True and False Prophets - Just and Honest Determination

[TransmutingSoul]

Like with Lazarus... Everything about the story is as if it really happened. Lazarus was sick and had died. He was already wrapped up and placed in a tomb. Then Jesus comes and calls him out of the tomb.

They can have both a literal and may symbolic meanings, same with numbers.

One needs to open their mind to the possibilities. Each letter has the power to create

"....Every single letter proceeding from Our mouth is endowed with such regenerative power as to enable it to bring into existence a new creation—a creation the magnitude of which is inscrutable to all save God. He verily hath knowledge of all things...." Baha'u'llah

"...It is in Our power, should We wish it, to enable a speck of floating dust to generate, in less than the twinkling of an eye, suns of infinite, of unimaginable splendour, to cause a dewdrop to develop into vast and numberless oceans, to infuse into every letter such a force as to empower it to unfold all the knowledge of past and future ages...."

Then there is words, then there is sentences, and then there are the stories, right up to the full Revelation.

So every letter of one small story about Lazarus, is beyond explanation, the stories are structured to allow meditation on the power of the Word, to find all that is hidden in those stories.

Stories of people still being alive after being thought dead are plentiful, the Bab and Baha'u'llah also have such stories of healing associated with them. The key is, Jesus, the Bab, Baha'u'llah and all the Messengers commune with the souls of those that are alive and dead, they already know their fate. So many stories of this given by people that spoke to the Messengers only is spirit and were instructed to do a certain thing, that when they did, it unfolded in real life, in real time.

There is much more than we can see going on around us CG.

Regards Tony

 

[Sumadji]

The philosophy and religion of the lowest paid hospital floor cleaner, with a bucket and a mop, is worth a thousand times more value than all the scriptural wrangling in this thread and all other forums combined, imo

 

[Trailblazer]

So still... where are the prophecies that have the bad times or the "great tribulation" happen after the Promised One has come and gone? Because AI couldn't even find it.

There isn't much information about when the great tribulation happens in the Bahá'í faith,​

Why do you think the prophecies of older religions are more accurate than a prophecy made by Baha'u'llah?
You have already demonstrated how none of the other religions agree about what will happen and when.

Here is your prophecy.

“The world is in travail, and its agitation waxeth day by day. Its face is turned towards waywardness and unbelief. Such shall be its plight, that to disclose it now would not be meet and seemly. Its perversity will long continue. And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake. Then, and only then, will the Divine Standard be unfurled, and the Nightingale of Paradise warble its melody.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 118-119

There isn't much information about when the great tribulation happens in the Bahá'í faith, and Baha'u'llah explained why --
to disclose it now would not be meet and seemly. But what was He referring to? Since this was written before WWI and WII, he might have been referring to those wars.

Oh, and where does it have any of these people fail to fix the problem? But instead get rejected, exiled, thrown in jail and die? Here again poor AI couldn't find anything.

PoorA1 is just a machine that spews out Christian beliefs.

Christians have no idea how all the problems in the world are going to be fixed. They just believe Jesus will come and fix them -- but how?
Is Jesus just going to wave a magic wand and then suddenly everything in the world will be transformed? Get real. Christians have no answers.
Christians have nothing, not even Jesus! All they have is a belief and a hope. Only Baha'is have the answers and the plan to fix things.

The Bible says that He would get rejected, exiled, thrown in jail. For example:

Isaiah 53:8 KJV. He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

According to most Christian beliefs, when Jesus returns (also known as the Second Coming), he will not be rejected again; instead, he will be universally acknowledged as Lord and Savior, with "every knee bowing" and "every tongue confessing" his divinity, as described in the Bible.

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The Bible verse that says "every knee bowing and every tongue confessing" is Philippians 2:10-11 which states, "that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.".

Key points about this verse:

Meaning: It signifies that one day, everyone, regardless of their status, will acknowledge Jesus as Lord and submit to his authority.

Source: This phrase originates from Isaiah 45:23. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

These verses say nothing about a Second Coming.

Philippians 2
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

A1 messed up again. Isaiah 45:23 is not about Jesus, it is about God. It is to God that every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Isaiah 45:21-23
21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

No, as I have told you before, I don't understand any of this.
How do you expect most people to understand this?

I don't know why you can't understand any of it. It is a very simple concept and plainly said.

If you are referring to actual palaces and tents and houses, I do not believe those exist in heaven or hell.
I do not even believe there are such places as heaven and hell.

I am referring to the three words: tents, houses, and palaces. We could switch and talk about cattle, goats, and sheep being as the same three things.

Brass - Silver - Gold
Tent - House - Palace
Cattle - Goat - Sheep

That is why Muhammad associates Hell with Cattle.

"And We shall drive the sinners to Hell, like thirsty cattle driven down to water". Quran 19:86

"Many are the Jinns and men we have made for Hell: They have hearts wherewith they understand not, eyes wherewith they see not, and ears wherewith they hear not. They are like cattle,- nay more misguided: for they are heedless (of warning)". Quran 7:179

God sent Baha'u'llah to speak plainly, just as Jesus had promised He would do when He returns. If a person like me who has never read any scripture can understand a book like Gleanings that means it is understandable to anyone.

People interpret everything they hear into a way they themselves can understand. Thats how misunderstandings happen.

Consider the Bible speaks of judgement between cattle, goats, and sheep.
"And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I judge between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats".

And you speak of sheep and goats. You are saying sheep accept Baha'u'llah and goats reject Baha'u'llah.

The sheep are being separated from the goats right now. The sheep are the people who have recognized Baha'u'llah and are meeting with God, through His Manifestation, and the goats are those who have rejected Baha'u'llah because they prefer their own way to God’s way, as revealed by the Manifestation.

So what do you think the cattle are? You didn't mention the cattle.

 

[danieldemol]

To say that those prophecies cannot belong to Jesus since Jesus has not returned is not a post hoc rationalization, since no action (of fulfilling the prophecies) has already been taken on the part of Jesus.

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Post hoc rationalization is the act of providing reasons for an action after the fact, or making excuses to explain an action that has already been taken. It's a type of logical fallacy that's also known as the post hoc fallacy:


To say that those prophecies belong to Jesus because Jesus will return and fulfill the prophecies is a prime example of a proactive justification or prior analysis, since it is carefully considering reasons and evidence before an event happens.

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The opposite of "post hoc rationalization" would be proactive justification or prior analysis; essentially, carefully considering reasons and evidence before an event happens, rather than creating explanations after the fact to fit a desired outcome.

Your AI analysis disagrees with you, but apparently you don't understand it in my view.

So it looks like this;
The Bible says Jesus will return in time period A.

Jesus does not return in time period A. This action of nonfulfillment is now after time period A or after the fact.

Pro-active justification;
Analysts where agreed before this act of nonfulfillment that it was the same Jesus who would return.

The explanation created after the fact to fit a desired outcome;
Since Jesus must return to fulfill prophecy - the desired outcome being that prophecy be fulfilled - it must have all been symbolic and any facts that don't fit either symbolically or literally are discarded in my view.