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Train tracks and god

WonderingWorrier

Active Member
The person I took this from didn't give details. The idea is you have a child and adult, who do you save.


So your idea is only comparing a child with an adult. You want to know which one has more value, either an adult, or a child.


Do we need to know who people are to think about their lives and wellbeing?

To make a more informed decision. Yes.
Like if the adult was a doctor who saves multiple lives everyday.
Like if the child was suffering from a terminal illness.

Information can change decisions.

We could also think about the lives and wellbeing of the people around the child and adult in question. And so on.

And if we choose one or the other would we play God or let god pick one without our intervention?


We always weigh our decisions in our own balance.
And we act according to the knowledge that we have at the time.
The more we know, the better our decisions can be.
That is who we are.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
So your idea is only comparing a child with an adult. You want to know which one has more value, either an adult, or a child.

No. I believe both are the same value. What I'm asking is which would you save if you do in relation to gods will and whether your choice interfers with his will.

To make a more informed decision. Yes.
Like if the adult was a doctor who saves multiple lives everyday.

Like if the child was suffering from a terminal illness.

Information can change decisions.

We could also think about the lives and wellbeing of the people around the child and adult in question. And so on.

We would.

We always weigh our decisions in our own balance.
And we act according to the knowledge that we have at the time.

The more we know, the better our decisions can be.
That is who we are.

Which would be your decision or if you don't decide would you let god make the choice regardless how implesant it may be?
 
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I got this idea from this thread.

I think a lot of believers feel they cannot think like god, question god, or know what he will and will not do. How would one try to put themselves in line with god.

When something goes wrong and a believer find it hard to explain, it's god's timing. A lot of the bad things that happens in this world either from the perspective of god testing us, god watching, from sin, or just not involved as we expect, there is still a consensus that "god will handle it."

If you're on a train track and child is on one side of the fork and three old men bickering on the other which direction would you pull the lever?

If you pull it in either direction would that mean you're playing god?

Is it better to let the train go by itself and whoever it hits is "god's will" or fate?

What would you do (or not do) and why?
I think the question is in the wrong universe!

A better question that is more inclusive and relatable is - if you were in the DCEU, and Flash was buzzing along a railway track at near the speed of light and Superman was in his way at the fork junction but can't meet him head on lest a immovable object meets a irresistible force type event occurs. So Superman can only swat Flash left or right along the railroad track. On the left is Lois Lane and on the right is Batman, Robin and Batgirl. Who would you chose to die from Flash overload if you were Superman?

Wait, if the unbeliever has a preference to tights and capes...
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I think the question is in the wrong universe!

A better question that is more inclusive and relatable is - if you were in the DCEU, and Flash was buzzing along a railway track at near the speed of light and Superman was in his way at the fork junction but can't meet him head on lest a immovable object meets a irresistible force type event occurs. So Superman can only swat Flash left or right along the railroad track. On the left is Lois Lane and on the right is Batman, Robin and Batgirl. Who would you chose to die from Flash overload if you were Superman?

Wait, if the unbeliever has a preference to tights and capes...
Superman can't swat Flash upward so that he clears all of them?

And Superman can make time run backwards. He did it in the first Superman movie - to undo Lois Lane's death, relevantly - so I assume it's canon.
 
Superman can't swat Flash upward so that he clears all of them?

And Superman can make time run backwards. He did it in the first Superman movie - to undo Lois Lane's death, relevantly - so I assume it's canon.
But isn't that the Star Trek Universe in the Wrath of Khan and that darned 3D chess! Ok...ok... Flash in a hyperloop tube! But there is the darned time travel thing. Ok...ok... Let's change universes to the MCU. The Hulk, Thor, Jane Foster and 3 guys with whom Thor hangs out, Volstagg, Hogun, and Fandral. In a hyperloop tube! With unbreakable walls... Antman and his time travel stuff is dead...
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
I got this idea from this thread.

I think a lot of believers feel they cannot think like god, question god, or know what he will and will not do. How would one try to put themselves in line with god.

When something goes wrong and a believer find it hard to explain, it's god's timing. A lot of the bad things that happens in this world either from the perspective of god testing us, god watching, from sin, or just not involved as we expect, there is still a consensus that "god will handle it."

If you're on a train track and child is on one side of the fork and three old men bickering on the other which direction would you pull the lever?

If you pull it in either direction would that mean you're playing god?

Is it better to let the train go by itself and whoever it hits is "god's will" or fate?

What would you do (or not do) and why?

Believing God cannot be understood by humans etc is a completely different matter. Letting a train go as it is, is absolutely another. I dont see any causation for the latter whatsoever.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
I don't understand what you mean by causation?

Can you clarify?

It could be that I had not understood your post very well, so if that is the case, I apologise in advance.

What I am saying is that the notion of we are human and we dont understand God or that God is beyond our realm or capacity does not cause us to be daft enough to not move a so called train and just let go as it goes.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
There is no evidence to suggest that GOD EVER INTERVENES.
Nor does he play games with levers.
The. Holy Spirit may comfort and guide us.
But what happens in this world is largely down to us and all living creatures.

We are God's hand feet and eyes on this world. What we do can be for the benefit of the world or a disservice to the world. The choice is ours. The Holy Spirit will guide us but nothing else. We have brains capable of thinking for ourselves, and we should do so.

However many people lean on the decisions , thoughts and imaginings of people from ancient times, who established the religions still followed today.

We are grown up, we should be thinking for ourselves.

Our thoughts about God are as valid now as they have been at any time.
Many of the thoughts and ideas that have come down to us, are now proved to be wrong, it is incumbent on us to take responsibility for what we believe and how we view and worship God, in a way that does not deny our knowledge of science and the universe.

Back to your rails and levers.
It is a fictional scenario, so there is no need to make any decisions at this time, but be prepared to face that particular prospect if it ever becomes reality. To do so before the event with out benefit of reality is damaging to sanity.
 

Rawshak

Member
Being serious, I would save the kid, reasons.

If I was one of the old men that is what I would want to me to do, many adults would give up their life to save a child. I am not sure I would be happy if someone saved me and let a child die.
 

WonderingWorrier

Active Member
No. I believe both are the same value. What I'm asking is which would you save if you do in relation to gods will and whether your choice interfers with his will.



We would.



Which would be your decision or if you don't decide would you let god make the choice regardless how implesant it may be?

It is my will to do what is right.
And trying to decide what is right.

So you would not pull the lever to save one over the other and just let it happen the way it is.
To make a decision they would not have the same value.
Deciding factor/s would tip the scales in favour of one of them.


First thought could be to save the child.

Based on the information, the decision is the value of time.

Is more time more valuable than less time.

The adult has had more time of individual development of mind and body, and has less possible lifetime remaining.

The child has more possible lifetime remaining, and has had less time of individual development of mind and body.


The value of possible lifetime is not certain.
But the current time of development is certain.

A logical decision may choose certainty rather than imagining possibility.

The level of development of the individual could tip the scales.

It would be like choosing to save the adult dog or the puppy.
If you can value dogs and humans as the same.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
If you let god decide which option to interfer by adding an option god didn't have originally, it's playing God.

Changing the rules of the game.

Sorry, I don't think that would be the same as playing God, or changing the rules. I think God wants us to love others and do good. That means, if I see someone needing help, the rule is that i do my best to help.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Sorry, I don't think that would be the same as playing God, or changing the rules. I think God wants us to love others and do good. That means, if I see someone needing help, the rule is that i do my best to help.

How I see it is god set everything up in life as the creator. People live and people die. We would be changing fate if we felt we had the control over life and death. Ideally, wouldn't god have control over that regardless how well our intentions are?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
How I see it is god set everything up in life as the creator. People live and people die. We would be changing fate if we felt we had the control over life and death. Ideally, wouldn't god have control over that regardless how well our intentions are?
If we are speaking about the God of the Bible then it would be the Bible itself that gives the correct answers on this subject.
The truth is, that in the Genesis account there is no mention of death (ageing, sickness or suffering) unless the humans disobeyed that one simple command of their God. We know that they were both tempted into disobedience by someone else. For the woman, it was the one masquerading as "the serpent"...but for the man, it was the woman whom God had given him, (by extension, blaming God). It is apparent that people who leave God are prone to blaming others for their faults, or for the bad things that happen to them.

Instead of owning their mistakes they palm them off on someone else. Instead of seeing the repercussions of own their errors and putting the blame where it lies, they will find someone else to blame...even God. Its nothing new.

When humans left God...he left them, to their own devices......virtually handing their future over to them, but never did he leave then without guidance. Only when we put that guidance into practice do we have God's approval. But he will still not interfere with our choices. He will provide guidance on what to do, but the rest is up to us. His approval will eventually lead to being granted citizenship in his incoming Kingdom, and to then enjoy the life that he originally planned for us here on this earth in the beginning.

For those who think that the Creator can be brushed aside in order to pursue their own will and desires, he is allowing people to do that too....but not forever. The Bible speaks of "salvation" but many Christians have no idea what it is that they are being "saved" from.....or for. There will come a time for an accounting, according to the scriptures. What we will be "saved" from is God's anger that will be expressed towards all opposers....it is his planet when all said and done....he will choose the kind of people he wants to stay here and enjoy it.

At the end of the day we are showing the Creator who we really are, every day that we live. We are created with a need for worship...it is part of our human nature (to which history will attest) and it's what separates us from the animals. How we implement that need in our lives is interesting, because all humans follow a common pattern of sorts.

They have personalities that they elevate above others, and these can become their idols...people upon which they might want to model themselves, in their speech, or dress, ideas or behavior.....or at least take extra notice of what they do and say, and identify with them in their minds.

There are also the writings or opinions of these ones that form the basis of their own beliefs, and they seek out this information on a regular basis because of its appeal...it is feeding something in them.

Humans also have a need to share these things with others of like mind, and to reinforce what the collective accepts as truth. We find fellowship and comfort in being part of a collective.....the more members, the more comfortable and confident we feel.

Now apply that formula to just about anything that takes our interest. Religion...sport....hobbies....fitness...science or whatever other thing captures human interest and causes them to devote their time to these things.

God is not choosing what happens to any of us, nor will he prevent bad things happening to good people because he has stepped back to allow the 'pretender' god to rule us on the auspices that he could do a better job. If God intervened, he would be siding with his adversary. We have to observe the full impact of the devil's rulership down here in order to see where living without God's guidance takes us.....

We have to remember that whatever God allows, he can reverse......even death. (Isaiah 65:17) He will cleanse the earth of all who want to ruin it and renew everything. (Revelation 21:3-4) We can be part of his solution or remain part of his problem.

That is what I believe that the Bible teaches.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
How I see it is god set everything up in life as the creator. People live and people die. We would be changing fate if we felt we had the control over life and death. Ideally, wouldn't god have control over that regardless how well our intentions are?

I think God has control over everything. I just don't think it means we can't or should not do what is good and right. If for example "saving life" would be against God's will, we just are not successful in that, but I don't think it is wrong to do so, when it is not forbidden.
 
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