them since I was a child.
I get mocked for it, but that's OK, at least I am honest about who I am.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Well I have asked for help in the past on the RF to do such things, but it never really got that far. You seem to have an ability to do such things, so maybe you could have helped in the past. I am willing, but don't know how. I have been told time and time again that I have no evidence, and no possible rationale to make the statements I am making. I am told that all Camping's dates are simply untrue, or unprovable, like tower of babel etc...

The Tower of Babel story is contradicted by archaeological evidence, and it's likely physically impossible anyhow.

And for other stories... take the Exodus: 600,000 men and their families leaving Egypt for Canaan and leaving no archaeological trace?

An entire people served Egyptians for centuries and this didn't affect the Hebrew culture or language at all? Think about how many "loan words" ended up in English as a result of the Anglo-Saxon servitude to the Normans: beef, pork, ham, etc. Hebrew doesn't show any similar signs of close contact with Egyptians; why would this be?

And wandering for 40 years around the Sinai peninsula? The Sinai's not a big place; even if you only count the men, 600,000 people would be enough that if they stood shoulder-to-shoulder, they could form a line long enough to stretch all the way from mainland Egypt all the way to Israel... and it took them 40 years to cross this distance?

Just start with the question "what points to this being true, and what points to it being false?" Then, for each of these points, ask the question again. Repeat as needed.

I feel the same way. I spent the last few years trying to either prove or disprove this date, and on my own, I did the best I could. I simply ended up with more reason to believe it than not believe it.
Can you fault me for that? I at least tried to be rational about it. I can at least look in the mirror and know I did everything I could to understand the truth of it.

I don't believe you.

Even in the threads here, you've shown a tendency to avoid discussing the hard questions about your pet belief. From what I've seen, when someone brings up a difficult point, if you can't respond to it, you avoid it.

This is not "doing the best you could".

 

[Just_me_Mike]

It strikes me as odd to forget about religion at all just because you follow(ed) a fraud.

The bible is a very complex book. As such it is either an incomplete collection of ancient writings (as Angellous believes) or it is a divine collection from God. I chose the latter to see if it was true, and Camping offered a version that I already considered before I heard of Camping. So I started studying his work, and it makes more sense than anyone else. It requires lots of faith, and the entire bible to be infallible, but that was what made it so much fun. To see if it could live up to that.
I also have read scholars work, and own quite a few books on Old Testament Scholarship and so forth. I really have spent a good many years learning the bible and many different views of the bible.
As such, I get mocked for where I ended up. Once this ends on Saturday I have zero reason for believing in anything anyone has to say about God's purpose etc... So I walk away.
Why is the teenagerish?

 

[Just_me_Mike]

I don't believe you.

Even in the threads here, you've shown a tendency to avoid discussing the hard questions about your pet belief. From what I've seen, when someone brings up a difficult point, if you can't respond to it, you avoid it.

This is not "doing the best you could".

Well this is partially true. I don't like to respond to posts that I REALLY can't respond to. So today for example I went to the library and looked up Mesopotamia because of a recent exchange. I stopped replying because I couldn't be sure what I or the other poster was saying was more factual. So today I am better able to discuss that. At other times, I simply get frustrated and walk away.

I really do like being told things like you just said in this post, because it gives me things to go research or think about to see if they are valid points. You may not believe me about that, but it is what I stand by.

 

[No Good Boyo]

If nothing happens, then I will most likely feel like a Deist. I don't know that I could even come to be an atheist (possible I guess), but there is not other explanation of God that has ever made sense to me, other than Camping's method. Believe me I have read MANY of them since I was a child.
I get mocked for it, but that's OK, at least I am honest about who I am.

I wasn't mocking you, I was curious as to how you would feel if your faith had been exposed as false. Thanks for your honesty, it's appreciated. I'd wish you luck for the weekend but a great result for you wouldn't exactly be great for me and my family.

Again, out of curiosity, have you made any preparation for for the weekend? What does a person do if they are are convinced that the world will end in 4 days? Are you celebrating the event? do you feel that your gods ending of civilisation is justified? I mean, all those children being killed for no reason. Must be a difficult thing to come to terms with.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

I wasn't mocking you, I was curious as to how you would feel if your faith had been exposed as false. Thanks for your honesty, it's appreciated. I'd wish you luck for the weekend but a great result for you wouldn't exactly be great for me and my family.

No worries, I appreciate the dialog.

Again, out of curiosity, have you made any preparation for for the weekend? What does a person do if they are are convinced that the world will end in 4 days? Are you celebrating the event? do you feel that your gods ending of civilisation is justified? I mean, all those children being killed for no reason. Must be a difficult thing to come to terms with.

Well I own my own business, and have recently been advising a separate company in spare time. I stopped advising, as a result of this weekend. I stopped that two weeks ago.
I have been taking trips with my wife and kids more numerous and taking my wife out to lunch almost everyday.
She took the day off Friday and we will just chill and see what happens.
If nothing happens, I have plans to start at the university

As far as all those that might die, I admit it is a bad situation and I don't know how I feel about it.

 

[Flankerl]

Teenagerish is the word that i first thought about.

Well i simply cant understand you.
I dont believe in any kind of end of the world drama as depicted by various christian sects/christianity.

So i cant really understand it. Its just so unbelievable weird that so many people have predicted the end of the world/christ will come in the last 2000 years and exactly what did happen? Nothing.

So well.... i dont understand you. Sorry.

 

[Noaidi]

I have been taking trips with my wife and kids more numerous and taking my wife out to lunch almost everyday.

So life will continue. You have spent more time with your wife and children. If nothing else, this situation has perhaps allowed you to evaluate what is important. Forget the prophecies of other people - focus on what you have right now. Your wife and kids are more important than what some street preacher has to say.

 

[Willamena]

The bible is a very complex book. As such it is either an incomplete collection of ancient writings (as Angellous believes) or it is a divine collection from God. I chose the latter to see if it was true...

Does it make sense that God can be tested this way?

and Camping offered a version that I already considered before I heard of Camping. So I started studying his work, and it makes more sense than anyone else. It requires lots of faith...

I'll say...

and the entire bible to be infallible, but that was what made it so much fun. To see if it could live up to that.
I also have read scholars work, and own quite a few books on Old Testament Scholarship and so forth. I really have spent a good many years learning the bible and many different views of the bible.
As such, I get mocked for where I ended up. Once this ends on Saturday I have zero reason for believing in anything anyone has to say about God's purpose etc... So I walk away.

Sounds like you've already done so.