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Trinitarians, please help me.

Bro Rando

Member
Who said? Why would the Hebrew scriptures contain a name that was not to be uttered?
Why would Moses ask for God's name and be told to tell it to the Israelites as the name they should mention forever in all their generations, if it was forbidden to be spoken? That is utter nonsense.

To proud Pharaoh God said through Moses....."But for this very reason I have kept you in existence: to show you my power and to have my name declared in all the earth."

Jesus said of his disciples...."I have made your name known to them and will make it known, so that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them.”

In the Lord's prayer what is one of the first things that Jesus teaches us to pray for?
"Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name".

The reason why the divine name slipped out of use among the Jews (long before the first century,) was more likely because they were want to making frivolous oaths in Jehovah's name, thereby breaking the 4th Commandment of taking the Lord's name in vain. Instead of working on the problem of not bringing God's name into disrepute by their word and actions, they chose instead to stop saying it. You can't be convicted of taking God's name in vain, if you never use it. Right?



"Jehovah" is the English translation of the name of God. The pronunciation of the four consonants of the Divine Name, YHWH, was lost because of the Jewish custom of not saying it even though it was written in the Hebrew text. They would substitute the title "LORD" (Adonai) every time the scriptures were read.There was no command from God to refrain from using his name as the Bible writers did freely and reverently.

It has been suggested by some Jewish scholars that "Yahweh" is probably close to the way it was pronounced (a transliteration) but they cannot be sure. Despite that fact, we know what YHWH means in English because it was revealed to Moses in Exodus 3:13-15, and it retains its meaning in English ( I Will Be What I Will Be) as does the name of Jesus. You don't call Jesus by his Hebrew name yet you believe that he is God. Why balk at God's name in English if you use the name Jesus? Do you wish to change all the "J" names in the Bible? Most of them incorporate Jehovah's name. So to my way of thinking that is a weak argument.



If all else fails character assassination works...right? No one is better at character assassination than an "ex" with an axe to grind.

"A Greek master text of the Christian Greek Scriptures that attained wide acceptance is that produced in 1881 by Cambridge University scholars B. F. Westcott and F. J. A. Hort. It was the product of 28 years of independent labor, though they compared notes regularly. Like Griesbach, they divided manuscripts into families and leaned heavily on what they termed the “neutral text,” which included the renowned Sinaitic Manuscript and the Vatican Manuscript No. 1209, both of the fourth century C.E. While Westcott and Hort viewed matters as quite conclusive when these manuscripts agreed and especially when they were supported by other ancient uncial manuscripts, they were not bound to that position. They took every conceivable factor into consideration in endeavoring to solve problems presented by conflicting texts; and when two readings were of equal weight, that, too, was indicated in their master text. The Westcott and Hort text was the one used principally in translating the Christian Greek Scriptures into English in the New World Translation."

Manuscripts of the Bible — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY




Is that what they did? Or did they merely put God's name back into the scriptures that the Bible writers used when the OT was quoted in the NT?

Please provide these errors and lets see how they stack up.

This should prove helpful....

A5 The Divine Name in the Christian Greek Scriptures — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY



JW's are not Arians, even though we are not trinitarians.

"In one of the few writings of Arius that has survived, he claims that God is beyond comprehension, even for the Son. In line with this, historian H. M. Gwatkin states in his book The Arian Controversy: “The God of Arius is an unknown God, whose being is hidden in eternal mystery. No creature can reveal him, and he cannot reveal himself.” Jehovah’s Witnesses worship neither the “incomprehensible” God of the Trinitarians nor the “unknown God” of Arius. They say, with the apostle Paul: “There is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are.”—1 Corinthians 8:6."

“We Worship What We Know” — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

So yes, please share them.....I am sure that if we can explore these pro-trinitarian verses we will see something interesting.



The purpose of a translation is to make the text easy to read and understand to the generation to whom it is provided. Personally, I began my Bible study with JW's using my old KJV. I still saw the truth very clearly but the archaic English was a real hindrance. There was no NWT back then. I still compare translations even today. I have not found the NWT to ever be in error once I researched the meanings of original language words and their use in other parts of the Bible. I am a Bible student and have been for 46 years.

Word for word translations do not really exist because phraseology is very different in many languages and the meanings of words themselves change over time. We will put the NWT to the test and see if it is accurate or not.

Fire away.....provide your examples, but be prepared to receive some back.



Yes, I agree, but who is guilty of this.....lets explore.

(John 17:22) is part of a prayer Jesus was praying to his God and Father. The analogy I would use is when a couple get married they become one flesh figuratively, it is not literal. The two are not literally one flesh are they?

"I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be One just as we are One."

Read the Chapter...
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Jesus Christ worshipped his God and Father. When Satan tempted Jesus to worship him what was Jesus response? It Is Jehovah Your God You Must Worship

The Apostles would greet one another with the phrase, "Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ," (1 Peter 1:3) Notice this statement after Jesus' Resurrection. Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’” (John 20:17)


How Can You Know God Personally?
I know! You’re preaching to the choir, my brother.

Hope you & yours are doing well, through this COVID-19 threat.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
I'm far from expert on the subject but what I have always understood is that God is seen as having three aspects: the creator and ruler of the world, the messenger of God's wisdom to Man (and possibly to other morally aware members of creation) and the spiritual inspiration of Man (ditto).
I don't think most trinitarian Christians are disposed to agonise long over why exactly their theology treats these three aspects as separate "persons". But if one believes Christ was God and man, then He was at one stage localised in time and space as a human being, which would be a phenomenon distinct from God as a universally transcendent entity. So treating Christ as a separate person from the Father would seem reasonable, at least.

The essence of the three persons of the Trinity is the same.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
There is absolutely no logic to breaking the one God of the universe into 3 persons.

That is today's understanding of 'person' as opposed to the meaning of person in the trinitarian doctrine.

I don’t understand any of that. I’m a small child following my Lord.

The Trinity is a unity within itself, the Lover, the Beloved, and the Love between them.
 

capumetu

Active Member
Christian trinitarians:
I would like to hear a thoughtful explanation of the Trinity without picking one or two bible verses and stretching them to fit into your mind’s view of this concept.

Also, please address my problem when answering.

My problem with the Trinity:
You separate god into 3 persons. Your doctrine specifically says the three persons are distinct.
To me, disinct means you draw a boundary around each, and describe the character and duties of each individually. Yes, a boundary, meaning there is a distinction between each.
Then you say the holy spirit comes to believers. Or he is sent by the father. How is it possible for this concept to make ANY tiny bit of logical sense? I ask this because you also claim that your god is omnipotent and omnipresent. Omnipresence means he is everywhere. That means the distinct person you call the father is everywhere. Everywhere means everywhere. There are no gaps. That would mean that the father is in me. That would mean that he does not have to send another person in his place. He is already here.
There is absolutely no logic to breaking the one God of the universe into 3 persons.

So, the rules are: no cherrypicked bible verses. No bible verses period. Just answer my problem in your own words. Like you were speaking to a small child. Consider me a small child.
Matthew 19:14. Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.
Think of the words from our Lord in Matthew 19:14. Let them sink in.

Do not hinder the little children with long complicated words like hypostasis, consubstantial, homoousius.
I don’t understand any of that. I’m a small child following my Lord.

Jehovah is God, Jesus is God's son. The two are not the same or simply put we have no hope as Jesus would be a liar. He clearly stated to the mother of James and John that to sit on his right or left was not his to give, and that he didn't know the day or hour of the end, but Jehovah did. Mark 10:40; 13:32
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Jehovah is God, Jesus is God's son. The two are not the same or simply put we have no hope as Jesus would be a liar. He clearly stated to the mother of James and John that to sit on his right or left was not his to give, and that he didn't know the day or hour of the end, but Jehovah did. Mark 10:40; 13:32
But, as you are not a Trinitarian, why are replying without making that clear?
 

capumetu

Active Member
But, as you are not a Trinitarian, why are replying without making that clear?


To help those who are seeking God. If one wants to worship God in spirit and truth, then it must be truth. Jesus said at Matthew 4:10 Go away satan, it is written, it is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to Him alone you render sacred service.

For a person who is seeking to get on the road to everlasting life, they must know the path sir.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
To help those who are seeking God. If one wants to worship God in spirit and truth, then it must be truth. Jesus said at Matthew 4:10 Go away satan, it is written, it is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to Him alone you render sacred service.

For a person who is seeking to get on the road to everlasting life, they must know the path sir.
Yadda, yadda, yes, but you should identify to the questioner that your (highly questionable) opinions on this subject are not those he is seeking.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Jehovah is God, Jesus is God's son. The two are not the same or simply put we have no hope as Jesus would be a liar. He clearly stated to the mother of James and John that to sit on his right or left was not his to give, and that he didn't know the day or hour of the end, but Jehovah did. Mark 10:40; 13:32

What do you think is the specific reason Jesus incarnated and not also Jehovah? Someone told me that Jesus was also the Father incarnated. Regarding what Jesus told to the mother of James, the books of Acts mentions Jesus as the right hand of God.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
I can almost understand that concept.

However, I think I cannot quite get there because I don’t really know what ‘spirit’ means. It’s not a particularly easy thing to define, just like ‘faith’. imo

I believe no one knows what either the Spirit of God is or our spirits either but we do know the characteristics of them. THe primary one is intelligence.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
3 parts that makes 1 whole..is trinity!

1) is your mind(every where like you say)

2) is your Heart(body)

When you find the two above and dedicate to God..(through your heart FIRST than towards your mind) you will than need your third.

3) is your understanding..(To Do) of what Your heart and mind tells you to do.

And if all three you’ve completed..will born you.. Amen(A MAN) so to for woman are included to this being born!

I believe the Trinity is not a whole with parts.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
I believe no one knows what either the Spirit of God is or our spirits either but we do know the characteristics of them. THe primary one is intelligence.

I believe that people have both a soul and a spirit and at the fall of Adam and Eve we lost our spirits to a certain degree.
 

capumetu

Active Member
Yadda, yadda, yes, but you should identify to the questioner that your (highly questionable) opinions on this subject are not those he is seeking.

I am sure you are correct on that sir, however what about all the many viewers? Sure the greater percentage of the post goes to the recipient, however a certain percentage is there for those who might be affected by the information.
 
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