Trump: "I've told them I want more weeks."

[Pogo]

"While there was a consensus that abortion cannot replace contraceptive use, poor couple communication, lack of planning, lack of acceptable contraceptive methods and the pleasures that people associate with having unprotected sex result in the perception that some individuals rely on abortion over contraception to prevent unintended births"

Do women and men consider abortion as an alternative to contraception in the United States? An exploratory study - PubMed

The USA, a country with widespread access to the full range of modern methods of contraception, continues to have one of the highest abortion rates among developed countries. Forty-nine per cent of women reported ever experiencing an unintended pregnancy in 2001; 48% of these conceptions...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Want to send me the 53$ so I can read the article and see what sort of evidence and argument it makes?
Otherwise we have an abstract that talks about a perceived problem which may or may not really exist or any number of things.

 

[Argentbear]

Then they need to compromise, work out a solution.

What possible compromise is there?

 

[crossfire]

Or maybe European pharmaceuticals are more effective?

Contraceptive failure rates in France: results from a population-based survey

AbstractBACKGROUND. Despite the widespread use of highly effective contraceptive methods in France, one in every three pregnancies is unintended, of which

academic.oup.com

Background snippet:

Despite the widespread use of highly effective contraceptive methods in France, one in every three pregnancies is unintended, of which 65% occur while using contraceptives. In the USA, 49% of pregnancies are unintended, half of which result from contraceptive failure. This study provides estimates of method-specific failure rates among French women.​

In France: 65% of 33% of pregnancies = 21.45% of all pregnancies are unintended pregnancies from contraception failure
In USA: 50% of 49% of pregnancies = 24.5% of all pregnancies are unintended pregnancies from contraception failure

 

[We Never Know]

There are, I'm one, but parenthood and manufacturing a child are not the same thing. Whether anyone wishes to become a parent is up to the individual, whether one wishes to give birth to a child is obviously limited to women and the choice is theirs.

"There are, I'm one"

I haven't ever seen or heard a man in their mid 60's ever present themselves as a single father.

I guess there is a first time for everything.

 

[We Never Know]

Contraceptive failure rates in France: results from a population-based survey

AbstractBACKGROUND. Despite the widespread use of highly effective contraceptive methods in France, one in every three pregnancies is unintended, of which

academic.oup.com

Background snippet:

Despite the widespread use of highly effective contraceptive methods in France, one in every three pregnancies is unintended, of which 65% occur while using contraceptives. In the USA, 49% of pregnancies are unintended, half of which result from contraceptive failure. This study provides estimates of method-specific failure rates among French women.​

In France: 65% of 33% of pregnancies = 21.45% of all pregnancies are unintended pregnancies from contraception failure
In USA: 50% of 49% of pregnancies = 24.5% of all pregnancies are unintended pregnancies from contraception failure

"Women in modern societies use abortion as an adjunct to contraception: when they do not use contraception with a new or pre-existing partner (being reunited or use of alcohol are classic contexts for passions taking over from the intellect) or when the method fails"

Contraception and abortion

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Argentbear]

"There are, I'm one"

I haven't ever seen or heard a man in their mid 60's ever present themselves as a single father.

I guess there is a first time for everything.

I've been a single father for close to 30 years. Maybe you should get out more.

 

[Argentbear]

"While there was a consensus that abortion cannot replace contraceptive use, poor couple communication, lack of planning, lack of acceptable contraceptive methods and the pleasures that people associate with having unprotected sex result in the perception that some individuals rely on abortion over contraception to prevent unintended births"

Do women and men consider abortion as an alternative to contraception in the United States? An exploratory study - PubMed

The USA, a country with widespread access to the full range of modern methods of contraception, continues to have one of the highest abortion rates among developed countries. Forty-nine per cent of women reported ever experiencing an unintended pregnancy in 2001; 48% of these conceptions...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"...which strengthens their position that substituting abortion for contraception is unacceptable."

 

[crossfire]

Want to send me the 53$ so I can read the article and see what sort of evidence and argument it makes?
Otherwise we have an abstract that talks about a perceived problem which may or may not really exist or any number of things.

If you e-mail the authors of the study and ask for a copy of it, they will usually send it to you for free.

 

[We Never Know]

I've been a single father for close to 30 years. Maybe you should get out more.

I'm out and around pretty often and I haven't ever seen or heard a man in their mid 60's ever present themselves as a single father.

Its even a first I have seen it on this forum since I have been here even with all the talk of abortion, kids, etc.

Now I have seen and heard young people that are raising kids say it but not grandpa's.

So like I said evidently there is a first time for everything.

 

[We Never Know]

"...which strengthens their position that substituting abortion for contraception is unacceptable."

An acquaintance has a daughter who is 24 and has had three abortions.
When her parents talked to her, her reply was I'm going to have sex and I want to enjoy it. I dont want to take the pill because its makes me gain weight and it feels better without condoms, so abortion is my choice.

Now that may be a rare occurance but I have my doubts.

 

[Copernicus]

I am pro-choice, because I don't think it is my business what a woman chooses to do about her pregnancy. For the vast majority of women, it must be one of the most difficult and personal decisions of their lives. It is heart-breaking that a man who wants to have a child fathers one, inadvertently or purposely, with a woman who does not want to carry his child to term. But it is still her body and her life that she has to make a decision about, not the father's. If a woman chooses not to marry him or have his child, that must certainly be devastating to him. But his stake in the outcome is less consequential than hers. That's my personal take on it.

Regarding the interest of the government, it is just a question of what makes sense from the perspective of civic need. What is the advantage or disadvantage to the collective well-being of the society it governs? Roe v Wade was in effect for about a half century, and the country did just fine. I understand that anti-abortionists consider abortions to be murder, but it really isn't from a legal perspective. Making it illegal has no general beneficial effect on public welfare, so the government has no clear interest or business in regulating a woman's pregnancy. Women have a right to make their own decisions about carrying pregnancies to term, and nobody is forcing anti-abortion men and women to abort pregnancies that they want to carry to term.

 

[Pogo]

If you e-mail the authors of the study and ask for a copy of it, they will usually send it to you for free.

Wasn't actually for me, was more a comment for @We Never Know who assumed his conclusion from the abstract in spite of the word perceived in the relevant sentence which says read further for a better understanding of what the reality is.
But thanks for the reminder, there are some other things that I might do that with instead of a trip to campus.

 

[We Never Know]

I am pro-choice, because I don't think it is my business what a woman chooses to do about her pregnancy. For the vast majority of women, it must be one of the most difficult and personal decisions of their lives. It is heart-breaking that a man who wants to have a child fathers one inadvertently, or purposely, with a woman who does not want to carry his child to term. But it is still her body and her life that she has to make a decision about, not the father's. If a woman chooses not to marry him or have his child, that must certainly be devastating to him. But his stake in the outcome is less consequential than hers. That's my personal take on it.

Regarding the interest of the government, it is just a question of what makes sense from the perspective of civic need. What is the advantage or disadvantage to the collective well-being of the society it governs? Roe v Wade was in effect for about a half century, and the country did just fine. I understand that anti-abortionists consider abortions to be murder, but it really isn't from a legal perspective. Making it illegal has no general beneficial effect on public welfare, so the government has no clear interest or business in regulating a woman's pregnancy. Women have a right to make their own decisions about carrying pregnancies to term, and nobody is forcing anti-abortion men and women to abort pregnancies that they want to carry to term.

"It is heart-breaking that a man who wants to have a child fathers one inadvertently, or purposely"

It takes two to get pregnant.
You want to blame the man for the pregnancy and praise the women for the abortion.
So IMO that statement is a crock of ****.

Edit... On my many years here on this rock I have seen more women purposely get/try to get pregnant to try to trap the man more than I have seen men purposely get/try to get the woman pregnant to try to trap her.

 

[Copernicus]

"It is heart-breaking that a man who wants to have a child fathers one inadvertently, or purposely"

It takes two to get pregnant.
You want to blame the man for the pregnancy and praise the women for the abortion.
So IMO that statement is a crock of ****.

That is a total straw man. I meant what I said sincerely, but you chose not to believe it. I know that you have a personal stake in such situations, so I'm not going to fight you on your legitimate experiences and feelings. I do not blame you for anything or praise your partner for her decision. I just believe that women have more at stake in such decisions than the men who impregnated them. They are the ones who will bear the greatest burden in raising the children.

I feel this way, partly because of my own personal experience. My sister bore two children from a husband who abandoned her to pursue bonding with another woman, whom he raised children with. He could not support both my sister's children and his new family, so he simply skipped his child care payments and got continual reprieves from a sympathetic male judge that had handled the divorce. Neither my sister nor my erstwhile brother-in-law foresaw that outcome when they got married, but my sister ended up raising my nephew and niece on the strength of her own character and the help of her family. She never remarried after that trauma. I hate to think of how it would have turned out, if she had not been that strong and capable or had a family that could help. So I understand very well why a woman might think twice before bringing an unexpected pregnancy to term. My sister had to deal with a much different situation, but the lesson I come away with is that women have a greater stake in their pregnancies than the men that contribute their sperm to a pregnancy and can abandon their commitments much more easily than the woman.

 

[Pogo]

I'm out and around pretty often and I haven't ever seen or heard a man in their mid 60's ever present themselves as a single father.

Its even a first I have seen it on this forum since I have been here even with all the talk of abortion, kids, etc.

Now I have seen and heard young people that are raising kids say it but not grandpa's.

So like I said evidently there is a first time for everything.

Lots of things probably.

‘There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy’​

an old dead guy reminding us that we need to go beyond personal experiences and expectations to understand the world we live in.

 

[We Never Know]

Lots of things probably.

Lol. I'm pretty sure 'there is a first time for everything' covers and includes 'lots of things'.

But you're the word meaning expert so you tell me.

 

[We Never Know]

That is a total straw man. I meant what I said sincerely, but you chose not to believe it. I know that you have a personal stake in such situations, so I'm not going to fight you on your legitimate experiences and feelings. I do not blame you for anything or praise your partner for her decision. I just believe that women have more at stake in such decisions than the men who impregnated them. They are the ones who will bear the greatest burden in raising the children.

I feel this way, partly because of my own personal experience. My sister bore two children from a husband who abandoned her to pursue bonding with another woman, whom he raised children with. He could not support both their children and his new family, so he simply skipped his child care payments and got continual reprieves from a sympathetic male judge that had handled the divorce. Neither my sister nor my erstwhile brother-in-law foresaw that outcome when they got married, but my sister ended up raising my nephew and niece on the strength of her own character and the help of her family. She never remarried after that trauma. I hate to think of how it would have turned out, if she had not been that strong and capable or had a family that could help. So I understand very well why a woman might think twice before bringing an unexpected pregnancy to term. My sister had to deal with a much different situation, but the lesson I come away with is that women have a greater stake in their pregnancies than the men that contribute their sperm to a pregnancy and can abandon their commitments much more easily than the woman.

Fair enough. Its seems you also have a personal stake in such situations.

 

[Pogo]

An acquaintance has a daughter who is 24 and has had three abortions.
When her parents talked to her, her reply was I'm going to have sex and I want to enjoy it. I dont want to take the pill because its makes me gain weight and it feels better without condoms, so abortion is my choice.

Now that may be a rare occurance but I have my doubts.

well if you had spent the 53$ or taken @crossfire's advice you could maybe speak with some authority beyond personal feelings and even the contra implication that @Argentbear provided from the bit that you did read.

Anecdotes are a very poor way to arrive at understandings of complex problems.

 

[We Never Know]

Wasn't actually for me, was more a comment for @We Never Know who assumed his conclusion from the abstract in spite of the word perceived in the relevant sentence which says read further for a better understanding of what the reality is.
But thanks for the reminder, there are some other things that I might do that with instead of a trip to campus.

I'm not your daddy. You can pay your own way or wonder.

 

[We Never Know]

Wasn't actually for me, was more a comment for @We Never Know who assumed his conclusion from the abstract in spite of the word perceived in the relevant sentence which says read further for a better understanding of what the reality is.
But thanks for the reminder, there are some other things that I might do that with instead of a trip to campus.

I'm not your daddy. You can pay your own way or wonder.

well if you had spent the 53$ or taken @crossfire's advice you could maybe speak with some authority beyond personal feelings and even the contra implication that @Argentbear provided from the bit that you did read.

Anecdotes are a very poor way to arrive at understandings of complex problems.

"Anecdotes are a very poor way to arrive at understandings of complex problems."

So are complaints and whinning but you excel in those it seems.