Transgender Law Makes North Carolina Pioneer in Bigotry

[Father Heathen]

It means, how are they going to say, any one can use any restroom. Think about it.

Still not sure what you're trying to say.

 

[fantome profane]

No one should be forced to do anything. I shouldn't be forced to go in the bathroom with other men but that is how society is setup. I would prefer no Gender restrooms, however, our society is not setup that way. Instead of focusing on allowing transgender or whoever trampling the rights of non-transgender force the issue of bathroom neutrality. I will support bathroom neutrality.

Ok, fair enough. But I have not seen or heard of any examples of transgender people "trampling on the rights of non-transgender". If you could actually give me an example of this happening that would help the issue.

I support bathroom neutrality as well. Perhaps in the future we will see more of that. But right now bills like the one in the OP are causing way more problems then they solve (in fact there really is no problem that needs this bill). And it is based on nothing more than bigotry. It is political, and it is the powerful trying to gain more power by attacking the weak. And that makes me angry. Attacking transgender people is an easy way to score points with little risk.

Just let the people pee!

 

[bobhikes]

We already do trust them.
I've yet to see a lavatory where security guards check the customer's gender status to use it.
Because most trans folk go (note pun) unnoticed, this means enforcement would be haphazard & rare.
The result would be for many to ignore the law.
But an unlucky few would be selectively prosecuted, & badly mangled in the cogs of the 'justice' system.
This is bad law.

I agree with everything but an unlucky few. They would have to draw attention to themselves to be prosecuted. People don't just go looking in stalls for transgender people. Transgendered are more concerned with Gyms and changing rooms which fall under private ownership. Public beaches typically have stalls. The private owners are reluctant to change because transgender people are a minority. I am reluctant to use government intervention to force this change.

 

[bobhikes]

Ok, fair enough. But I have not seen or heard of any examples of transgender people "trampling on the rights of non-transgender". If you could actually give me an example of this happening that would help the issue.

I support bathroom neutrality as well. Perhaps in the future we will see more of that. But right now bills like the one in the OP are causing way more problems then they solve (in fact there really is no problem that needs this bill). And it is based on nothing more than bigotry. It is political, and it is the powerful trying to gain more power by attacking the weak. And that makes me angry. Attacking transgender people is an easy way to score points with little risk.

Just let the people pee!

See Revoltingest reply and my response. Its not about bathroom's anyway.

 

[fantome profane]

See Revoltingest reply and my response. Its not about bathroom's anyway.

You need to take a closer loot at the bill. It is about bathrooms.

 

[Revoltingest]

I agree with everything but an unlucky few. They would have to draw attention to themselves to be prosecuted. People don't just go looking in stalls for transgender people. Transgendered are more concerned with Gyms and changing rooms which fall under private ownership. Public beaches typically have stalls. The private owners are reluctant to change because transgender people are a minority. I am reluctant to use government intervention to force this change.

Some people won't intend to draw intention, but it can happen despite their best efforts to avoid it.
Some trans folk, especially MTF, will still look masculine enuf to prompt less tolerant types to call the cops.
And cops have a real problem dealing with men (perceived as such) accused of sexual predation.
It's a recipe for governmental abuse of innocent citizens, thereby creating a solution which is far worse than the imagined problem.

 

[bobhikes]

You need to take a closer loot at the bill. It is about bathrooms.

It mentions bathrooms\changing rooms and the only place you are going to have a problem is changing rooms. In a bathroom unless you make a scene no one is going to check you. They included bathroom's because it makes it more universal. Not everybody uses a changing room but everyone uses a bathroom.

The only incident I know of that I don't have a good answer is for I believe a boy transgendered into a girl in High school and wanted to use the girls locker room. This is the only public place where such a problem I know of occurred. I can see both sides and I would just give him/her his own place to change and use the bathroom. I do not like this resolution because it isolates him/her but you do not want him/her to be harmed by either sex and you don't want to set his/her rights above others.

 

[bobhikes]

Some people won't intend to draw intention, but it can happen despite their best efforts to avoid it.
Some trans folk, especially MTF, will still look masculine enuf to prompt less tolerant types to call the cops.
And cops have a real problem dealing with men (perceived as such) accused of sexual predation.
It's a recipe for governmental abuse of innocent citizens, thereby creating a solution which is far worse than the imagined problem.

Sorry I don't by it. I said before I have had women come into the Mens restroom because of emergency and Woman regularly take sons of various ages into the womens restrooms. Show me the statistics. I need numbers that show me how bad this problem is. Not just one arrest.

 

[Jumi]

I have had more than once have a women come in a male restroom in emergency and nothing happened.

Isn't it the same thing as allowing men to go in women's restrooms in emergency, and nothing happens? Where's the problem here...

 

[Revoltingest]

Sorry I don't by it.

Ya know......you lose all credibility when you misspell "buy".
(Just bust'n yer chops here.)

I said before I have had women come into the Mens restroom because of emergency and Woman regularly take sons of various ages into the womens restrooms. Show me the statistics. I need numbers that show me how bad this problem is. Not just one arrest.

it's a new law, so I've no statistics.
But as a landlord, I do know the great variety of cops out there, & the range of behaviors they exhibit.
I've had many work for me in various capacities.
One is a dangerous & violent bigot.
A law like this creates a volatile situation.
There will be blood.

 

[fantome profane]

It mentions bathrooms\changing rooms and the only place you are going to have a problem is changing rooms. In a bathroom unless you make a scene no one is going to check you. They included bathroom's because it makes it more universal. Not everybody uses a changing room but everyone uses a bathroom.

The only incident I know of that I don't have a good answer is for I believe a boy transgendered into a girl in High school and wanted to use the girls locker room. This is the only public place where such a problem I know of occurred. I can see both sides and I would just give him/her his own place to change and use the bathroom. I do not like this resolution because it isolates him/her but you do not want him/her to be harmed by either sex and you don't want to set his/her rights above others.

Did this person in this story attack someone in the locker room? Did this person harass someone? Did this person do anything wrong or give any indication that she would?

I understand the difficulty in a situation like this, particularly when someone is currently transitioning. But nothing in the proposed law will actually help the situation, it will only make it much worse.

 

[Jumi]

I donøt think that is the issue. They donøt have some one there, checking everyone who uses the restroom.

I'm against laws that aren't and mostly can't be enforced. What is the purpose of them? To just bully or make some group feel bad?

 

[bobhikes]

Isn't it the same thing as allowing men to go in women's restrooms in emergency, and nothing happens? Where's the problem here...

I have no problem with that either. The problem I have is making a law based on supposed discrimination and than stating anyone that doesn't support the law is filled with bias and hatred.

 

[Jumi]

I have no problem with that either. The problem I have is making a law based on supposed discrimination and than stating anyone that doesn't support the law is filled with bias and hatred.

I agree. They might have the best intentions for causing undue suffering. If you've ever been hurt by someone who "just wants to help" it's not the best feeling you can get. From what I've learned about transgenders recently, it's normal for people with good intentions to try to "help" them... the motivations for this law don't seem to have even much of that good will behind it, but even good well-intentioned people can be fooled.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

 

[bobhikes]

Did this person in this story attack someone in the locker room? Did this person harass someone? Did this person do anything wrong or give any indication that she would?

I understand the difficulty in a situation like this, particularly when someone is currently transitioning. But nothing in the proposed law will actually help the situation, it will only make it much worse.

It was just an example of such a situation I understood.

I'll make my summary here and leave the thread alone.

You can't claim discrimination for comfort when you make other's uncomfortable with your claim. If there is a real need you need to produce empirical data and then the need can be addresses and resolved. Rather then forcing Men, Women or Transgender to make an exception, the rules need to be changed. We need unisex bathroom's. This is just a bathroom with one entrance and a lock simple. Nobody needs to watch anybody go to the bathroom. I have traveled to several states and most malls already have such called family rooms. Restaurants tend to have a lock on the bathroom. Stadiums have porto potties with locks. It should and can be a requirement that this is what bathrooms should be. As to lockers, private companies need to make their clients happy and protect them from harm. If they can do this with the current setup their is no issue. If they can't they can be legislated.

 

[Skwim]

So you think that this person should be forced to use the men's restroom?

Absolutely, and all these as well.

There's no such a thing as too many beautiful people in a man's restroom.


.

 

[Jumi]

So the people who are for this law don't want her to be in the women's bathroom, but want him to be there:

That's just awesome.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

So the people who are for this law don't want her to be in the women's bathroom, but want him to be there:

That's just awesome.

Pretty much. The idiots who come up with these things clearly aren't thinking things through much.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Still not sure what you're trying to say.

I think the attempted point is that it isn't proper or socially acceptable for a man to enter a woman's bathroom at whim. There would be a lot of trouble if a man ever did so. Givin a transgendered person's natural sex at birth dosent provide any excuse just because of surface changes or alterations made.

That's my read on it.

 

[The Mormonator]

If you have a ding dong, use the men's restroom. If you have a ding dong and like to sit down to pee pee, then go in the stall. This isn't rocket science.