Transgender etiquette (identity pronoun game)

[Grumpuss]

I don't have a problem with a person who wants to change their sex. I have a problem understanding it and dealing with it because it is something that I've never had to deal with before.

Do you have a priest or other clergy member you can ask about it?

Confusion is part of life, but if it is causing you undue distress, I suggest such a person would be a good place to start.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If the study of transsexuality is your field of expertise, then I assume you would be familiar with selection bias. You seem to ignore a great many sources that dispute your claims without even giving them equal value.

I've read of people who do regret it, and of those that do regret it they typically have different reasons (though often it revolves around the hardships of being accepted in society). However, they are a minority. If you decide to read the WPATH Standards of Care I posted, it contains numerous studies that show very few regret it, and a very large "super" majority show tremendous improvements in psychological well being. And, yes, it even includes things like regret and suicide.
You're making these bold assumptions, and they are false.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't have a problem with a person who wants to change their sex. I have a problem understanding it and dealing with it because it is something that I've never had to deal with before.

If you have any questions, feel free to PM me. I have literally spent my entire life researching the subject, and I have a vast depth of knowledge on the subject. Plus it also counts as giving you experience in interacting with someone who is transsexual.

 

[Grumpuss]

I've read of people who do regret it, and of those that do regret it they typically have different reasons (though often it revolves around the hardships of being accepted in society). However, they are a minority. If you decide to read the WPATH Standards of Care I posted, it contains numerous studies that show very few regret it, and a very large "super" majority show tremendous improvements in psychological well being. And, yes, it even includes things like regret and suicide.
You're making these bold assumptions, and they are false.

You're guilty of selection bias.

These "bold assumptions" are not mine, btw. Be careful of ever believing you have all the answers.

 

[First Baseman]

Do you have a priest or other clergy member you can ask about it?

Confusion is part of life, but if it is causing you undue distress, I suggest such a person would be a good place to start.

Excellent suggestion. Maybe I will consult a priest or deacon about it.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Excellent suggestion. Maybe I will consult a priest or deacon about it.

Why not talk to trans people? There's two of us in this thread as it is. Most clergy have no idea about it.

 

[First Baseman]

If you have any questions, feel free to PM me. I have literally spent my entire life researching the subject, and I have a vast depth of knowledge on the subject. Plus it also counts as giving you experience in interacting with someone who is transsexual.

I will. I have learned a lot already just from this thread. I will do my utmost best in the future to try and not refer to a person by the wrong gender or call someone an "it." That was rather thoughtless of me and the fact that I did it without thinking is no good excuse.

 

[First Baseman]

Why not talk to trans people? There's two of us in this thread as it is. Most clergy have no idea about it.

That was my thinking, too. Jesus loves everyone and commands us to love everyone, too, without any stipulations.

 

[Grumpuss]

I will. I have learned a lot already just from this thread. I will do my utmost best in the future to try and not refer to a person by the wrong gender or call someone an "it." That was rather thoughtless of me and the fact that I did it without thinking is no good excuse.

It's not entirely your fault. Transsexual people themselves often have difficulty explaining it. I think much of the problem is that the English language doesn't have a "neuter" pronoun like many others, and the word, "it" is a poor substitute.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You're guilty of selection bias.

No, I am not. You are trying to claim I am, even though I acknowledged some people do regret it.
But how many books have you read on the subject? How many peer-reviewed articles have you read? How many transsexuals have you known? How many studies and statistics have you read? How many years of your life have you spent studying the subject?
All I am doing is stating what what science is revealing, and that is over 80%, and even over 90% in some studies, of transsexuals who have transitioned into their identified sex show tremendous psychological improvements, and that is in spite of social hardships. And I can pull studies from either APA, the AMA, or any other major psychological, psychiatric, medical, or counseling organization and their positions are congruent with mine.
So instead of accusing me of selection bias, how about you remove your blinders?

 

[freethinker44]

I don't have a problem with a person who wants to change their sex. I have a problem understanding it and dealing with it because it is something that I've never had to deal with before.

Yeah, that's kind of where I'm at. I don't really get it, but whatever, different strokes for folks. You want to be a man I'll call you a man, want to be a woman I'll call you a woman, I really don't care either way.
I just want to know how to handle it when their public or professional identity is tied to a gender they no longer associate with.
And it's not just limited to transgender identity, it's identity in general.

 

[Jumi]

That it came at the end of a troubled marriage involving 2 children and a massively popular reality TV show is more than a little suspicious.

If it's as popular as you say, then surely it doesn't need that. If it was a struggling show, then they could go for shock value. It's a big decision though, I don't think they would do it because of a show.

Where in modern America are such people killed?

This is an international site. It's not all about you guys. Though browsing the news, violence against sexual minorities isn't exactly uncommon in your country.

http://time.com/3999348/transgender-murders-2015/

For comparison in my country it was illegal to be gay a couple generations ago.

Seeking professional help, either from medical staff or clergy is probably a wiser course of action. Most reputable doctors specializing in gender reassignment won't ever proceed with surgery until a mental evaluation and significant period of observation have passed, is my understanding.

I'm not familiar with her case, but consultation is normal for any operation.

 

[Jumi]

Definitely not. It must be really tough for a person to be unhappy with their gender. I can't even imagine.

Indeed we can't imagine what it must be like. But if you've ever suffered yourself, you probably can have empathy.

 

[Grumpuss]

No, I am not. You are trying to claim I am, even though I acknowledged some people do regret it.
But how many books have you read on the subject? How many peer-reviewed articles have you read? How many transsexuals have you known? How many studies and statistics have you read? How many years of your life have you spent studying the subject?
All I am doing is stating what what science is revealing, and that is over 80%, and even over 90% in some studies, of transsexuals who have transitioned into their identified sex show tremendous psychological improvements, and that is in spite of social hardships. And I can pull studies from either APA, the AMA, or any other major psychological, psychiatric, medical, or counseling organization and their positions are congruent with mine.
So instead of accusing me of selection bias, how about you remove your blinders?

The answer to your questions is "many". Somehow I think that even if said 95% of my circle of friends, family and co-workers were trans, you would claim superiority on the subject.

I don't make judgments, for only legal authorities and The Almighty are fit to judge. I simply pointed out the issue is not so settled and black-and-white as you seem to be claiming. Putting out what you assert as a definitive source of scientific study on gender identity seems counterproductive when I easily pointed out that there was much that you have omitted. Did you even read the sources I provided to you before discounting them out of hand?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't make judgments, for only legal authorities and The Almighty are fit to judge. I simply pointed out the issue is not so settled and black-and-white as you seem to be claiming. Putting out what you assert as a definitive source of scientific study on gender identity seems counterproductive when I easily pointed out that there was much that you have omitted. Did you even read the sources I provided to you before discounting them out of hand?

I read them even before you posted them. And as I indicated, what I posted even includes regrets and suicides. I omitted nothing. What I posted is one of the most comprehensive sources on the subject that doesn't require a specialized background to understand. It's also one of the most widely used guides for therapists and educational materials for transsexuals.
I have a vast depth of scientific material to back up my claim that allowing someone with gender dysphoria to transition and live as their identified sex is a sound treatment plan that ameliorates gender dysphoria and many of the comorbid issues, such as depression and anxiety (it won't help with things like Asperger's syndrome, but that has no bearing on gender dysphoria even though there is a fairly high comorbidity between Asperger's and gender dysphoria).

 

[Grumpuss]

I read them even before you posted them. And as I indicated, what I posted even includes regrets and suicides. I omitted nothing. What I posted is one of the most comprehensive sources on the subject that doesn't require a specialized background to understand. It's also one of the most widely used guides for therapists and educational materials for transsexuals.
I have a vast depth of scientific material to back up my claim that allowing someone with gender dysphoria to transition and live as their identified sex is a sound treatment plan that ameliorates gender dysphoria and many of the comorbid issues, such as depression and anxiety (it won't help with things like Asperger's syndrome, but that has no bearing on gender dysphoria even though there is a fairly high comorbidity between Asperger's and gender dysphoria).

I will pray for you as well, Shadow. Have a blessed day!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The answer to your questions is "many". Somehow I think that even if said 95% of my circle of friends, family and co-workers were trans, you would claim superiority on the subject.

I don't make judgments, for only legal authorities and The Almighty are fit to judge. I simply pointed out the issue is not so settled and black-and-white as you seem to be claiming. Putting out what you assert as a definitive source of scientific study on gender identity seems counterproductive when I easily pointed out that there was much that you have omitted. Did you even read the sources I provided to you before discounting them out of hand?

I'm a trans guy and I can vouch for SW. Most of us are fine with the transition. The only problems most of us have come from other people.

 

[Acim]

Yeah, that's kind of where I'm at. I don't really get it, but whatever, different strokes for folks. You want to be a man I'll call you a man, want to be a woman I'll call you a woman, I really don't care either way.
I just want to know how to handle it when their public or professional identity is tied to a gender they no longer associate with.
And it's not just limited to transgender identity, it's identity in general.

I say handle it with honesty and respect or courtesy. Ya know, like a civilized person.

I'm not a transexual person. I self identify as male, and is what is on my birth certificate. I get called "m'am" occasionally. I'll be called by something that tells me the person I'm communicating with thinks I'm female. Sometimes I'll go through phases where this occurs like 5 times in a month. 85% of the time it humors me. When it is occurring frequently, it will upset me. If I ask any friend or family member if they think I look or sound female, all of them (so far no exceptions) say I always consistently come across to them as male. So, it surprises me when it happens, but nowhere near as much as the first 20 times it has occurred.

Anyway, I say all this cause I think I can relate to why any person would be upset for being referenced under gender term that they don't self identify with, but also do think some people (perhaps all people) could lighten up a bit on this topic.

It really seems extremely obvious to me that all people have feminine and masculine traits about them, that may come across in ways that no one but a stranger may notice. Or it could just be that strangers are displaying some form of ignorance, and that it is very likely an honest mistake. I personally think of myself as having feminine traits, and have no issues with that aspect of myself. Most of me realizes the masculine tendencies in myself, and is by far what I'm used to. But I've rarely ever thought of myself as exclusively male.

Would be interesting having been raised in a culture that was much more gender neutral. As I was not and don't feel the society I currently reside in, is very neutral, then questions like the one in OP and the confusion that many are facing, as society is going through a transitional period, strikes me as - very good questions to be asking. I think we all want to treat each other respectfully, and be true to our own beliefs, but also get confused by the gender roles that are very firmly established in our society. I honestly don't think transsexualism / transexuals make for a more gender neutral society. That, to me, has to do with a collective outlook on who we are as a people. I think we are making great progress, but surely there are going to be lots of bumps along the road before something closer to neutrality is the norm.

 

[The Mormonator]

I have dealt with a few in my position. They are generally as hard-working and intelligent as anyone else, but deeply conflicted about their place in society and carry significant emotional baggage.

I agree, the Leggy Butts that I work with are often spaced out and seem like something else is one their mind. I always thought it had something to do with wardrobe choices, but I see that it might be something deeper.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I agree, the Leggy Butts that I work with are often spaced out and seem like something else is one their mind. I always thought it had something to do with wardrobe choices, but I see that it might be something deeper.

"Leggy Butts"? Wtf. Wtf to that entire comment, really.