Torah in Christianity

[IndigoChild5559]

Jews are only Jews biologically if they are atheists.

WHAT??????

Again, being a Jew is being part of a People. The People have a religion, but it is not necessary to follow this religion to be part of the People. Some Jews follow Judaism, and some don't. Jewish law states that anyone who is born of a Jewish mom, regardless of their beliefs, is a Jew, or anyone who has undergone formal conversion, meaning they are adopted into the People.

Is God pleased with them?

God cares about actions. I think God much prefers a moral atheist to an immoral theist.

The stumbling block for Jews is Jesus and His claim about whom He is,

You are radically oversimplifying. There are a number of reasons why Jews will never EVER accept Chrsitainity.

1. God is ECHAD, one, not three in one. Christianity teaches Trinitarianism, which although it is monotheism, is a muddied monotheism. Judaism on the other hand teaches a pure and simple monotheism. Anything that comprises the oneness of God is unthinkable.
2. God is not a man. This is the nature of God, and the nature of God is unchanging. It is stated three times in the Tanakh: twice in Numbers 23:19, and a third time in Job 9:32. For something to be reiterated three times -- it must be of great importance. Christianity on the other hand, claims that Jesus is "fully God and fully man," at least in the orthodox version. The two are absolutely incompatible. Christians try to claim that "let us create man in our own image" is a reference to the triune nature of God, but in reality it is God talking to the heavenly court. Similarly, the claims of Elohim being a plural are moot -- it is more similar to the royal "we" used by the Queen.
3. The New Testament contradicts the teachings of the Tanakh/Torah. The Torah clearly teaches the following of the Law, in order to receive the blessings of prosperity and the land of Canaan. Psalm 19 states that the Law is "perfect....sweeter also than the honey and the honeycomb." Yet Paul teaches that the Law brings a curse. He teaches that circumcision is nothing and keeping the Sabbath is up to the individual, rather than being necessary for the Jew. These views, that of the Tanakh and those of Paul, are utterly incompatible. The Torah is agreed upon by both Christians and Jews to be the word of God, and is therefore the measuring reed to determine what else is orthodoxy -- and it therefore determines that the NT doesn't pass muster
4. The New Testament quotes prophecy out of context (i.e. Hosea 11:1, which is about Israel, not the messiah), misquotes prophecy (i.e. Isaiah 7:14 which is rightly translated young maiden, not virgin), and even makes up prophecy out of whole cloth (such as Matthew 2:23, He shall be called a Nazarene aka someone from the city of Nazareth.)
5. Jesus cannot be the Messiah because he simply did not fulfill messianic prophecy. It makes no sense to say, "He will fulfill the rest when he comes back again." After all, anyone can claim to be the messiah and say they will fulfill the prophecies the next time around. The only way we have of determining the messiah is if they fulfill the messianic claims, all of them, and quite frankly Jesus did not; thus he failed in his attempt to be the messiah. Here are just three examples:
   • The Messiah will usher in an era of worldwide peace between the nations. Jesus did not.
   • The Messiah will rule from Jerusalem. Jesus did not.
   • The Messiah will bring ALL Jews back to the Land of Israel. Jesus did not.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The New Testament authors, when they wrote it, evidenced in the writings they left behind.

Read the Torah, the Israelites didn’t treat other cultures very nicely at all! The bigotry towards non-Jews is evidenced on this thread.

Are you seriously calling @IndigoChild5559 a bigot?

 

[Colt]

Are you seriously calling @IndigoChild5559 a bigot?

This is the quote:

IndigoChild5559 said:
Jesus had nothing to say to non-Jews.

It speaks for itself and has been a common attitude by Israelites towards people outside of Judaism for ages!

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It speaks for itself and has been a common attitude by Israelites towards people outside of Judaism for ages!

So sayeth Urantia; the irony is underwhelming.

 

[Colt]

So sayeth Urantia; the irony is underwhelming.

So says the Torah and authors like Israel Shahak’s Jewish History, Jewish Religion

let's go to My Jewish Learning for a review. Israel and Anti-Gentile Traditions Israel Shahak's theory that anti-Gentile traditions have influenced Israeli policy is well known in both Arab and anti-Semitic circles, but Jews have yet to properly confront it.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

This is the quote:


It speaks for itself and has been a common attitude by Israelites towards people outside of Judaism for ages!

Pointing out that Jesus never made Gentiles part of his ministry is a long long ways from Bigotry.

The only bigotry I'm seeing here is yours. This is the second post I've read of yours that has made disparaging remarks about Israelites aka Jews.

 

[Colt]

Pointing out that Jesus never made Gentiles part of his ministry is a long long ways from Bigotry.

The only bigotry I'm seeing here is yours. This is the second post I've read of yours that has made disparaging remarks about Israelites aka Jews.

Calling attention to your attitude and the age-old bigotry of Jews against the Gentile world is simply a fact of history. Jews are not immune from criticism. Jesus sent his apostles out into All the world after his gospel was rejected by his own, that would be Gentiles.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

So says the Torah and authors like Israel Shahak’s Jewish History, Jewish Religion

Mazal tov - how very special!

Beautifully modeling selection bias, and perhaps inspired by channelled Urantia revelations, you've managed to find your very own Jew whisperer out of a population of roughly 15.7 million Jews. -- namely, Israel Shahak. It's a perfect, albeit unsurprising, fit.

 

[Colt]

Mazal tov - how very special!

Beautifully modeling selection bias, and perhaps inspired by channelled Urantia revelations, you've managed to find your very own Jew whisperer out of a population of roughly 15.7 million Jews. -- namely, Israel Shahak. It's a perfect, albeit unsurprising, fit.

Too proud to face bigotry among your own, I get it, but you didn't refute anything in the article. Critics within Judaism haven't fared well historically.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

the age-old bigotry of Jews against the Gentile

Oh pffft. While certainly there are individual Jews who are racist as all get out, it is not what Judaism teaches. We believe that a person is FINE being a non-Jew, and that righteous Gentiles will have a share in the world to come.

This remark, which you keep spamming, is basically your antisemitic trope.

 

[Brian2]

You are radically oversimplifying. There are a number of reasons why Jews will never EVER accept Chrsitainity.

1. God is ECHAD, one, not three in one. Christianity teaches Trinitarianism, which although it is monotheism, is a muddied monotheism. Judaism on the other hand teaches a pure and simple monotheism. Anything that comprises the oneness of God is unthinkable.
2. God is not a man. This is the nature of God, and the nature of God is unchanging. It is stated three times in the Tanakh: twice in Numbers 23:19, and a third time in Job 9:32. For something to be reiterated three times -- it must be of great importance. Christianity on the other hand, claims that Jesus is "fully God and fully man," at least in the orthodox version. The two are absolutely incompatible. Christians try to claim that "let us create man in our own image" is a reference to the triune nature of God, but in reality it is God talking to the heavenly court. Similarly, the claims of Elohim being a plural are moot -- it is more similar to the royal "we" used by the Queen.
3. The New Testament contradicts the teachings of the Tanakh/Torah. The Torah clearly teaches the following of the Law, in order to receive the blessings of prosperity and the land of Canaan. Psalm 19 states that the Law is "perfect....sweeter also than the honey and the honeycomb." Yet Paul teaches that the Law brings a curse. He teaches that circumcision is nothing and keeping the Sabbath is up to the individual, rather than being necessary for the Jew. These views, that of the Tanakh and those of Paul, are utterly incompatible. The Torah is agreed upon by both Christians and Jews to be the word of God, and is therefore the measuring reed to determine what else is orthodoxy -- and it therefore determines that the NT doesn't pass muster
4. The New Testament quotes prophecy out of context (i.e. Hosea 11:1, which is about Israel, not the messiah), misquotes prophecy (i.e. Isaiah 7:14 which is rightly translated young maiden, not virgin), and even makes up prophecy out of whole cloth (such as Matthew 2:23, He shall be called a Nazarene aka someone from the city of Nazareth.)
5. Jesus cannot be the Messiah because he simply did not fulfill messianic prophecy. It makes no sense to say, "He will fulfill the rest when he comes back again." After all, anyone can claim to be the messiah and say they will fulfill the prophecies the next time around. The only way we have of determining the messiah is if they fulfill the messianic claims, all of them, and quite frankly Jesus did not; thus he failed in his attempt to be the messiah. Here are just three examples:
   • The Messiah will usher in an era of worldwide peace between the nations. Jesus did not.
   • The Messiah will rule from Jerusalem. Jesus did not.
   • The Messiah will bring ALL Jews back to the Land of Israel. Jesus did not.

Jesus was a Jew, the first Christians were Jews, many Jews became Christians and many still do become Christians.
It is easy to see your objections to Jesus as the Jewish Messiah, but as a Christian who believes Jesus is the Jewish Messiah, it is easy to see those objections are not really good objections, and would evaporate easily for someone who believed God raised Jesus from the dead and affirmed who He is.

 

[Firenze]

WHAT??????

Again, being a Jew is being part of a People. The People have a religion, but it is not necessary to follow this religion to be part of the People. Some Jews follow Judaism, and some don't. Jewish law states that anyone who is born of a Jewish mom, regardless of their beliefs, is a Jew, or anyone who has undergone formal conversion, meaning they are adopted into the People.

God cares about actions. I think God much prefers a moral atheist to an immoral theist.

You are radically oversimplifying. There are a number of reasons why Jews will never EVER accept Chrsitainity.

1. God is ECHAD, one, not three in one. Christianity teaches Trinitarianism, which although it is monotheism, is a muddied monotheism. Judaism on the other hand teaches a pure and simple monotheism. Anything that comprises the oneness of God is unthinkable.
2. God is not a man. This is the nature of God, and the nature of God is unchanging. It is stated three times in the Tanakh: twice in Numbers 23:19, and a third time in Job 9:32. For something to be reiterated three times -- it must be of great importance. Christianity on the other hand, claims that Jesus is "fully God and fully man," at least in the orthodox version. The two are absolutely incompatible. Christians try to claim that "let us create man in our own image" is a reference to the triune nature of God, but in reality it is God talking to the heavenly court. Similarly, the claims of Elohim being a plural are moot -- it is more similar to the royal "we" used by the Queen.
3. The New Testament contradicts the teachings of the Tanakh/Torah. The Torah clearly teaches the following of the Law, in order to receive the blessings of prosperity and the land of Canaan. Psalm 19 states that the Law is "perfect....sweeter also than the honey and the honeycomb." Yet Paul teaches that the Law brings a curse. He teaches that circumcision is nothing and keeping the Sabbath is up to the individual, rather than being necessary for the Jew. These views, that of the Tanakh and those of Paul, are utterly incompatible. The Torah is agreed upon by both Christians and Jews to be the word of God, and is therefore the measuring reed to determine what else is orthodoxy -- and it therefore determines that the NT doesn't pass muster
4. The New Testament quotes prophecy out of context (i.e. Hosea 11:1, which is about Israel, not the messiah), misquotes prophecy (i.e. Isaiah 7:14 which is rightly translated young maiden, not virgin), and even makes up prophecy out of whole cloth (such as Matthew 2:23, He shall be called a Nazarene aka someone from the city of Nazareth.)
5. Jesus cannot be the Messiah because he simply did not fulfill messianic prophecy. It makes no sense to say, "He will fulfill the rest when he comes back again." After all, anyone can claim to be the messiah and say they will fulfill the prophecies the next time around. The only way we have of determining the messiah is if they fulfill the messianic claims, all of them, and quite frankly Jesus did not; thus he failed in his attempt to be the messiah. Here are just three examples:
   • The Messiah will usher in an era of worldwide peace between the nations. Jesus did not.
   • The Messiah will rule from Jerusalem. Jesus did not.
   • The Messiah will bring ALL Jews back to the Land of Israel. Jesus did not.

Everything you posted is accurate - so of course will be rejected by those who are ignorant of Jewish eschatology and scripture. Is 7:14 all by itself exposes the blatant dishonesty of the gospel authors and of the fringe group of Messianic Jews who were so desperate for a Messiah to appear that they flat out invented one. A religion built on fraud is not worthy of respect, nor is this now multi trillion dollar business.

 

[stvdv]

This is in religious debates and so is open to everyone.

In trying to understand Christianity and what underpins it, I keep coming up against essentially the belief that the Torah isn't enough, it's not good enough, it doesn't do this or that

My belief is between me and God

If I try to understand Christianity
It keeps coming back to essentially
The first two major Commandments

Any judgmental beliefs going against these 2
Well, I guess that's for them to get clean with

 

[TrueBeliever37]

The gospels also mention that Jesus is not God. "Why do you call me good? Only God is good." Even the Gospel of John says that the Son has less power than the Father.

The messiah himself said he had all power in heaven and earth. Matthew 28:18

 

[TrueBeliever37]

No. It's "until heaven and earth pass away."

"Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Messiah came to fulfill the law, and he did. If you fulfill a prophecy it is completed.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Give me a verse, any verse from any of the four gospels, where Jesus goes to address a gentile crowd.

He was going to gather in the lost sheep of the house of Israel first, then it would turn to include the gentiles.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Israel Shahak’s Jewish History, Jewish Religion

That's a good book.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

The gospels also mention that Jesus is not God. "Why do you call me good? Only God is good." Even the Gospel of John says that the Son has less power than the Father.

He was definitely God manifest in the flesh. That's him in the book of Revelation sitting on the great white throne judging.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

The plain reading of ALL the prophecies refer to one or more promised Messianic Kings to lead Hebrews to restore the Nation of Israel.

Jesus DID NOT fulfill these prophecies.

Yes he did. It wasn't going to be a natural kingdom anymore. It was a spiritual kingdom. There were 144,000 Jews - 12K out of each tribe that accepted him. They were the first fruits. Then he turned it to whosoever will. Which includes both Jews and Gentiles.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

The complicated truth is that the NT promotes more than one idea, and these ideas contradict. There are verses that indicate Jesus is not God. And there are other verses that indicate he is. So most people, in response to that, focus in on a subset of verses and ignore the rest.

For example:
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

God is a spirit. He took on a body to sacrifice for sins. God dwelt in that body. It had to be a body that could die, in order to shed blood. The Spirit can't die, but the body could. (Most of christianity thinks it was another person.)