Too Scholarly

[Rival]

This is mostly intended for followers of reconstructed religions - Hellenismos, Religio Romana etc. but others are welcome to join.

I am finding that a lot of neo-Paganism is far too scholarly. Don't misunderstand me, I love scholarship, but most of the books we tend to read are by scholars, not practitioners (maybe this is just a thing in Kemetic faith?) and everything is so dry and intellectual. It's good to know history, but do I really need to know the name and date of every Pharaoh in order to be Kemetic? However, you then run into the problem that books by practitioners are often the 'personal gnosis' kind and are generally only based on one person's experience. So it's hard either way.

What's your take on this? How do you learn the cultic elements, to make them come alive, rather than from some dry scholarly work, for instance?

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

This is mostly intended for followers of reconstructed religions - Hellenismos, Religio Romana etc. but others are welcome to join.

I am finding that a lot of neo-Paganism is far too scholarly. Don't misunderstand me, I love scholarship, but most of the books we tend to read are by scholars, not practitioners (maybe this is just a thing in Kemetic faith?) and everything is so dry and intellectual. It's good to know history, but do I really need to know the name and date of every Pharaoh in order to be Kemetic? However, you then run into the problem that books by practitioners are often the 'personal gnosis' kind and are generally only based on one person's experience. So it's hard either way.

What's your take on this? How do you learn the cultic elements, to make them come alive, rather than from some dry scholarly work, for instance?

I'm finding better results personally by trying to resort to seek out long articles rather than books.

That's just me, though. I kind of have a young, slightly naive view of the world, so books aren't really a medium I try to invest much time in.

The articles I find don't always tell everything, but they usually end in a zinger which makes one think or reconsider their perspective. And I feel that format is good for me.

 

[PureX]

What's your take on this? How do you learn the cultic elements, to make them come alive, rather than from some dry scholarly work, for instance?

That's a good question. In a historical context, it's probably not possible. Only the "scholars" could write. So only their "from an intellectual distance" perspective got documented. In a more present tense, however, one would think there must be a few books around written by people that are actually engaged in these ideological practices. I have a friend that was a witch for a while. would probably ask her to recommend something 'ground level' to read, and then try to follow the rabbit hole.

 

[Aupmanyav]

How do you learn the cultic elements, to make them come alive, rather than from some dry scholarly work, for instance?

Hinduism. We have many cults. Vaishnava, Shava, Shakta and Smarta (the major ones). Hinduism has made it easy for us. No cult disrespects the other. The books have praises for all. We resent it, if a cult crosses the line of civility. Myths, stories make them come alive. Too scholarly! People generally skip it.

 

[The Hammer]

What's your take on this? How do you learn the cultic elements, to make them come alive, rather than from some dry scholarly work, for instance?[/QUOTE

I use a mix of scholarship of myths and ideas, terms, linguistics etc. While also blending in my own personal gnosis. I see nothing wrong with UPG, as long as it's not contradicting the Scholarship.

 

[Rival]

I use a mix of scholarship of myths and ideas, terms, linguistics etc. While also blending in my own personal gnosis. I see nothing wrong with UPG, as long as it's not contradicting the Scholarship.

I don't see anything wrong with it, either. My only concern is our faiths becoming intellectual pursuits rather than cultic action, meaningful prayer etc. I'm saying this as a new Pagan, and Egyptology is notoriously generally hostile to Kemeticism. It's a holdover from the days of Victorian Egyptology where the religion was looked at with derision and bafflement, itself a Greco-Roman holdover of views on Kemetic religion.

 

[The Hammer]

Maybe try looking up Kemetic Spirituality?

Redemption of The Criminal Heart Through Kemetic Spirituality|Paperback

Barnes and Nobles, and Amazon have some stuff. You may also have to find a metaphysical store near you, where you can talk to the proprietor about what they view as good spiritual books that aren't pure scholarship.

 

[The Hammer]

I don't see anything wrong with it, either. My only concern is our faiths becoming intellectual pursuits rather than cultic action, meaningful prayer etc. I'm saying this as a new Pagan, and Egyptology is notoriously generally hostile to Kemeticism. It's a holdover from the days of Victorian Egyptology where the religion was looked at with derision and bafflement, itself a Greco-Roman holdover of views on Kemetic religion.

I agree, and I think the biggest issue is that reconstruction stemmed from classical scholarship. So breaking out of that can be hard for some. And not all the scholars are practitioners either, take Jackson Crawford who I like as a resource, does not practice Paganism, but he's a great scholar.

It's a balancing act between sources for sure. Have you read any basic Paganism books? Like Paganism 101 or Paganism for Beginners? That can give solid metaphysical approaches, where you can then supplement with kemetic philosophy and Scholarship.

 

[Rival]

I agree, and I think the biggest issue is that reconstruction stemmed from classical scholarship. So breaking out of that can be hard for some. And not all the scholars are practitioners either, take Jackson Crawford who I like as a resource, does not practice Paganism, but he's a great scholar.

It's a balancing act between sources for sure. Have you read any basic Paganism books? Like Paganism 101 or Paganism for Beginners? That can give solid metaphysical approaches, where you can then supplement with kemetic philosophy and Scholarship.

Thankfully Sharon LaBorde has some really good books for practicing Kemetics, as she is one herself and uses primary sources, but puts them in such a way as to work for layfolk. She has a YT channel, too.

 

[John D. Brey]

What's your take on this? How do you learn the cultic elements, to make them come alive, rather than from some dry scholarly work, for instance?

Are there cultic rituals that are part of the faith and the faithful? For instance, Judaism has a blood drawing ritual, brit milah, which though carnal, and, well, bloody literal, literally, doesn't take away from the gnosis, or knowledge found throughout the Talmud and other Jewish sources of knowledge. Similarly, even Christianity, which has jettisoned most carnal rituals, practices the Eucharist as its own, non-literal, blood ritual.

Knowledge is the blood of the soul. But the soul resides in the body. At least for now. So that most cults require a blood-initiation into the deeper gnosis, knowledge, i.e., the heart and soul, of the faith and the faithful.



John

 

[The Hammer]

Thankfully Sharon LaBorde has some really good books for practicing Kemetics, as she is one herself and uses primary sources, but puts them in such a way as to work for layfolk. She has a YT channel, too.

Ah, good good! Glad you found someone who has a metaphysical approach you can investigate. That's beneficial for sure.

 

[Brickjectivity]

What's your take on this? How do you learn the cultic elements, to make them come alive, rather than from some dry scholarly work, for instance?

I always thought Egyptians had a lot of sex mixed in with their religious practices -- probably masturbation since adultery was illegal and since creation supposedly began with masturbation. I remember seeing statues with phalluses and more in Egyptian archeology somewhere. So perhaps this is how they keep it from being too boring. I am guessing. I am only making a guess, but it seems like sex would figure big both in religion and in the uses of magic.

10 Facts About Sex In Ancient Egypt They Didn’t Teach You At School

 

[Rival]

I always thought Egyptians had a lot of sex mixed in with their religious practices -- probably masturbation since adultery was illegal and since creation supposedly began with masturbation. I remember seeing statues with phalluses and more in Egyptian archeology somewhere. So perhaps this is how they keep it from being too boring. I am guessing. I am only making a guess, but it seems like sex would figure big both in religion and in the uses of magic.

10 Facts About Sex In Ancient Egypt They Didn’t Teach You At School

Kind of. The Atum masturbating myth is just one creation myth of many, but the most well-known.

You're probably thinking of Min or Amun-Min, a God associated with fertility:

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What's your take on this? How do you learn the cultic elements, to make them come alive, rather than from some dry scholarly work, for instance?

There are many books by practitioners, but from what I read the bulk of them need more academia in it because the history is wrong (playing into the ideas of rampant and widespread witch burnings at the hands of the Church), the ideas myths (especially when it forgoes critical thought), and they often do a disservice by promoting beliefs that were widely rejected 1000 years ago and reluctance to acknowledge what we know today (such as astrology being impossible).

 

[Rival]

There are many books by practitioners, but from what I read the bulk of them need more academia in it because the history is wrong (playing into the ideas of rampant and widespread witch burnings at the hands of the Church), the ideas myths (especially when it forgoes critical thought), and they often do a disservice by promoting beliefs that were widely rejected 1000 years ago and reluctance to acknowledge what we know today (such as astrology being impossible).

Thankfully much of this never applied to Kemet anyway, as native Kemtic religion had no astrology as we know it (i.e., your personal sign affecting you) or magic as the West knows it (these are Greek imports during the Late Period in Ancient Egypt and most if not all the Magical Papyri are Greek or Greek influenced). There's also no crystal stuff etc.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Thankfully much of this never applied to Kemet anyway, as native Kemtic religion had no astrology as we know it (i.e., your personal sign affecting you) or magic as the West knows it (this is a Greek import during the Late Period in Ancient Egypt and most if not all the Magical Papyri are Greek or Greek influenced). There's also no crystal stuff etc.

Ither than the Book of the Dead, I can't recall any none scholarly works about them.

 

[Rival]

Ither than the Book of the Dead, I can't recall any none scholarly works about them.

Folks don't know what to do with Kemet. Lol.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Folks don't know what to do with Kemet. Lol.

Ponder how we went from calling it Kemet to Egypt, just like somehow we got Japan from Nippon?
And befriending Anubis is always worthwhile!

 

[Rival]

Ponder how we went from calling it Kemet to Egypt, just like somehow we got Japan from Nippon?
And befriending Anubis is always worthwhile!

Egypt is, as usual, the Greek/Latin way.

I make it a point to use native names.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Shiva spilling his semen all over the world while following Mohini (the female avatara of Vishnu), after the churning of ocean, is very well known. A drop in River Ganges gave birth to Kartikeya (though we were not as explicit as the Egyptians). All gold and silver is because of that spilling. That is an indigenous myth.
Prajapati (Orion, the Supreme God at one time) having incestuous intent toward his daughter (Rohini - Aldebaran), is an Indian Aryan astronomical myth, which stopped the worship of Prajapati and brought in Ouranos (Varuna) as the Supreme God. It is related to precession of equinox.
Astrology (Phalita Jyotisha) became an supplementary subject in the study of Vedas along with Mathematical astronomy (Ganita Jyotisha) around 1,400 BCE.