Trump impeachment,would witnesses have made a difference?

[England my lionheart]

Watching the impeachment from an outside perspective I can't get my head around voting on whether to allow witnesses,surely if someone is either guilty or innocent they are essential in proving the accused either way,please explain.

 

[Revoltingest]

Watching the impeachment from an outside perspective I can't get my head around voting on whether to allow witnesses,surely if someone is either guilty or innocent they are essential in proving the accused either way,please explain.

It's not about guilt or innocence in an impeachment, unlike a criminal trial.
It's about whether or not a super majority want to give the boot to the Prez,
thereby installing the VP in his place. Because it's political, evidence of a
crime isn't typically relevant. Note that Clinton's guilt was quite clear &
simple, but he was kept around. Trump has that same advantage.

 

[esmith]

To answer your post. No, there is no way there would be a 2/3 majority vote to convict. Therefore, witnesses would not make a difference.

 

[England my lionheart]

It's not about guilt or innocence in an impeachment, unlike a criminal trial.
It's about whether or not a super majority want to give the boot to the Prez,
thereby installing the VP in his place. Because it's political, evidence of a
crime isn't typically relevant. Note that Clinton's guilt was quite clear &
simple, but he was kept around. Trump has that same advantage.

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[sun rise]

The reason was to get public opinion much more on the side of conviction which could translate into much more likelihood of electing a Democrat and flipping control of the Senate this November.

 

[England my lionheart]

To answer your post. No, there is no way there would be a 2/3 majority vote to convict. Therefore, witnesses would not make a difference.

So it was a waste of time?,the Dems would know it was so was it propaganda before the next election.

 

[England my lionheart]

The reason was to get public opinion much more on the side of conviction which could translate into much more likelihood of electing a Democrat and flipping control of the Senate this November.

I thought this might be the vase,.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So it was a waste of time?,the Dems would know it was so was it propaganda before the next election.

Not really. Trump's guilt has become even more apparent and the fact that over 70% of the nation wanted to hear from witnesses and the Republicans voted no screams "cover-up". This action will almost certainly harm the Republicans in the upcoming election. They made the error of supporting a corrupt President and they are likely to pay a heavy price for it.

 

[England my lionheart]

Not really. Trump's guilt has become even more apparent and the fact that over 70% of the nation wanted to hear from witnesses and the Republicans voted no screams "cover-up". This action will almost certainly harm the Republicans in the upcoming election. They made the error of supporting a corrupt President and they are likely to pay a heavy price for it.

Or is it a double edged sword,the Republicans could day there was no case to answer,in my thinking I would agree with you but I know little of American politics.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Or is it a double edged sword,the Republicans could day there was no case to answer,in my thinking I would agree with you but I know little of American politics.

The problem is that one cannot defend such a claim. If there was no case then why refuse to hear from witnesses? Trump claimed to want vindication, if actual witnesses are not allowed to testify at best his innocence would always be doubted. With the testimony that was given in the House and nothing to counter it his guilt becomes apparent.

 

[BSM1]

Not really. Trump's guilt has become even more apparent and the fact that over 70% of the nation wanted to hear from witnesses and the Republicans voted no screams "cover-up". This action will almost certainly harm the Republicans in the upcoming election. They made the error of supporting a corrupt President and they are likely to pay a heavy price for it.

So you saying the Dems never had an open and shut case against Trump?

 

[England my lionheart]

The problem is that one cannot defend such a claim. If there was no case then why refuse to hear from witnesses? Trump claimed to want vindication, if actual witnesses are not allowed to testify at best his innocence would always be doubted. With the testimony that was given in the House and nothing to counter it his guilt becomes apparent.

It sure seemed apparent even before the impeachment.

In the UK there would be a vote of "no confidence" in parliament but if Republicans have a majority I guess that's a no go.

 

[SoyLeche]

So you saying the Dems never had an open and shut case against Trump?

They knew from the beginning that there was no chance of removal from office. That was never their goal, and it has nothing to do with whether or not the case was "open and shut".

The entire thing has been about airing the skeletons in Trump's closet, and I'm okay with that.

For perspective, this has been less of a waste of time than the endless Hillary investigations before the 2016 election.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So you saying the Dems never had an open and shut case against Trump?

Quite the opposite. What is it with supporters of Trump and reading comprehension?

 

[Salvador]

Watching the impeachment from an outside perspective I can't get my head around voting on whether to allow witnesses,surely if someone is either guilty or innocent they are essential in proving the accused either way,please explain.

The Biden family received millions of dollars from Hunter Biden's boss at Burisma who is suspected of embezzling millions upon millions of dollars from Ukraine, part of which is funded by American foreign aid paid by American tax payers.

Oligarch who put Hunter Biden on Burisma board suspected of 'large scale theft of government funds' | Daily Mail Online

Of course, the P.O.T.U.S. was right in making sure American foreign aid would not get misappropriated by Ukraine as well as asking for the new Ukrainian President's help with investigating how American foreign aid might have been misappropriated.

Hence, since President Trump did nothing wrong; there's no reason to proceed with a coupe attempt in deposing President Donald J. Trump from power.

 

[Polymath257]

Watching the impeachment from an outside perspective I can't get my head around voting on whether to allow witnesses,surely if someone is either guilty or innocent they are essential in proving the accused either way,please explain.

No. Witnesses would not have made a difference. The Senate was committed to whitewashing Trumps crimes and that is what they will do. Having witnesses might have swayed options against Trump, and the Republicans in Congress didn't want that. But even if there were witnesses, the Senate would have guaranteed anything damaging was kept out of the light and in back rooms.

 

[SoyLeche]

It sure seemed apparent even before the impeachment.

In the UK there would be a vote of "no confidence" in parliament but if Republicans have a majority I guess that's a no go.

The US system has a much higher bar for recalling the executive than most places. I have to think that this is because having an executive that is as powerful as it is now was not really the plan. If it was, it would be easier to reign him in.

 

[esmith]

So it was a waste of time?,the Dems would know it was so was it propaganda before the next election.

Correct

 

[esmith]

Quite the opposite. What is it with supporters of Trump and reading comprehension?

What is it with the no-Trumper's that don't understand that there was no way the Dem's could find 2/3 of the Senators to vote guilty.

 

[England my lionheart]

The Biden family received millions of dollars from Hunter Biden's boss at Burisma who is suspected of embezzling millions upon millions of dollars from Ukraine, part of which is funded by American foreign aid paid by American tax payers.

Oligarch who put Hunter Biden on Burisma board suspected of 'large scale theft of government funds' | Daily Mail Online

Of course, the P.O.T.U.S. was right in making sure American foreign aid would not get misappropriated by Ukraine as well as asking for the new Ukrainian President's help with investigating how American foreign aid might have been misappropriated.

Hence, since President Trump did nothing wrong; there's no reason to proceed with a coupe attempt in deposing President Donald J. Trump from power.

Your link cites "suspected" not proven for Biden however by not allowing witnesses it seems Trump is guilty.