Trump Indicted. To be Arrested in Days.

[pearl]

The arrest of a former president must be a first for the secret service handle.

 

[Windwalker]

We need to see what the charges are. The charges should be serious enough to justify indicting a former Head of State. Otherwise this can become the first volley to a race to the bottom for US politics when the incumbent routinely sends the previous govt's leaders to jail for this and that charges, and vice versa.

I think we need to stop thinking of him as the "former president". They have been after citizen Trump since the 70's. He has a long history of crimes he has been averting, enough to earn him the nickname Teflon Don. Trump has been on their radar before he was President, and after.

These are not manufactured crimes. Let's not forget, it was a grand jury who indicted him, not Alvan Bragg. And it will be a jury of his peers who will convict Citizen Trump, who happened to once be the POTUS. We complain about how rich white people escape the law? Why should we think that being POTUS is an escape from justice too? Becoming the Head of State in America should not become a "get out of jail free card".

And the truth of the matter about the "optics" of this to the world stage? I say holding him accountable sets the standard as it should be for the rest of the world. We believe in the rule of law - not cults of personality! To actually practice our system of government as it was set up to be followed by the founders of the United States of America, shows that no one is above the law. To not do anything against someone who is so flagrantly criminal, would be a stain upon Democracy everywhere.

 

[Revoltingest]

Sorry but it was observed that Trump campaign officials met with Russian officials 112 times during the 2016 campaign from the time Trump announced until the election. There was a lot of suspicious actuvity, and it was assumed to be business related as Trump wanted a hotel in Moscow, but even Trump denied that. And surely you heard Trump seldom said anything negative about putin. And don't forget his infamous appela to Russia to hack Hilary's emails, and days later Russia did hack the RNC and DNC. If not collusion the relationship was fishy. And of course, Manifort gave Russians polling data, so that is something.

No Trump-Russian collusion proven....but deep faith you have in it.

Blah, blah, blah both sides blah, blah blah.

Can't argue with that.
You're more eloquent than usual.

Comments like this doesn't but you in a clean middle ground...

I'm not in the middle.
Nor am I on the right, or canoodling with you lefties.

...this puts you in murky swamp waters with fence sitters and flip floppers...

Wanting to prosecute all Presidents who commit
crimes has me on the "fence"? It appears that I'm
the only one on RF advocating going after'm all.

Did I strike a nerve by want Democrat Presidents
prosecuted too?

...who probably don't vote...

Goodness gracious...such petulant presumption.
I vote.
Do you?

 

[pearl]

Nonsense. The law is the law. Right? It doesn't apply to former presidents? And it's not for paying hush money. It's for lying about it what it was for and committing business fraud. Just wait till the actual charges come out. You can't just say it's about politics, when you don't know what the charges even are.

One thing for sure, if convicted Trump cannot be given a presidential pardon.

 

[Windwalker]

One thing for sure, if convicted Trump cannot be given a presidential pardon.

That's right. And when his sentence in NY ends, he'll be transferred to prison in Georgia, where he can also not be unjustly pardoned by some other abuser of presidential pardons from the party that is against the rule of the law in the United States, except when it applies to minorities and the poor.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Priorities....they're politically driven things.

Yeah, that is the real world for you.

 

[metis]

Agreed, which is likely why Trump felt that he could crime with impunity. This is why the J6 convictions are so important now when MAGA presumably sees all of this as unjust.

It already has, and it will be happening again and again.

Maybe. Let's find out what America is made of. Let's see if it has the resolve to defend its stated principles - whether those principles mean anything in America.

They're quicker at reaching a verdict. Regarding Stormy Daniels, I can't comment on his guilt. But how much more evidence do we need to call Trump guilty of inciting an insurrection, attempting to illegally overturn the results of an election, election tampering, and stealing state secrets? Guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty. You might like to see him walk for all of that, but you already know he's guilty like everybody else who is aware of that evidence.

It's a criminal investigation of a politician. That doesn't make it political.

Long overdue. Hopefully, convictions will follow and set another precedent - a president held accountable for flouting the law.

Now THAT comment is political, and I have little doubt that if the Republicans get the opportunity to exact revenge, they will. It characterizes them psychologically. Isn't that what all of this political theater in the House is - committees that it is hoped will vex and embarrass Democrats? They have no hope of getting any legislation passed, which must be frustrating if you consider yourself a legislator, so they just have to settle for being investigators, which is a trivial function of Congress and not its purpose.

I watched a documentary last night - Nixon in his own words. Like Trump, he was characterized by a need to punish perceived enemies, He wanted the press persecuted. Reagan and Bush also broke the law, but they were not personality disorder cases like Nixon and Trump. If only Nixon had been successfully prosecuted. America failed there.

Yet it's Trump and much of his orbit that is in the crosshairs.

Who got played? She got the bucks and Trump got indicted.

Good post, and you can pretty much tell which people here get their "news" from Fox, Breitbart, etc.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yeah, that is the real world for you.

Your comment raises a question....
Do you think politics doesn't drive
who gets prosecuted for what
regarding high officials?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Your comment raises a question....
Do you think politics doesn't drive
who gets prosecuted for what
regarding high officials?

No, different politics drive different cases.

 

[Windwalker]

The left is no better, with unsupported claims of Russian-Trump collusion.
Both sides should stick to claims with evidenced cromulence.

Unsupported claims? Perhaps you forgot there were 34 individuals indicted in the Muller investigation? And that Trump himself would have been indicted as well, except for the opinion that a sitting president could not be indicted. He was absolutely not cleared of any wrongdoing.

• 13 Russians implicated in election interference: Mueller's team indicted thirteen Russian citizens, the Internet Research Agency (IRA), Concord Management and Consulting and Concord Catering with conducting social media campaigns about the U.S. elections.[166] Twelve of the Russian defendants, who were alleged to be members of the Russian GRU cyber espionage group known as Fancy Bear, were charged in June 2018 with hacking and leaking DNC emails.[167] The other Russian indicted, who was not a direct employee of Fancy Bear, was Russian business tycoon Yevgeny Prigozhin, who was alleged to have served as the financier for the organization.[168] The US government dropped all charges against Concord Management and Consulting and Concord Catering in March 2020.[154] In November 2019, Time magazine reported that it was "unlikely that any of the Russians will ever face a trial in the United States, but the charges make it harder for them to travel overseas".[169]
• Maria Butina, who had claimed to be a Russian gun activist, was investigated by the Special Counsel investigators and then prosecuted by the National Security Law Unit. She was imprisoned for conspiracy to act as an unregistered foreign agent after entering a guilty plea.[170][171]
• Michael Cohen, Trump's personal lawyer, pled guilty to making hush payments to Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal in violation of campaign finance laws, and was convicted for several unrelated counts of bank and tax fraud.[172][173]
• Lieutenant General Michael Flynn, who had been appointed as National Security Advisor by the incoming Trump administration, was dismissed from his position and later pled guilty to making false statements to FBI investigators about his conversations with Russian Ambassador to the United States Sergey Kislyak during the presidential transition.[174][175]
• Rick Gates, former Trump Deputy Campaign Chairman, was indicted along with Paul Manafort in October 2017 on charges related to their consultation work with pro-Russian political figures in Ukraine. The charges were dropped after he pleaded guilty to conspiracy against the United States for making false statements in the investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections.[176]
• Konstantin Kilimnik, Manafort's business partner in Ukraine, was indicted for witness tampering at the behest of Manafort;[177] Kilimnik is suspected of working for Russian intelligence.[178]
• Paul Manafort, former Trump campaign chairman was found guilty on eight felony counts of tax evasion and bank fraud,[179] pursuant to his earlier lobbying activities for the Party of Regions of former Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovich.[180][181] He later pled guilty to conspiracy to defraud and obstruction of justice;[182][183] in total, he was sentenced to over seven years in jail[184] in February 2018.
• George Papadopoulos, Trump campaign foreign policy adviser, was convicted for making false statements to the FBI.[185]
• Roger Stone, a longtime Trump advisor who had met with a Russian person offering to sell derogatory financial information about Hillary Clinton,[186] was indicted on seven charges of lying to Congress and witness tampering. He pled not guilty.[187] The jury subsequently found him guilty on all seven counts.[188]
• Alex van der Zwaan, a Dutch lawyer with the global law firm of Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom, he pleaded guilty to one count of making a false statement to investigators while answering questions about Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections.[189]

Russia collusion "hoax" my ***.

 

[Revoltingest]

No, different politics drive different cases.

Even when your appear to agree,
it seems like you're arguing.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Nope. Will never happen.

Trump is above the law.

It did happen. It is now a fact that a grand jury voted indict him.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Even when your appear to agree,
it seems like you're arguing.

Well, I could give you 2 examples from Denmark, but right now I am going to have dinner.

 

[Revoltingest]

Unsupported claims? Perhaps you forgot there were 34 individuals indicted in the Muller investigation? And that Trump himself would have been indicted as well, except for the opinion that a sitting president could not be indicted. He was absolutely not cleared of any wrongdoing.

• 13 Russians implicated in election interference: Mueller's team indicted thirteen Russian citizens, the Internet Research Agency (IRA), Concord Management and Consulting and Concord Catering with conducting social media campaigns about the U.S. elections.[166] Twelve of the Russian defendants, who were alleged to be members of the Russian GRU cyber espionage group known as Fancy Bear, were charged in June 2018 with hacking and leaking DNC emails.[167] The other Russian indicted, who was not a direct employee of Fancy Bear, was Russian business tycoon Yevgeny Prigozhin, who was alleged to have served as the financier for the organization.[168] The US government dropped all charges against Concord Management and Consulting and Concord Catering in March 2020.[154] In November 2019, Time magazine reported that it was "unlikely that any of the Russians will ever face a trial in the United States, but the charges make it harder for them to travel overseas".[169]
• Maria Butina, who had claimed to be a Russian gun activist, was investigated by the Special Counsel investigators and then prosecuted by the National Security Law Unit. She was imprisoned for conspiracy to act as an unregistered foreign agent after entering a guilty plea.[170][171]
• Michael Cohen, Trump's personal lawyer, pled guilty to making hush payments to Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal in violation of campaign finance laws, and was convicted for several unrelated counts of bank and tax fraud.[172][173]
• Lieutenant General Michael Flynn, who had been appointed as National Security Advisor by the incoming Trump administration, was dismissed from his position and later pled guilty to making false statements to FBI investigators about his conversations with Russian Ambassador to the United States Sergey Kislyak during the presidential transition.[174][175]
• Rick Gates, former Trump Deputy Campaign Chairman, was indicted along with Paul Manafort in October 2017 on charges related to their consultation work with pro-Russian political figures in Ukraine. The charges were dropped after he pleaded guilty to conspiracy against the United States for making false statements in the investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections.[176]
• Konstantin Kilimnik, Manafort's business partner in Ukraine, was indicted for witness tampering at the behest of Manafort;[177] Kilimnik is suspected of working for Russian intelligence.[178]
• Paul Manafort, former Trump campaign chairman was found guilty on eight felony counts of tax evasion and bank fraud,[179] pursuant to his earlier lobbying activities for the Party of Regions of former Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovich.[180][181] He later pled guilty to conspiracy to defraud and obstruction of justice;[182][183] in total, he was sentenced to over seven years in jail[184] in February 2018.
• George Papadopoulos, Trump campaign foreign policy adviser, was convicted for making false statements to the FBI.[185]
• Roger Stone, a longtime Trump advisor who had met with a Russian person offering to sell derogatory financial information about Hillary Clinton,[186] was indicted on seven charges of lying to Congress and witness tampering. He pled not guilty.[187] The jury subsequently found him guilty on all seven counts.[188]
• Alex van der Zwaan, a Dutch lawyer with the global law firm of Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom, he pleaded guilty to one count of making a false statement to investigators while answering questions about Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections.[189]

Russia collusion "hoax" my ***.

Russian interference has been shown.
False statements have been shown.
But this is all bias confirmation.
Collusion with Trump was not shown.

Why use such fluff to distract from the
greater & real crimes of insurrection
& subversion?

 

[Revoltingest]

Well, I could give you 2 examples from Denmark, but right now I am going to have dinner.

I'm sure you're more accomplished at that task.

 

[Windwalker]

Russian interference has been shown.
False statements have been shown.
But this is all bias confirmation.
Collusion with Trump was not shown.

No collusion, was also not shown. So you don't get to make a misleading statement that suggests he was cleared, when in fact the exact opposite is the case. From the same article:

"Mueller did not charge or suggest charges for [...] whether the Trump campaign worked with the Russians to influence the election".[163] The investigation was, however, more complex. On May 29, 2019, in a press conference, Mueller stated that "If we had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said that. We did not, however, make a determination as to whether the president did commit a crime... A president cannot be charged with a federal crime while he is in office. That is unconstitutional. Even if the charge is kept under seal and hidden from public view – that too is prohibited."[164]​

​

So let's be perfectly clear about that. If he had not done anything wrong, they would have said so. Their words. We do not get to say he was cleared, when the report explicitly states that he was not cleared. Correct?

Why use such fluff to distract from the
greater & real crimes of insurrection
& subversion?

But its not fluff. If it were not for that opinion about not idicted a sitting president, it is very likely, in fact pretty obvious that he would have been. It shows a pattern of criminal behaviors by this conman who became president. So it would in fact relevant. Agreed?

He was not cleared.

 

[Revoltingest]

No collusion, was also not shown. So you don't get to make a misleading statement that suggests he was cleared....

You're misleading us all by suggesting that
I claimed Trump was cleared. I didn't.
I only said that your claim of Russian
collusion isn't supported.

Read carefully.

Now, again....
Why use such fluff to distract from the
greater & real crimes of insurrection
& subversion?

 

[Colt]

No collusion, was also not shown. So you don't get to make a misleading statement that suggests he was cleared, when in fact the exact opposite is the case. From the same article:

"Mueller did not charge or suggest charges for [...] whether the Trump campaign worked with the Russians to influence the election".[163] The investigation was, however, more complex. On May 29, 2019, in a press conference, Mueller stated that "If we had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said that. We did not, however, make a determination as to whether the president did commit a crime... A president cannot be charged with a federal crime while he is in office. That is unconstitutional. Even if the charge is kept under seal and hidden from public view – that too is prohibited."[164]​

​

So let's be perfectly clear about that. If he had not done anything wrong, they would have said so. Their words. We do not get to say he was cleared, when the report explicitly states that he was not cleared. Correct?

But its not fluff. If it were not for that opinion about not idicted a sitting president, it is very likely, in fact pretty obvious that he would have been. It shows a pattern of criminal behaviors by this conman who became president. So it would in fact relevant. Agreed?

He was not cleared.

The Clinton Campaign via the DNC paid a former British MI6 agent Christopher Steele to gather accusations from Russian intel agents that was presented as reliable evidence in Americas secret FISA courts to effectively spy on the Trump organization. The FBI suspected that the Russian intel was BS! When appearing before the FISA courts to mislead judges they forgot to mention that.

One FBI lawyer plead guilty to altering emails between the CIA and FBI.

All of the Federal government was enlisted in an attempt to effectively overturn the Trump election.

 

[Windwalker]

You're misleading us all by suggesting that
I claimed Trump was cleared.

Good. Then we are clear that when you said "No collusion was shown", you also mean, "nor was it shown it he didn't". Simply leaving it hanging there as was said, can easily be read as "he was cleared".

Thanks for clearing it up that is not what you intended to suggest. I thought it would be best to make your intended meaning clearer for everyone reading that.

I only said that your claim of Russian
collusion isn't supported.

34 indictments says otherwise. It is supported by that. Not with Trump himself explicitly, for the reasons stated, but it is more than clear that collusion did in fact happen. People pleaded guilty to it. That's not "nothing happened", it's all a hoax, sorts of vacuous claims that politicians make.

Now, again....
Why use such fluff to distract from the
greater & real crimes of insurrection
& subversion?

Again, 34 indictments, guilty pleas and the like are not "fluff". Those are more than significant. But are there greater crimes than that? Hell yes! I agree with that. But in a court of law, the history of a defendant's behaviors show something about their character.

And so it is with Teflon Don. American voters should not assume the Muller probe was a "witch hunt" or a hoax, or that it was found there was "no collusion", when in fact none of that has any basis in reality at all. It resulted in 34 indictments, guilty pleas and prison sentences!

It sounds like we're on the same page. But we should be clear that the Russian collusion investigation was not a 'witch hunt', or a hoax. It was and still is real and no hoax at all.

 

[Secret Chief]

Tuesday 2.15pm.