Torn Between Two Places.

[unknownsoul]

*waves to everyone* Hiya. Not exactly sure if this is the right place to post this, but posting anyway. If it's not the right place, please let me know so I can be sure for next time. Thank you.

I'm Roman Catholic, and I guess I've been more or less alright in my faith until somewhat recently. Well, I've had some shakeups in the past, such as being attracted to Wicca and tarot and runes and such, have owned them, have thrown them away after a few days, have checked books out from the library on the subject of Wicca. But lately I've stirred up the waters of calm a bit too much.

Been reading the book "Dance of the Dissident Daughter" by Sue Monk Kidd lately (for those who don't know what it's about, it's basically about the author's move from patriarchy to the Sacred Feminine). Also been reading a teen book on Wicca. And well, desires for something more in my life have arisen. It's true that I've tended to view Wicca/Paganism through a rosy-colored lens, romanticizing it, thinking about spell-casting, but lately I've slowly been grasping the thought that okay, spell-casting isn't the main thing in Wicca. I know. However, I have desires for rituals, perhaps desires to contact the Sacred Feminine, I could write an essay on here, but I'd rather not throw up that much text.

However, just the thought of trying things out...I don't know. Bad or good? I don't want to commit heresy or apostatize. And I'm finding that even flipping through some Catholic books I have rubs me the wrong way, their content. Maybe the feminist slant of the Sue Monk Kidd book I'm reading has infected my mind. I don't know anymore, I could say that. The truth of the Church is in my face. I think I read once that if you turn your back on the truth knowingly, that's a big sin. So really, what am I doing reading these books? Disturbing my peace of mind.

So...I don't know. Has anyone here been through this before? How did you work through it? I guess I'm looking for permission to do what I feel, but in the end it's up to me to decide what to do. I'm afraid of damning myself though. Severing myself from the Church somehow. Do I want to integrate some things from other faiths into my Catholic faith? Is it okay? Though some could ask, "Why? The Catholic faith has enough rituals, beliefs, traditions. Why are you searching for more? You don't need more."

Then why do I feel this? Some could say it's the devil that's tempting me. Is it? Kinda feel like I'm going a little crazy. And definitely have felt angry too. Frustrated.

Anyway...I'm not sure what to do. I'm somewhat afraid of speaking to a priest about this, because I expect he'd probably say something like stop reading the previously mentioned books and any other similar books I may have, and just pray and etc. Which...I probably should do...*headdesks* Yeah, this has turned into an essay, sorry. I'm actually afraid of any replies I might get here. Like perhaps I'll have some stern replies telling me to stop what I'm doing and repent or something? *laughs, sweatdrops*

Anyway, thank you for reading and for any replies sent my way in any case. Blessings.

 

[jelly]

yeah its called deconversion.
it is a tumultuous experience but once you go through it you can live with what other people think about you even if you disagree.

 

[Zardoz]

*waves to everyone* Hiya. Not exactly sure if this is the right place to post this, but posting anyway. If it's not the right place, please let me know so I can be sure for next time. Thank you. ...

There is a Catholic DIR forum, it may be better to post this there. I can move it for you, or any staff can. You can also post questions in the Wicca DIR, for those of that faith to reply.

 

[unknownsoul]

There is a Catholic DIR forum, it may be better to post this there. I can move it for you, or any staff can. You can also post questions in the Wicca DIR, for those of that faith to reply.

If you could move it, I'd be grateful. Thank you. And I'll probably post in the Wiccan forum too. Thanks.

 

[Zardoz]

Whoosh.... off we go!

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

*waves to everyone* Hiya. Not exactly sure if this is the right place to post this, but posting anyway. If it's not the right place, please let me know so I can be sure for next time. Thank you.

I'm Roman Catholic, and I guess I've been more or less alright in my faith until somewhat recently. Well, I've had some shakeups in the past, such as being attracted to Wicca and tarot and runes and such, have owned them, have thrown them away after a few days, have checked books out from the library on the subject of Wicca. But lately I've stirred up the waters of calm a bit too much.

Been reading the book "Dance of the Dissident Daughter" by Sue Monk Kidd lately (for those who don't know what it's about, it's basically about the author's move from patriarchy to the Sacred Feminine). Also been reading a teen book on Wicca. And well, desires for something more in my life have arisen. It's true that I've tended to view Wicca/Paganism through a rosy-colored lens, romanticizing it, thinking about spell-casting, but lately I've slowly been grasping the thought that okay, spell-casting isn't the main thing in Wicca. I know. However, I have desires for rituals, perhaps desires to contact the Sacred Feminine, I could write an essay on here, but I'd rather not throw up that much text.

However, just the thought of trying things out...I don't know. Bad or good? I don't want to commit heresy or apostatize. And I'm finding that even flipping through some Catholic books I have rubs me the wrong way, their content. Maybe the feminist slant of the Sue Monk Kidd book I'm reading has infected my mind. I don't know anymore, I could say that. The truth of the Church is in my face. I think I read once that if you turn your back on the truth knowingly, that's a big sin. So really, what am I doing reading these books? Disturbing my peace of mind.

So...I don't know. Has anyone here been through this before? How did you work through it? I guess I'm looking for permission to do what I feel, but in the end it's up to me to decide what to do. I'm afraid of damning myself though. Severing myself from the Church somehow. Do I want to integrate some things from other faiths into my Catholic faith? Is it okay? Though some could ask, "Why? The Catholic faith has enough rituals, beliefs, traditions. Why are you searching for more? You don't need more."

Then why do I feel this? Some could say it's the devil that's tempting me. Is it? Kinda feel like I'm going a little crazy. And definitely have felt angry too. Frustrated.

Anyway...I'm not sure what to do. I'm somewhat afraid of speaking to a priest about this, because I expect he'd probably say something like stop reading the previously mentioned books and any other similar books I may have, and just pray and etc. Which...I probably should do...*headdesks* Yeah, this has turned into an essay, sorry. I'm actually afraid of any replies I might get here. Like perhaps I'll have some stern replies telling me to stop what I'm doing and repent or something? *laughs, sweatdrops*

Anyway, thank you for reading and for any replies sent my way in any case. Blessings.

Thoughts are the only truth you will ever subject yourself to. Don't suppress them.

 

[unknownsoul]

Thank you FlyingTeaPot for your reply. I'm trying to not suppress my thoughts.

And for everyone, here's an update on my thoughts, triggered by a post I found on Tumblr. Or, rather, this is a post I made on Tumblr regarding the post I found on Tumblr (confusing, yes ). I don't mean to offend anybody with some parts in this post. I'm sorry if it does at all, it wasn't and isn't my intention. I just need...some help. *rests chin in hand, thinks* Just not sure. Not sure.

"As Christianity has weakened in consumer societies, superstition, Wicca and dabbling in the occult have grown. Ouija boards and videogames swarming with demons may seem like harmless fun; but they’re not. They open the door, even if only so slightly, to a very real and unhealthy darkness. Closing that dark door can only be done through personal confession and renouncing the occult in Jesus’ name. In fact, it’s worth reading Scripture about fortune-tellers and those who toy with the spirit world: The Bible is ferocious in rejecting anything that hints of the occult precisely because it violates the First Commandment and the sovereignty of God. There is no God but God; and every occult or spiritual alternative to the true God is the work of God’s (and humanity’s) Enemy." ~ Archbishop Charles Chaput (Denver)

So...spiritual alternatives to the true God are the work of God's (and humanity's) Enemy. So then...what about the experiences of people who leave Christianity for Wicca or Paganism or something else?

Well, the Bible mentions the devil disguising himself as "an angel of light", and he's the deceiver, the father of lies, so could he be deceiving millions and millions of people who have non-Christian experiences? And even seemingly "Christian" experiences? (I'm talking about angelic apparitions here.) It's possible, even likely.

Also, Catholics for hundreds and hundreds of years have been having visions of Heaven, Hell, Purgatory, Jesus, Mary and the Saints. Even recently, a boy named Colton Burpo (not Catholic!) had a vision of Heaven as a young child when he had undergone surgery (his story can be read in the book "Heaven Is For Real" by Todd Burpo, his father), and his story doesn't 100% conflict with Catholicism (I think anyway). And what of the apparitions of the Virgin Mary and her calls to repentance and prayer?

Do we DARE dismiss Christianity? Do we DARE dismiss Catholic Christianity?

*leans back and thinks, sighs*

It just makes me wonder about things. I read once that towards the end of the 19th century, a Pope (I think) received a message saying that the devil would be unleashed (?) in the 20th century. So is the resurgence of Paganism, along with the appearance of the New Age movement and alternate spiritualities, the fruit of that? Are millions, perhaps even more, being deceived? Am I trying to buy into the deception, trying to pull away from the challenges of Catholic Christianity, when I should be praying to be able to accept things? Am I leading people INTO the deception by making my faith journey journals public and even questioning Catholic Christian teaching FOR THE WRONG REASONS? Am I damning my soul and dragging others with me?

I'm probably going to post this in a religion forum I found last night. See what others say. But really, does it matter what others say, when it just looks like The Catholic Church has the answers and the truth all the way around? How can you knock down the truth? You can run from it, turn your back on it, but that doesn't make it any less real, any less truthful, any less rock-solid.

So then do I just...*shrugs*...tough it out? Whatever feelings I have of fuzzy, rosy-colored spirituality and ritual and such, do I just push them away? What should I look for? Do I have to accept some sort of rigidness? I dunno. It's not like I'm being required to wear dresses or cover my head (though I know there are Catholics that still do this, traditional Catholics, and even came across a book that seemed to look down on women wearing pants because pants pull attention to a woman's crotch area, I guess, and I'd say her backside, too). I'm not in some 100% restrictive atmosphere (though I really do hate it when my dad gets all preachy), though I'm not exactly sure WHAT sort of atmosphere would be acceptable in Catholicism, to be 100% in line with the Church. What I mean is, if you do a search through the forums.catholic.com forum, you'll find varied opinions. Like some will probably say rock music is bad, or rock music in church isn't great (I guess), or perhaps more modern songs aren't good, some women will probably be for head coverings, or dresses, and etc. So, what I mean is...

WHO. IS. RIGHT?

WHAT. IS. RIGHT?

Would a sort of Celtic slant to Catholicism be okay? A sort of Native slant? A connection to nature? Rituals? Dance?

Maybe not spells, maybe not...

DO I know what I want?

Can I worship God as a She? Is it possible? Though WHY is that necessary, me? What would the point be??

So anyway...that's about it from me for now. Yep...not sure. :\

 

[Mister Emu]

Hi.

The truth of the Church is in my face. I think I read once that if you turn your back on the truth knowingly, that's a big sin. So really, what am I doing reading these books?

This part confuses me... do you know that the Church holds the truth?

So...I don't know. Has anyone here been through this before?

I seriously considered Druidism(and Judaism).

How did you work through it?

Prayer, discussion, research and thoughtful consideration.

Do I want to integrate some things from other faiths into my Catholic faith? Is it okay?

I'd talk with you priest about the specifics, because it really depends... if you want to incorporate respect for nature into Catholicism, probably okay... if you want to incorporate magic, probably not. Like I said, something I would talk with your priest about, whether or not it jives with the faith.

Though some could ask, "Why? The Catholic faith has enough rituals, beliefs, traditions. Why are you searching for more? You don't need more."

They'd be wrongheaded.

Have you ever been to a divine liturgy of the Eastern Rites of the Catholic Church? They aren't necessarily more, but if you are feeling that the Latin rite isn't fulfilling you spiritually, you could certainly try it. Different traditions centered around the same faith.

You talk about the sacred feminine... and while Mary isn't divine, she has quite the stature in the Church, have you ever been involved with Marian devotions?

WHO. IS. RIGHT?

WHAT. IS. RIGHT?

The Catholic Church is universal, it covers all cultures and peoples... people who want head coverings and those who don't, rock or hymns, pants or skirts... all of them can be Catholic. Now immodest dress, like mini-skirts and tube-tops or a guy in a speedo, that may be drawing the line.

Ultimately, no one is going to make you follow a certain religion, but I hope, and will pray, that you see the beautiful truth the Catholic Church holds and remain with her.

If you have anything you'd like to ask, go ahead.

 

[Quiddity]

*waves to everyone* Hiya. Not exactly sure if this is the right place to post this, but posting anyway. If it's not the right place, please let me know so I can be sure for next time. Thank you.

I'm Roman Catholic, and I guess I've been more or less alright in my faith until somewhat recently. Well, I've had some shakeups in the past, such as being attracted to Wicca and tarot and runes and such, have owned them, have thrown them away after a few days, have checked books out from the library on the subject of Wicca. But lately I've stirred up the waters of calm a bit too much.

I don’t know how old you are but I can tell you that many of my students have had very similar experiences. Some have actually left the Catholic Church altogether. Others explored and came back.

Been reading the book "Dance of the Dissident Daughter" by Sue Monk Kidd lately (for those who don't know what it's about, it's basically about the author's move from patriarchy to the Sacred Feminine). Also been reading a teen book on Wicca. And well, desires for something more in my life have arisen. It's true that I've tended to view Wicca/Paganism through a rosy-colored lens, romanticizing it, thinking about spell-casting, but lately I've slowly been grasping the thought that okay, spell-casting isn't the main thing in Wicca. I know. However, I have desires for rituals, perhaps desires to contact the Sacred Feminine, I could write an essay on here, but I'd rather not throw up that much text.

However, just the thought of trying things out...I don't know. Bad or good? I don't want to commit heresy or apostatize. And I'm finding that even flipping through some Catholic books I have rubs me the wrong way, their content. Maybe the feminist slant of the Sue Monk Kidd book I'm reading has infected my mind. I don't know anymore, I could say that. The truth of the Church is in my face. I think I read once that if you turn your back on the truth knowingly, that's a big sin. So really, what am I doing reading these books? Disturbing my peace of mind.

So...I don't know. Has anyone here been through this before? How did you work through it? I guess I'm looking for permission to do what I feel, but in the end it's up to me to decide what to do. I'm afraid of damning myself though. Severing myself from the Church somehow. Do I want to integrate some things from other faiths into my Catholic faith? Is it okay? Though some could ask, "Why? The Catholic faith has enough rituals, beliefs, traditions. Why are you searching for more? You don't need more."

Then why do I feel this? Some could say it's the devil that's tempting me. Is it? Kinda feel like I'm going a little crazy. And definitely have felt angry too. Frustrated.

Anyway...I'm not sure what to do. I'm somewhat afraid of speaking to a priest about this, because I expect he'd probably say something like stop reading the previously mentioned books and any other similar books I may have, and just pray and etc. Which...I probably should do...*headdesks* Yeah, this has turned into an essay, sorry. I'm actually afraid of any replies I might get here. Like perhaps I'll have some stern replies telling me to stop what I'm doing and repent or something? *laughs, sweatdrops*

Anyway, thank you for reading and for any replies sent my way in any case. Blessings.

Sue Monk was drawn in by mysticism and new age spirituality; a complete polar opposite to her Baptist upbringing, which leans toward a more legalistic way of worshipping. Free spirits don’t do well with any legalistic system that sets boundaries (even though the in the real world, it’s all about boundaries). So the question is, do you consider yourself a free spirit? Think about what that means.

Also, the priest will most likely tell you to stop reading that material. You need to understand that it’s a rare bird that leaves the Catholic Church with a full understanding of what they are leaving. They just know it has rules and that’s that. So this isn’t a form of suppression as some may suggest either, it’s actually quite the opposite. The priest wants you give the Church a fair chance. You can’t leave what you never knew.

Read up on some of the mysticism of the Catholic Chuch. I posted on this some time back. Give it a whirl:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/catholic-dir/52030-christian-mysticism-new-age-mysticism.html

I hope you find peace. :shout

 

[unknownsoul]

Hi.

This part confuses me... do you know that the Church holds the truth?

Hello. And, well, do I personally believe and know it holds the truth? *thinks* I tend to default to whatever the Church says, to be honest, despite my struggles (though I wonder if that makes me sheep-like). The church says it's the church founded by Jesus, so in my mind that would mean that it has the truth. Every other faith may have grains of truth, bits of truth (and I've read that the church recognizes the good in other faiths), but they're not the way, they don't have the whole. So really, any deviations I may be making from the Catholic path would, in a way, be mostly useless? :\ I suppose in a way I feel trapped here.

I'd talk with you priest about the specifics, because it really depends... if you want to incorporate respect for nature into Catholicism, probably okay... if you want to incorporate magic, probably not. Like I said, something I would talk with your priest about, whether or not it jives with the faith.

Yes...it looks more and more like I'm just going to have to end up doing that, getting a meeting set up with the priest at my parish. :\

They'd be wrongheaded.

Have you ever been to a divine liturgy of the Eastern Rites of the Catholic Church? They aren't necessarily more, but if you are feeling that the Latin rite isn't fulfilling you spiritually, you could certainly try it. Different traditions centered around the same faith.

You talk about the sacred feminine... and while Mary isn't divine, she has quite the stature in the Church, have you ever been involved with Marian devotions?

I've never been, no. To be honest, I'm not in a situation where I'd be able to go to another church to even try or look. Despite being 29, I still live with my parents, who are strongly Catholic, and to even suggest something like that would probably upset them, especially my mom. Really, they don't know I'm even asking these questions, even reading other material, and I'll probably never tell them, even if I were much older, just to give them one less issue to worry about.

I've had somewhat of an issue with Mary for years...I can't really explain the whats, hows, or whys of it. While I'm starting to open up a bit to the idea of Mary, it's slow-going I guess.

The Catholic Church is universal, it covers all cultures and peoples... people who want head coverings and those who don't, rock or hymns, pants or skirts... all of them can be Catholic. Now immodest dress, like mini-skirts and tube-tops or a guy in a speedo, that may be drawing the line.

Ultimately, no one is going to make you follow a certain religion, but I hope, and will pray, that you see the beautiful truth the Catholic Church holds and remain with her.

If you have anything you'd like to ask, go ahead.

I guess I tend to view things as rigid sometimes, not fluid. Like perhaps some section of Catholics are in the wrong and some are more in line with the Church. And this may be pertinent to this conversation, not sure, but years ago I dealt with really bad scrupulosity, it was a horrible, terrible time. I don't know if I'm still under the effects of it or not, to be honest. Granted, I'm probably very liberal now in comparison to how I was when I was in the throes of it, but there are still things in me that make me question and fear.

I appreciate your prayers. I would like to see the beauty and truth it holds, but right now I'm blinded by other things. I feel resistant. It's upsetting. I don't know what to do. I'm at the point where I don't want to see anything that feels even remotely restrictive, anything that will say "no" to this or "no" to that, or this is a sin and that's a sin. Maybe I still am scrupulous. Or maybe I do have justifiable issues that require me to restrain myself in certain areas. I just want freedom. And, at least at this moment, the idea of restraining myself isn't appealing at all.

Thank you for replying though. As I said, I appreciate your prayers. *smiles* God bless.

 

[unknownsoul]

I don’t know how old you are but I can tell you that many of my students have had very similar experiences. Some have actually left the Catholic Church altogether. Others explored and came back.

I'm actually 29. A sort of childish 29, but yeah.

Sue Monk was drawn in by mysticism and new age spirituality; a complete polar opposite to her Baptist upbringing, which leans toward a more legalistic way of worshipping. Free spirits don’t do well with any legalistic system that sets boundaries (even though the in the real world, it’s all about boundaries). So the question is, do you consider yourself a free spirit? Think about what that means.

I'm not sure exactly what that would mean..do you mean free spirits don't do well with rules and such? Restrictions? If so, I know that some rules are in place for good reasons. Same with restrictions. But, at least in my case, as I mentioned in my reply to Mister Emu, after having dealt with scrupulosity in the past, which restricted me quite a bit (though I know, at least somewhat, that scrupulosity doesn't reflect Catholicism), the idea of going through that again, and willingly, isn't so great. Maybe I just need to learn more about what being Catholic really is all about. I don't know.

Also, the priest will most likely tell you to stop reading that material. You need to understand that it’s a rare bird that leaves the Catholic Church with a full understanding of what they are leaving. They just know it has rules and that’s that. So this isn’t a form of suppression as some may suggest either, it’s actually quite the opposite. The priest wants you give the Church a fair chance. You can’t leave what you never knew.

I think I might be in that place. Only knowing (or at least only focusing on that aspect) that it has rules. Rules on top of rules. Mortal sin and venial sin and don't do this, and do that, etc. Sorry for the vague examples in my reply, by the way. It all just seems to come together into this vague hill of NO in my head. I'm just emotionally overwhelmed right now.

Read up on some of the mysticism of the Catholic Chuch. I posted on this some time back. Give it a whirl:

I hope you find peace. :shout

Thank you for the link. And I'm actually starting to read a couple of books on Catholic mysticism. Hopefully I can find answers there. I'm also reading a couple of books on Celtic Christianity, since I've felt a pull there before.

I also hope I find peace. Thank you. God bless.

 

[ninerbuff]

Being a former catholic myself, the main reasons why I don't follow it (or any religion now) were the sacraments (which many had nothing to really do with the bible), the reluctance of use of contraception, and the vatican retaining it gold and money rather than using it to assist and help those in the church who truly really need the assistance. Lots of the money is used to recruit priests and nuns.
If you're questioning your faith, then really find out about origin. That's a good place to start.

 

[Jordan St. Francis]

Hey unknown soul,

I just wanted to let you know that I understand very well how you are feeling. For my part, I spent a few years drifting through highly liberal forms of Christianity, Eastern mysticism and Gnosticism.

When I get a chance (soon), I'd like to comment a bit on what you've said.

 

[unknownsoul]

Hey unknown soul,

I just wanted to let you know that I understand very well how you are feeling. For my part, I spent a few years drifting through highly liberal forms of Christianity, Eastern mysticism and Gnosticism.

When I get a chance (soon), I'd like to comment a bit on what you've said.

I'm glad I'm understood. Just curious, but what liberal forms of Christianity did you drift through?

Okay, I await your post.

 

[Mister Emu]

I tend to default to whatever the Church says, to be honest, despite my struggles (though I wonder if that makes me sheep-like).

That doesn't make you sheep-like(though we are the God's flock ) It means you have the wisdom to accede to the accumulated wisdom of the ages, no mean thing.

The church says it's the church founded by Jesus, so in my mind that would mean that it has the truth. Every other faith may have grains of truth, bits of truth (and I've read that the church recognizes the good in other faiths), but they're not the way, they don't have the whole. So really, any deviations I may be making from the Catholic path would, in a way, be mostly useless?

I agree that the Church has the Truth. I'd also note that there is a difference between variations within the Church and deviations from the Church. I don't really do the whole saints thing, I've never felt comfortable(which probably is a result of my Baptist upbringing) with it. That doesn't mean I'm less Catholic than someone who does ask the saints to pray for them. Just different.

Yes...it looks more and more like I'm just going to have to end up doing that, getting a meeting set up with the priest at my parish. :\

It shouldn't be a bad thing The priest is there to care for the congregation spiritually after all.

To be honest, I'm not in a situation where I'd be able to go to another church to even try or look. Despite being 29, I still live with my parents, who are strongly Catholic, and to even suggest something like that would probably upset them, especially my mom.

I don't know if it matters, but the Eastern Rite Churches are 100% Catholic, in communion with the Pope. The only difference is in the expression of the faith.

I've had somewhat of an issue with Mary for years...I can't really explain the whats, hows, or whys of it. While I'm starting to open up a bit to the idea of Mary, it's slow-going I guess.

I completely understand, as I said above, I have personal issues with the whole thing, and it is slow going for me too

I guess I tend to view things as rigid sometimes, not fluid. Like perhaps some section of Catholics are in the wrong and some are more in line with the Church.

Well, in some respects fluid and some rigid. There are segments of the Catholic laity pushing for ideas that are not in line with the dogmatic teachings of the Church, but there is also room for diversity.

And this may be pertinent to this conversation, not sure, but years ago I dealt with really bad scrupulosity, it was a horrible, terrible time.

I'm sorry, and such terrible situations tend to leave a psychological impact...

I don't know what to do. I'm at the point where I don't want to see anything that feels even remotely restrictive, anything that will say "no" to this or "no" to that, or this is a sin and that's a sin.

Everything I want to say here sounds very preachy, even inside my head, and I don't believe that is either what you want... I'll try to respond to this later

Thank you for replying though.

It is my pleasure...

God bless.