Trap: Promise of Reward

[ExVasterist]

To start off, I'm not an actual believer, I'm agnostic or on the fence of Atheism vs Believer.

One thing I noticed about many believers is that many of them say "Do good & you shall be rewarded" and it made me question that statement/(popular)opinion, "Are their deeds genuine? Or are just doing Good because of the promise of the reward?" and the more I thought about it, the more I felt like most people that do believe only really do good because of that reward rather than genuinely feeling "This is the right thing to do".

One of my firm beliefs is to do good but not expect a reward unless its a job or career, like you're helping a random person with something and for your troubles, you expect nothing in return.
Now if you apply that belief to this Promise of Reward from God/Jesus for being good, you gotta wondering if you're doing it for the reward or just doing it cause you know its the right thing to do.

Personally, doing good for a reward is in my opinion not genuine, as I think God/Jesus wants us all to be genuinely good rather being good because "Its either Heaven or Hell". Don't you agree?

If you feel it in your gut that this is the right thing to do based solely on your perception of good vs evil, you'd do it or at least try. But in your opinion, which is better: Doing good just because or doing good because God/Jesus promised a reward for your good deeds?
How many people you know would you say does good just because they want to? And how many do it because Jesus/God promised a reward?

The Reward bit honestly just feels like a trap.
To give some context:
Reward-
Helper: Let me help you.
Person: Oh thank you.
Helper: Ok I did my part, can I get anything for helping you?
Person thinks 'Oh you were just doing for the reward?'

No Reward-
Helper: Let me help you.
Person: Oh thank you.
Helper: Have a nice day.

That is basically what I mean people doing good for a reward vs doing good just because they feel it is the right thing to do. Thoughts?

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

You got it nailed.

As it happens, I just finished an interesting article yesterday which relates to your op I think.

Here is the link

Evils Are Permitted for a Purpose – Swedenborg Foundation

It’s long, but full of great insight.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

One thing I noticed about many believers is that many of them say "Do good & you shall be rewarded" and it made me question that statement/(popular)opinion, "Are their deeds genuine? Or are just doing Good because of the promise of the reward?"

These are people that might have done good for goodness sake in the absence of any religious beliefs, but really can't do that if they believe that their thoughts and deeds are being monitored, rated, and tallied, and that they will be rewarded or punished accordingly.

Personally, doing good for a reward is in my opinion not genuine

What I say is that it ceases to be a moral act. You're not doing what you consider good, but what you have been told your judge considers good. You are merely being obedient or not. A young child with no moral compass and no understanding of right and wrong will obey for a reward or to avoid punishment.

To be a moral act, I believe that the urge must come from the conscience, and that it be done for no better reason than it feels good and right as judged by the moral agent.

I'm not an actual believer, I'm agnostic or on the fence of Atheism vs Believer.

Most atheists define atheist as a person who has no god belief. There's not much middle ground there. If your answer to the question of whether you believe that a god or gods exist is yes, then you're a theist. If it is no, then your an atheist.

And agnostic means not claiming to know whether gods exist or not. A theist who says that he believes but doesn't claim to know would be called an agnostic theist. An atheist that doesn't claim that gods don't exist - he doesn't know either way, but doesn't believe in gods because he needs a reason to believe,not a reason to not believe - is an agnostic atheist, or what some people call a weak atheist.

You're 33 years old. I recommend learning to navigate life without god beliefs if you can, especially the kind common in the West. Learn to walk this world knowing that we may be all there is for light years, and that things don't get better if we don't make them better.

Accept that you may be vulnerable and not watched over.

Accept the likelihood of your own mortality and finititude.

Accept the reality of your likely insignificance everywhere but earth, and that you might be unloved except by some of those around you - people, and maybe a few animals.

Because as far as we know, that's how it is.

It's not hard to do, but only if you start young. A sixty year old that has lived his entire life in the comfort of Christianity and its promises, for example, has relatively little chance of making the transition. His window of opportunity has probably passed. It would be like pulling the rug out from under himself, something he's not likely to either want to do or be able to do.

But you can do it.

And ask the believers what they recommend abut the religious life, and why they consider it better for you if they do.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

... in your opinion, which is better: Doing good just because or doing good because God/Jesus promised a reward for your good deeds?

It seems pretty early for soft ball ...

 

[ExVasterist]

Most atheists define atheist as a person who has no god belief. There's not much middle ground there. If your answer to the question of whether you believe that a god or gods exist is yes, then you're a theist. If it is no, then your an atheist.

And agnostic means not claiming to know whether gods exist or not. A theist who says that he believes but doesn't claim to know would be called an agnostic theist. An atheist that doesn't claim that gods don't exist - he doesn't know either way, but doesn't believe in gods because he needs a reason to believe,not a reason to not believe - is an agnostic atheist, or what some people call a weak atheist.

You're 33 years old. I recommend learning to navigate life without god beliefs if you can, especially the kind common in the West. Learn to walk this world knowing that we may be all there is for light years, and that things don't get better if we don't make them better.

Accept that you may be vulnerable and not watched over.

Accept the likelihood of your own mortality and finititude.

Accept the reality of your likely insignificance everywhere but earth, and that you might be unloved except by some of those around you - people, and maybe a few animals.

Because as far as we know, that's how it is.

It's not hard to do, but only if you start young. A sixty year old that has lived his entire life in the comfort of Christianity and its promises, for example, has relatively little chance of making the transition. His window of opportunity has probably passed. It would be like pulling the rug out from under himself, something he's not likely to either want to do or be able to do.

But you can do it.

And ask the believers what they recommend abut the religious life, and why they consider it better for you if they do.

Most Atheists I've seen or met have claimed "No factual evidence of God exists, therefore he doesn't exist" whereas Believers don't rely on any solid proof, they rely solely on their faith or their belief that a higher power exists.
From what I've seen of how people make claims & say they are this or that, most that I've seen or met have made the claim without evidence - My thoughts are, so what if there's no proof, just cause you haven't found it doesn't mean that something doesn't exist.

I THINK god or other deities could exist, but I dunno for sure. Based on how the Science community works with evidence, 90% go by physical evidence or some miraculous event that can't be explained away, trouble is with the physical part, how do you prove a supernatural being that exists beyond our scope of comprehension as being proven real or not real?
Fact is, neither side can. We can't force a deity to show themselves, compared to them, we are tiny insignificant specks of dust, its like an Ant expecting a human to listen to them.
We have only other people's experiences and our own to go by. Or at least til the "judgement day" comes (which no one is sure of).

I've already accepted the possibility that god may not exist, that when I die, there might not be an afterlife, but will that stop me from searching? Nope.
Do I let it rule my life? Of course not.
And many have given me their reasons why I should believe, but thing is, I can't. Faith is what they describe as Trust (their closest definition of it), but I can't trust something or someone I've never actually met or heard from. Many say "He communicates through feelings" and yet so does the Devil, this "Ultimate Evil" that was created by "Ultimate Good" (personally makes absolutely no sense - Either God has Evil in him as well OR The Devil is simply playing a role that God laid out for him to do, I'm quite certain its a role rather than some dumb "I can defeat a being that could easily destroy me with a thought, DERP!") and frankly, I don't consider a "feeling" as communication, cause even killers can find joy in killing people just as Christian can feel joy in converting people.

I also can't simply toss away what I was raised in. I tried going the route where I acted like anyone that believes in the supernatural are simply weak minded individuals, but then it felt like I was trying to convince myself like 2+2 = 3 when I've been raised for so long that 2+2 = 4.

There are many things in religion that I am strongly against, and personally though some of the inspiration COULD'VE come from a deity, it feels like a large portion of it was made up by man (especially when you find out that Paul says the opposite of what Jesus says - did find that out til today and that just enforces my belief that most of was written by man instead of being the word of god).

Anyways, my OP wasn't about my religious stance, it was about people that do good for nothing vs those that do good for the afterlife reward. I know I didn't have to explain myself as extensively as I did, but I felt it was necessary.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Most Atheists I've seen or met have claimed "No factual evidence of God exists, therefore he doesn't exist"

That's not my experience, but it wouldn't matter either way. Anybody that claims to know that a god or gods definitely do or do not exist is making a leap of faith. They are claiming knowledge that I know that they cannot possibly have.

I THINK god or other deities could exist, but I dunno for sure.

Agree. That makes us both agnostics whether we are believers (agnostic theists) or not (agnostic atheists).

trouble is with the physical part, how do you prove a supernatural being that exists beyond our scope of comprehension as being proven real or not real?

I have trouble with the idea that anything that exists is something other than natural, that is, a part of nature. If gods exist, they're natural like all other things that exist. Notice that by natural, I mean in contradistinction to the supernatural, not the artificial. Since human language is a human artifact that arose without any apparent violation of the laws of nature, it is natural in one one sense of the word, but not the other.

I've already accepted the possibility that god may not exist, that when I die, there might not be an afterlife

That is a huge step forward. You are at an advantage for recognizing that. It's liberating.

I can't trust something or someone I've never actually met or heard from.

Agree again.

Nor love them, nor have any kind of "personal relationship" with them.

 

[ExVasterist]

Well as I said, this is just me. My beliefs are rather complicated. Sometimes I wish I wasn't overly analytical about everything, I even question things that we (humanity) believe is fact.

But again, just because I've accepted the possibility, doesn't mean I can simply toss away what I was raised in for half my life. Personally, if God does in fact exist (Saying If), I sincerely hope that most of the crap I read in the MANY DIFFERENT VERSIONS of the bible are just the opinions of man from the time it was written.

And ultimately, I'm not concerned with who's right & who's wrong (religion wise & debate wise), I'm more concerned with those that are actually trying to make this world better vs those that wanna make it worse.

And I have a theory that neither Atheists nor Believers want to consider (dunno why). I honestly don't think its beyond a deity (who is suppose to have limitless power & is suppose to be the creator of absolutely everything) to include evolution in his creation. What if he/she/it (thats another thing up for debate whether God is male, female, both, or neither) just simply made the ground work for evolution? And say whatever gained intelligence first and became the dominant species was the result, he could still say "I created you".

And yeah straying off topic again, but I swear you're pulling me into this lol

 

[arthra]

Personally, doing good for a reward is in my opinion not genuine, as I think God/Jesus wants us all to be genuinely good rather being good because "Its either Heaven or Hell". Don't you agree?

In the Baha'i view there's a strong emphasis on service to humanity:

The concept of service is central to the pattern of Bahá’í life, both individual and collective.

“God has given us eyes, that we may look about us at the world, and lay hold of whatsoever will further civilization and the arts of living. He has given us ears, that we may hear and profit by the wisdom of scholars and philosophers and arise to promote and practice it. Senses and faculties have been bestowed upon us, to be devoted to the service of the general good; so that we, distinguished above all other forms of life for perceptiveness and reason, should labor at all times and along all lines, whether the occasion be great or small, ordinary or extraordinary, until all mankind are safely gathered into the impregnable stronghold of knowledge”.

The Secret of Divine Civilization | Bahá’í Reference Library

For Baha'is "heaven" is a condition of the soul as it draws nearer to the Divine while "hell" is being remote from God (also a condition of the soul).

 

[Akivah]

To start off, I'm not an actual believer, I'm agnostic or on the fence of Atheism vs Believer.

One thing I noticed about many believers is that many of them say "Do good & you shall be rewarded" and it made me question that statement/(popular)opinion, "Are their deeds genuine? Or are just doing Good because of the promise of the reward?" and the more I thought about it, the more I felt like most people that do believe only really do good because of that reward rather than genuinely feeling "This is the right thing to do".

Your post sounds very Jewish. Since Judaism doesn't have a place of eternal torment (i.e. Hell), we don't have a concept of doing good to avoid a bad place. We do good deeds, just for the opportunity to do more good deeds. I agree with you that doing good deeds just for the expectation of a reward is a bit shallow. We should do good deeds simply because we choose to do them.

 

[ExVasterist]

Your post sounds very Jewish. Since Judaism doesn't have a place of eternal torment (i.e. Hell), we don't have a concept of doing good to avoid a bad place. We do good deeds, just for the opportunity to do more good deeds. I agree with you that doing good deeds just for the expectation of a reward is a bit shallow. We should do good deeds simply because we choose to do them.

Learn something new every day. Didn't know that Jews didn't believe in Hell. I thought that their belief is based on the OT? In the OT, hell is mentioned. And I've heard various Jewish figures mention that Jesus was not the Messiah that was prophesied in the OT.
Just sounds a little confusing.
And I've never really read into Jewish belief & doctrines.

 

[Deeje]

Learn something new every day. Didn't know that Jews didn't believe in Hell. I thought that their belief is based on the OT? In the OT, hell is mentioned. And I've heard various Jewish figures mention that Jesus was not the Messiah that was prophesied in the OT.
Just sounds a little confusing.
And I've never really read into Jewish belief & doctrines.

You might be surprised about a lot of things that the OT teaches as opposed to how some "Christians" interpret it.

If you remember that Jesus was Jewish, it opens up a lot of topics for discussion. Jews are not the only ones who reject the teaching of a hell of eternal punishment.

Your OP talks about rewards for doing the right thing......have you considered scriptures like Matthew 6:1-4?

Jesus said......
“Take care not to practice your righteousness in front of men to be noticed by them; otherwise you will have no reward with your Father who is in the heavens. 2 So when you make gifts of mercy, do not blow a trumpet ahead of you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be glorified by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 3 But you, when making gifts of mercy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your gifts of mercy may be in secret. Then your Father who looks on in secret will repay you."

This puts a bit of a different spin on the doing of good. It's not about others seeing you doing these things......it's about God seeing you doing them "in secret".

What is the reward that God gives, and why does he give it?

I would put it in a similar category to taking on the physical challenge of restoring a neglected house back to its former beauty. It's a lot of work and expense, but when it's done, the reward is in the satisfaction of completing the job and enjoying the results of your efforts.

We as humans are incentive oriented by nature. Without incentive, there is little enjoyment in doing anything. I guess it has to do with being content to have satisfaction itself as the reward for doing good deeds for others. Random acts of kindness are sadly not very common these days, but if we all did them, expecting no reward except the good feeling that comes from seeing a smile on someone's face, what an impact that could have!

 

[ExVasterist]

You might be surprised about a lot of things that the OT teaches as opposed to how some "Christians" interpret it.

If you remember that Jesus was Jewish, it opens up a lot of topics for discussion. Jews are not the only ones who reject the teaching of a hell of eternal punishment.

Your OP talks about rewards for doing the right thing......have you considered scriptures like Matthew 6:1-4?

Jesus said......
“Take care not to practice your righteousness in front of men to be noticed by them; otherwise you will have no reward with your Father who is in the heavens. 2 So when you make gifts of mercy, do not blow a trumpet ahead of you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be glorified by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 3 But you, when making gifts of mercy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your gifts of mercy may be in secret. Then your Father who looks on in secret will repay you."

This puts a bit of a different spin on the doing of good. It's not about others seeing you doing these things......it's about God seeing you doing them "in secret".

What is the reward that God gives, and why does he give it?

I would put it in a similar category to taking on the physical challenge of restoring a neglected house back to its former beauty. It's a lot of work and expense, but when it's done, the reward is in the satisfaction of completing the job and enjoying the results of your efforts.

We as humans are incentive oriented by nature. Without incentive, there is little enjoyment in doing anything. I guess it has to do with being content to have satisfaction itself as the reward for doing good deeds for others. Random acts of kindness are sadly not very common these days, but if we all did them, expecting no reward except the good feeling that comes from seeing a smile on someone's face, what an impact that could have!

True, but I'm not looking to be glorified. In doing kind that others see, you become the example, you show that they too can do good for nothing and still feel awesome for doing it.

As the saying goes "Be the change you want to see in the world", I want the pointless fights to end in Politics (Dem vs Rep), I want the wars to end (no matter the reason, even religious based), I want this pointless hate of skin color to end, I want people to actually help each other instead of trying to take advantage of them, I want things to be made that will actually help everyone instead the few, and I want the lies to end (Example: We fight for freedom, not realizing we are taking it from others).

I remember that one person that helped a homeless guy using a GoFundMe. He gave him a lottery scratch it, it was one of those fake ones where you always win, takes him to the store to cash in, already he is thinking "this has to be a prank", but the clerk takes it and hands him $500, not fake but real. The guy was in shock and hugged him.
Many more people ended up donating money.
So the guy did another grand thing for the homeless guy, came to him a while later (maybe a week), and gave him keys, then showed him where those keys go to; His new apartment.
Originally they were gonna hand him $50,000, but so much more was donated that they were able to pay a year in advance for rent, gas, electric, bought him a Tv, Fully stocked fridge, a bed and a couch.
Then handed what was they intended, the $50,000.
The joy he expressed was honestly tear jerking for anyone that watched the video, he was so happy that he was crying, and he was trying to think its a prank, that none of it is real, but nope it was very real - because of this one guy who started a GoFundMe just help out the homeless, this guy is no longer homeless.

On top of that, there was another homeless person, I think in Boston, he always came to this one spot, the restaurants & coffee shops actually liked him, but he didn't get much from anyone. Well some people who wanted to really make his day went to a large group of protesters that were marching at the time. They convinced all of them to help out this one person.
So, one by one, a person comes to drop a dollar or more in his bucket, then it becomes ten people, more than he's ever had. Then he looks up to see a huge line of people who coming to just drop money in his bucket. I have no idea how many people were there, but its was in the 30-60 thousand range. He ended up crying and hugging every single person that donated to him. So many had donated that they had to get him a bigger bucket and even that was filled to the brim.

Those are the acts of kindness I want to see in the world.
For people to really show that they care & have the heart to act for others just to see them smile.

 

[Deeje]

As the saying goes "Be the change you want to see in the world", I want the pointless fights to end in Politics (Dem vs Rep), I want the wars to end (no matter the reason, even religious based), I want this pointless hate of skin color to end, I want people to actually help each other instead of trying to take advantage of them, I want things to be made that will actually help everyone instead the few, and I want the lies to end

What do you think is preventing the people of the world from thinking the same as you do? It seems as if the majority of people would love to live in a world where kindness was a uniting bond among humanity....so what is missing from the human psyche that prevents us having a world like that?

In the examples you gave, what was the common denominator in each of them? Wasn't it someone who stopped talking about how bad things were and actually did something? That is indeed a motivating force if it could be harnessed. Wouldn't it be great if the many political leaders in the world, with the resources they have at their disposal, spent their money on helping people instead of pouring endless millions into more and more heinous ways to kill them? If there was no war...there could be no poverty...right?

What would it take to bring about a world like that?

Example: We fight for freedom, not realizing we are taking it from others.

That is so true. But I believe that all the world's troubles stem from the lust for power and the abuse of free will. We all have freedom of choice (up to a point) in the West, but that freedom, when it is used to rob others of their freedom, it is a curse, not a blessing.

Those are the acts of kindness I want to see in the world.
For people to really show that they care & have the heart to act for others just to see them smile.

Its a nice message you want to spread, but unless you can harness that goodness in others and help them to implement the change we would all like to see, what do you do in the face of the overwhelming magnitude of the problem? So many good humanitarians burn out because no matter how much they do...it is never enough to even scratch the surface. Its like trying to put out a raging forest fire with a water pistol.

I believe that it will take a power greater than man's to bring about a change like that.

 

[ExVasterist]

What do you think is preventing the people of the world from thinking the same as you do? It seems as if the majority of people would love to live in a world where kindness was a uniting bond among humanity....so what is missing from the human psyche that prevents us having a world like that?

In the examples you gave, what was the common denominator in each of them? Wasn't it someone who stopped talking about how bad things were and actually did something? That is indeed a motivating force if it could be harnessed. Wouldn't it be great if the many political leaders in the world, with the resources they have at their disposal, spent their money on helping people instead of pouring endless millions into more and more heinous ways to kill them? If there was no war...there could be no poverty...right?

What would it take to bring about a world like that?

That is so true. But I believe that all the world's troubles stem from the lust for power and the abuse of free will. We all have freedom of choice (up to a point) in the West, but that freedom, when it is used to rob others of their freedom, it is a curse, not a blessing.

Its a nice message you want to spread, but unless you can harness that goodness in others and help them to implement the change we would all like to see, what do you do in the face of the overwhelming magnitude of the problem? So many good humanitarians burn out because no matter how much they do...it is never enough to even scratch the surface. Its like trying to put out a raging forest fire with a water pistol.

I believe that it will take a power greater than man's to bring about a change like that.

That won't happen til The Day of Judgement or Day of Salvation, and the troubles will only get worse according to the bible long before it ever gets better.
True, not many out there are willing enough to do the good they wish to see in the world, many of us don't have the voice to inspire others, and a lot of us have simply become use to the evil in the world and just let evil do it's thing.

But those two videos were seen by millions, its one thing to do any act of kindness that a dozen people can see, its quite another when you can show it it to millions.
Markiplier thankfully is one of those types of people that can get his fans (14 million subs I think) to join him in charity events that he holds every month on Twitch, every time they break a milestone of donations, he does what he promised he'd do just for their amusement regardless if he wants to do it or not - like turning up the intensity of those muscle stimulant device things while playing Jenga with his buddies (Course they could not expect that every milestone up to the maximum setting would be hit in under an hour).

Doing an act of kindness and uploading it to the internet can have huge & far reaching effects as oppose to just doing it in your local area as much as you can.

The only crap thing that I've dealt with is something that I swear feels like a curse.
Ever saw someone in need asking people for "I need money for food", you got into the store and buy a sub sandwich & a big bottle of juice, then come out only to find them gone?
Or you see a homeless person getting ready to turn in their recyclables and you want to give them money, but they refuse it?
Happened to me too many times to where I I'm thinking someone cursed me or I just have that kind of bad luck when I really want to help people, even when running the risk of putting myself in their situation.

 

[Deeje]

That won't happen til The Day of Judgement or Day of Salvation, and the troubles will only get worse according to the bible long before it ever gets better.

Exactly. I believe it is very close. That power greater than man's is about to flex his muscles, but not before we basically get to the point of no return. (Daniel 2:44)

Life in this world is an object lesson that has been endured by the human race for thousands of years...and its about to fulfill its purpose. Proving that the issues raised in Eden were false. Man is not better off making his own decisions independent of his Maker and that there is no better ruler for mankind than their Creator.
His rules are for our benefit and he has the right to set them.

True, not many out there are willing enough to do the good they wish to see in the world, many of us don't have the voice to inspire others, and a lot of us have simply become use to the evil in the world and just let evil do it's thing.

Jeremiah wrote...."It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.” (Jeremiah 10:23)
This is why humans are basically hopeless at ruling themselves....we were never designed to exercise power over others......it always corrupts us. We are designed to be ruled by God.

Doing an act of kindness and uploading it to the internet can have huge & far reaching effects as oppose to just doing it in your local area as much as you can.

Yes, it might make people feel all 'warm and fuzzy' for a few minutes until they watch the next YouTube video and it completely takes their attention away from what they just watched....this world is full of distractions and that's just the way the devil wants it.

The only crap thing that I've dealt with is something that I swear feels like a curse.
Ever saw someone in need asking people for "I need money for food", you got into the store and buy a sub sandwich & a big bottle of juice, then come out only to find them gone?
Or you see a homeless person getting ready to turn in their recyclables and you want to give them money, but they refuse it?
Happened to me too many times to where I I'm thinking someone cursed me or I just have that kind of bad luck when I really want to help people, even when running the risk of putting myself in their situation.

You are to be commended for even thinking of helping people less fortunate than yourself, but in a lot of cases, homeless people prefer to be the way they are. Many are not stressed by their plight because they have no responsibilities, they learn to sleep anywhere, and garbage tastes OK after a while. Its better to give people a hand up, rather than a hand out.

Someone coined the term "Rice Christians" when missionaries in Asia rewarded people with rice for coming to church. They came just for the rice. Jesus had to deal with the same kind of thing when he fed the multitudes. The next day the crowds sought him out again and he asked if they had come for more food or if they wanted to hear him teach?

Charity in Israel was not by giving hand-outs..... farmers had to leave unharvested grain at the perimeters of their fields so that the poor could work to harvest their own food. It gave them the dignity of work.

Self-sufficiency is what is recommended in the Bible....not hand to mouth charity. "Don't hand the man a fish...teach him to fish". Its the better way.

 

[ExVasterist]

Exactly. I believe it is very close. That power greater than man's is about to flex his muscles, but not before we basically get to the point of no return. (Daniel 2:44)

Well hopefully our robots don't get there first.
Though I'm not fond of the Apocalypse, I'd rather it not be by our own creation.
Our most advanced AI robots are all displaying the Skynet desire to end all humanity & replace us with them - nobody wants Terminator to become a reality.

 

[Akivah]

Learn something new every day. Didn't know that Jews didn't believe in Hell. I thought that their belief is based on the OT? In the OT, hell is mentioned. And I've heard various Jewish figures mention that Jesus was not the Messiah that was prophesied in the OT.
Just sounds a little confusing.
And I've never really read into Jewish belief & doctrines.

I completely agree that you haven't read about Jewish belief & doctrines, just from reading your post.

The OT, short for Old Testament, is a christian book. Judaism's bible is not old, but it is Eternal.

Hell (defined as a place of eternal torment) is not mentioned in the Hebrew bible. The afterlife is barely mentioned.

While there are varying opinions about jesus by Judaism authorities, they all agree that that person failed to qualify as our messiah.

Nothing confusing about it, unless you assign christian doctrine to Judaism. Mixing two different religions together causes confusion.

 

[Rival]

Your post sounds very Jewish. Since Judaism doesn't have a place of eternal torment (i.e. Hell), we don't have a concept of doing good to avoid a bad place. We do good deeds, just for the opportunity to do more good deeds. I agree with you that doing good deeds just for the expectation of a reward is a bit shallow. We should do good deeds simply because we choose to do them.

Reminded me of this article I read today:

What’s the Point?

 

[ExVasterist]

I completely agree that you haven't read about Jewish belief & doctrines, just from reading your post.

Would be strange if you said "I disagree" lol

The OT, short for Old Testament, is a christian book. Judaism's bible is not old, but it is Eternal.

Eternal means forever, like before mankind existed, before everything existed, as long as God has existed so has the book. I doubt you meant "Eternal" cause no one has ever made such a ridiculous claim.

 

[Akivah]

Eternal means forever, like before mankind existed, before everything existed, as long as God has existed so has the book. I doubt you meant "Eternal" cause no one has ever made such a ridiculous claim.

We both agree that you know nothing of Judaism, therefore it is irrational for you to make statements about things that you know nothing about.

According to sources within Judaism, the Torah is indeed Eternal. It existed before G-d created the universe.