To those who understand enlightenment

[methylatedghosts]

This statement was made several pages back, and I felt the urge to respond:

I now know, I will NEVER be fully enlightened. At least, not in the same way you are. Especially because you believe I am more selfish than you. If it's not worth hanging around in MY world, why do you do it?

Then so be it.
It is all about choice. The choices you make. Who and what you choose to be!

"I now know, I will NEVER be fully enlightened." - And it is so.


...unless it is not.

 

[methylatedghosts]

I would just like to say -

That while I have been following most of the thread, I don't tend to reply unless I feel inspired to, not with topics such as this one.

But I must say - the thread took a sudden twist somewhere - and I've lost it's direction near the end...

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Hi,

Just wanted to let you guys know that we have located my brother kaat, and that he is safe and being cared for.

Thanks.

Good news! :hug:

 

[kaat]

<----- that's for you, kaat.

And the same to you, it means a great deal!

 

[kaat]

Silence often says much more, than trying to say, what has been said before, eh, Momma?

This is for you, dear Kaat ---===>> :bkcat:: hamster :: hamster :: hamster :: hamster ::bkcat:

Words fail me, for the moment, Kaat.

Compassion is the path of action.

Thank you KINDLY

 

[kaat]

I'm sorry I haven't been on the thread. Don't get the wrong impression, I'm still here.

I'm geniunely glad to know that

 

[kaat]

I tried telling that in an email, but didn't get a very positive response. I can't help but get the feeling somehow we have "failed" Kaat.

That being said, I feel that this thread started out to be very positive, but after page 15 or so, it just gets, well -- strange. It is my feeling that this thread exemplifies the reason why I heartily recommend to those undergoing "illumination" to keep it to them self, for the most part, until they understand the "nuts and bolts" of their experience from the “broader view” of further experience.

Apprecite your thoughts, but I must say I shall never keep my illumination quiet, not even now.

 

[kaat]

Hello. I am kaat's older brother in the UK and I have just registered on this forum. He as cut himself off from my mother and I and we are desperate to contact him.

@kaat: Bro, if you're still reading this thread, I beg you to contact either me or Mum. We are very concerned about your well being. You know that we don't hate you and only wish to help in any way we can. You are my one and only brother and I will never abandon you. Please call or email.

@kaat's friends: First, thank you all for the compassion you have shown for my brother. If any of you have heard from kaat since his last post here, I implore you to contact me, either on the forum or by email. My mother and I are desperately worried about him. Even if it is only to say that he is safe, please let me know.

Thank you

FYI - this has been rectified, though it still up for debate who is cutting off from who.

 

[kaat]

Young kaat here, lol. Well, my bro was right. I admitted MYSELF to hospital for fear of losing my mind. I'm still in hospital now. In actual fact, right at insanity's door, I found that my now-very-advanced meditation snapped me back to clarity, and continues to keep me well sane. Kewl.

Anyway, I can't work on much at the moment, but wanted to offer a couple of things. Some of you have rightly seen the "shift" in this thread; at first I was all keen to learn about enlightenment. But the power in the combination of my particular gifts is what is now prevalent to me. I believe my theories are very important, and, by the same token, my goal to help change the world.

I will be making a couple of posts below that are intended only to further explain some things for those that may still be reading.

MOST IMPORTANTLY: To any who wish to help me ... get hold of your best resource in the way of logical reasoning, and have them review the tread. IT IS the logical accuracy I am now interested in. I have excellent powers of logic myself, and I still cannot "break" my theories.

START with the thread that says "THIS IS REALLY *IT*" (the true nature of reality), and go wherever else is necessary. Thanks.

 

[Troublemane]

Young kaat here, lol. Well, my bro was right. I admitted MYSELF to hospital for fear of losing my mind. I'm still in hospital now. In actual fact, right at insanity's door, I found that my now-very-advanced meditation snapped me back to clarity, and continues to keep me well sane. Kewl.

Great! Hospital may help, but remember sometimes a breakdown is necessary to achieve a break-through. When someone has a massive mental change it can be disorienting and mentally difficult. Just know we are all pulling for you, cheering you on! You will make it through, I am sure!

Anyway, I can't work on much at the moment, but wanted to offer a couple of things. Some of you have rightly seen the "shift" in this thread; at first I was all keen to learn about enlightenment. But the power in the combination of my particular gifts is what is now prevalent to me. I believe my theories are very important, and, by the same token, my goal to help change the world.

Good! The world needs people who want to help! Will be watching for more info! More on these theories! thinking=Good stuff for the mind!:angel2:

 

[kaat]

Further Explanation: "Everything is True AND False"

I want to expand a little bit on the "Harm" example previously cited ...

Because it is sometimes kind to be cruel, harm IS therefore BOTH harm, AND NOT harm. The best example of when this can occur, is when you want to be compassionate toward someone, but doing so would not be compassionate to yourself.

The above statements only work in terms of PERCEPTIONS - not absolute truths. Now, just as the current moment is all we really have, so to is our current perception, the only one we really have.

BUT, we may have memories of OTHER perceptions we have had. Each remembered perception was TRUE at some point. Keeping perceptions in memory effectively "stacks" them accumulatively. And this is precisely the context where harm being harm, and not harm, is relevant and correct.

To review the example in these terms: Perhaps once someone asked you - "Is harm always bad?" (or Is harm always harm?), and you said, "Of course it is!". But later you wanted to be kind to someone, but realized that if you were, you would suffer yourself, so you decided to be "cruel to be kind" (It is my belief that when living compassionatley, oneself is always the first customer).

So now you have the memory of harm just being harm, plus the new perception that harm is sometimes kind (not harm). See?

Now, since it IS possible to believe anything, it IS also true to say that "Everything is True, And False". See?

AND, because these states of truth and falsity are NOT mutually exclusive, they in fact represent CHOICES. This is a tricky concept, and warrants some thought. I arrive at it from quantum mechanics, but that's not necessary.

Now, ONLY the MORALLY best choices will succeed, because only THEY can spread enlightenment (in the dictionary sense). The LESSER choices will only spread, literally, like bad ideas.

So, to accept this whole theory, is also to accept that the majority of humans still do prefer to do the right thing, at all times.

I'm sure this is still unclear to many, but please; wrestle with the parts you don't accept. You'll notice that everything I've said to date is drawn on in this post.

If you are satisified, go and review my "Theory of the true nature of reality" - you're not far off it now

 

[kaat]

Further Explanation: Enlightenment & Me

I think it's clear from this thread that *I* find current notions of "enlightenment" to be, let's say 'incomplete'. Now, I know many have been involved far longer than I, and so I can't possibly think I know better. But I do think I am finding it different, and I'd like to try again to highlight how ...

First of all, I DO believe I have attained enlightenment, and to a very advanced degree. Frankly, I have no idea what kind of "spectrum" of enlightenment is supposed to exist, so I can't say where I am on such a spectrum. I say "advanced", because I can now meditate, successfully, at will, and constantly. As I mentioned before, I have been doing so for over 4 weeks. Four weeks of almost always being "in the moment". I have learned to ignore just about any distraction I need to - including attractive women - I'm not joking, because for me this has always been a major distraction. Another way to express this experience is that I no longer have to "react" to anything; I can always "respond" instead.

Basically, what I cannot fathom about what I've read on enlightenment, is that it may take a lifetime of working with or towards it, yet there is apparently no tangible benefit. Of course, I understand the benefit to one personally; that of being able to truly relax, and live well. But even with this one result, one is apparently not supposed to tell anyone about it. Huh? Is this a shell game? It just does not seem right to me. Whoever "invented" enlightenment would have to explain this to me, in plain English (desciples seem unable to do this). I know, I know, it's about us all being one - but that does not satisfy my objections. E.g.: What's the enlightened part of THE ONE doing to help the rest of it?

Point number one among my objections, is that all the accounts I've read seem to be based on the teachings of some other. My enlightenment is a happy accident, and I feel no obligation to treat it one way or another. Perhaps I am a Protestant realized one, lol.

So, to get to the meat ...

Current thinking and experience seems to indicate that when you realize what enlightenment is, you must pursue it by practicing meditation. And that this model of meditation practice is, ever more closely becoming "the goal" itself. I DISAGREE. To me, this would literally be "awakening in order to stay asleep". How can I say this? Well, because I seem to have gone from enlightenment to near-perfect meditation in one step. And I plan to find out what to do with it. My "Save the world" goal, and my other theories, are evidence of this.

I believe, that when one becomes enlightened, one realizes a new path: basically, that of total compassionate living. I feel irreversibly comitted to this. And I first learned of this idea from Buddhist teachings.

The meditation IS essential, but only in as much as one can do it permanently from that point on - as if it is simply a tool to realize compassionate living. And it also represents the "permanently open mind" needed to do so.

NOW, as a final note to this post, I can begin to answer the proverbial question: "What's it ALL about?". I believe that the central mystery facing humankind, is basically ONE BIG RIDDLE - with good reason. Much more on that later. But lastly, I do believe that RIDDLE can be solved - and that I am helping to do so.

Thanks for reading.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Kaat,

my goal to help change the world.

Can only suggest CHANGE THE GOAL - from *changing the world* to *changing your SELF*
As the world was there before you , is here and will be there after you. Nothing can change IT but surely you can CHANGE.
Best wishes!
Love & rgds

 

[Troublemane]

Great stuff KAAT! And yes you are right about things that are harmful being not harmful---for example, what happens the first time someone betrays you? It hurts. There is sadness. But what about the next time? It hurts less,and you can actually begin to laugh at the folly of someone trying to mess with your mind. It seems ridiculous that someone would spend so much energy just trying to trick you---for what purpose? What do they gain? And so, having some experience with it, and some perspective, you can actually laugh at things that used to get you down.

And yes, meditation is the means to acheive deep compassion. I think its the best means. Not because it naturally engenders a person with compassion (through reciting mantras or self-hypnosis, or something), but through really knowing the contents of you mind, and being able to sweep aside temporary thoughts which are mere distractions, annoyances, etc. Urges, emotional responses, things that arise in the mind and are more likely to cause problems or strife than anything else. Through meditation you are simply able to select out behaviors you find unfavorable because you are actually looking at the contents of your mind objectively.

IN my experience, meditation leads steadily on, it seems like you arent getting much advancement for a long time, just dealing with a steady influx of thoughts. ....Then, BAM. It happens. Suddenly you are looking at your life as if you are distinct from it. As if for the longest time you were in the movie, and then POW! you are now in the audience, watching the movie--no longer a part of it. No longer just a character lost in it.

To me thats where the compassion aspect arises. First because you are no longer afraid to interact with others (due to being no longer lost "in the movie"), and second, because you can be more compassionate toward others who have not had that experience, and are still lost in their "movies". So keep it up young lad! It sounds like you are making amazing progress! w00t:angel2:

 

[zenzero]

Friend Troublemane,
Surely Meditation is the door to merge with the universal energy.
Love & rgds

 

[kaat]

Silence often says much more, than trying to say, what has been said before, eh, Momma?

This is for you, dear Kaat ---===>> :bkcat:: hamster :: hamster :: hamster :: hamster ::bkcat:

Words fail me, for the moment, Kaat.

Compassion is the path of action.

So sorry, I think I missed your lovely message - and thank you!

 

[kaat]

Friend Kaat,

Can only suggest CHANGE THE GOAL - from *changing the world* to *changing your SELF*
As the world was there before you , is here and will be there after you. Nothing can change IT but surely you can CHANGE.
Best wishes!
Love & rgds

I don't doubt your advice, but I don't feel the need to change my goals. And I guess I'm saying that it's not the world that should change (I think it's perfect), but in fact, US that might change. Change, perhaps, in a way similar to the promise that Barack Obama might represent - although we have no way to guage how he would live up to his billing. Actually, if i could work with anyone in the world right now, it might be him, OR, Stephen Lewis (Canadian; Google!).

 

[kaat]

Great stuff KAAT! .....

This is surely the most encouraging post I've seen, and I thank you dearly for that!

 

[methylatedghosts]

I just want you to know, Kaat, that you've been in my thoughts. I have been following this thread, but just don't always feel inspired to post.

However, my energy is still non-the-less involved in this thread ^_^

Hope all is well and you're being who and what you want to be.

 

[kaat]

I just want you to know, Kaat, that you've been in my thoughts. I have been following this thread, but just don't always feel inspired to post.

However, my energy is still non-the-less involved in this thread ^_^

Hope all is well and you're being who and what you want to be.

Understood. And I promise you, I feel your energy, and I welcome it