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Trump or Sharia law?

MD

qualiaphile
Linda Sarsour’s Muslim Identity Politics Epitomize Feminism’s Hypocrisy

Women's March organizer Linda Sarsour has repeatedly defended Sharia law. For those of you who are unfamiliar with the law, there's a lot of unpleasant things going on with it (stoning, beheading, etc). Not to mention the worth of one woman being half of a man, limit of religious freedom,etc.

Not surprisingly Leftists have rushed to defend her, which highlights the movements deep ties and sympathies towards Islamism. There is no real push for true liberal ideals anymore, simply the fight between two forms of fascism.

This leaves us with just one question: Is a strong Right Wing cultural backlash necessary to preserve the ideals of Western civilization? Or should the West just give up?
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
So which is it, the left are communists or the left are fascists, you can't have it both ways; they are polar opposites on the political spectrum. Trump and his supporters are showing a lot of the signs of being a true fascist movement though, they sure ain't communists!!
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Linda Sarsour’s Muslim Identity Politics Epitomize Feminism’s Hypocrisy

Women's March organizer Linda Sarsour has repeatedly defended Sharia law. For those of you who are unfamiliar with the law, there's a lot of unpleasant things going on with it (stoning, beheading, etc). Not to mention the worth of one woman being half of a man, limit of religious freedom,etc.

Not surprisingly Leftists have rushed to defend her, which highlights the movements deep ties and sympathies towards Islamism. There is no real push for true liberal ideals anymore, simply the fight between two forms of fascism.

This leaves us with just one question: Is a strong Right Wing cultural backlash necessary to preserve the ideals of Western civilization? Or should the West just give up?

Way to pose the question and frame the answer as well. Kudos. Very subtle.
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
Help me out here, because I am getting confused. Linda Sarsour or Donald Trump, which one just got elected President of the United States?
 

MD

qualiaphile
So none of the leftists here recognize that the main organizer of the womens march supports another, crueler form of misogyny? Lol typical.
 

MD

qualiaphile
None of us really care about whatever ideology you think is being imposed onto women's marches.

The actual "leftists" have the title of being the most hard on religion group in the history of government so I don't think you have anything to worry about from us.

If you want to pretend that this woman represents a large amount in the American left (who are not leftists in any tangible sense of the word) than you are free to delude yourself as much as you wish.

You seem to be ignoring the Iranian Marxists who allied with Khomeini during the revolution.

Then why do you defend her? How can she represent a movement that's supposed to be against misogyny, while supporting one of the most misogynistic establishments in the history of humanity?
 
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Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
If true it would have to be a greater conspiracy, or wouldn't you think mainstream media should have exposed it?
 

MD

qualiaphile
If true it would have to be a greater conspiracy, or wouldn't you think mainstream media should have exposed it?

It's not PC, plus the mainstream media is very left.

Streamable - simple video sharing
Here we see a woman singing the adhan (horribly mind you) at a feminist rally. Besides the fact that women aren't allowed to do this, I've been witnessing this sort of collaboration since I was in college.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Linda Sarsour’s Muslim Identity Politics Epitomize Feminism’s Hypocrisy

Women's March organizer Linda Sarsour has repeatedly defended Sharia law. For those of you who are unfamiliar with the law, there's a lot of unpleasant things going on with it (stoning, beheading, etc). Not to mention the worth of one woman being half of a man, limit of religious freedom,etc.

Not surprisingly Leftists have rushed to defend her, which highlights the movements deep ties and sympathies towards Islamism. There is no real push for true liberal ideals anymore, simply the fight between two forms of fascism.

This leaves us with just one question: Is a strong Right Wing cultural backlash necessary to preserve the ideals of Western civilization? Or should the West just give up?

The link contains stuff that basically amounts to anti-feminist ranting rather than a reasonable argument. I wouldn't count on it to make a good case for conservatism or against liberalism.

That said, I did read the pro-Shari'a tweets when I googled Linda Sarsour to find out who she was, and I have a few main thoughts on her involvement in the Women's March and endorsement of her by the left:

• As far as I can see, she's not being endorsed for her views on Shari'a; she's being endorsed because she helped organize an initiative calling for women's rights, freedom, and equality. Regardless of what she herself believes regarding Shari'a, there were hundreds of thousands marching in favor of women's rights. So she was basically just another demonstrator at that point.

Further, I imagined if someone like, say, Richard Dawkins or Sam Harris came up with an initiative I agreed with. Those two men have said things that a lot of people would find absolutely insane, and for good reason, in my opinion. But were the initiative beneficial, I'd still support it, and I'd still commend whoever organized it on the positive effort. I would also hope religious people, despite disagreeing with Dawkins and Harris, would support the positive initiative. If we entirely reject people and their ideas—even when there's solid common ground—based on some problematic aspects of their views, we're going to miss out on opportunities for understanding and channeling coordinated efforts toward positive causes, such as women's rights.

• When someone says that they support Shari'a, that doesn't necessarily mean they support stoning, beheading, etc., in the way fundamentalists tend to. Shari'a is Islamic law, which includes praying and fasting, for example. A lot of people say they support Shari'a, but what that means is that they support their view of it. I know some people who are against lashing for premarital sex even though they say they support Shari'a, and lashing is prescribed in the Qur'an itself. So it's not a black-and-white statement when someone states support for Shari'a.

I've wondered how someone can be a feminist while supporting Islamic law, which in most scholarly interpretations is conspicuously patriarchal. What I've come to believe so far is that people who believe in equality make efforts to reconcile their belief in equality with their belief in Islamic law. I have a feminist friend who says that the Qur'an only allows men to beat women "lightly" and that it's only an absolute last resort when all other measures have failed. Obviously, I disagree with her that hitting is acceptable, "lightly" or not, but I can also see from her stances on the vast majority of issues that she's indeed someone who supports feminism and its ideals. Like I said, it's not a black-and-white issue, and having some problematic beliefs doesn't have to mean rejecting a person and their ideas altogether.

So, I definitely think Linda Sarsour's efforts that helped organize the Women's March are commendable and admirable, whereas her views on Shari'a are questionable and should be subject to criticism. One hit, one miss. In this case, however, the hit is absolutely crucial, so I certainly think reasonable people should support her for her recent efforts without letting disagreement cloud their judgment when evaluating her participation in the Women's March and organization thereof.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
So none of the leftists here recognize that the main organizer of the womens march supports another, crueler form of misogyny? Lol typical.

I'm a leftist, I assume?

Why would I defend her? Doesn't sound like my cup of tea at all. Religion and I commonly don't see eye to eye.
 

MD

qualiaphile
The link contains stuff that basically amounts to anti-feminist ranting rather than a reasonable argument. I wouldn't count on it to make a good case for conservatism or against liberalism.

That said, I did read the pro-Shari'a tweets when I googled Linda Sarsour to find out who she was, and I have a few main thoughts on her involvement in the Women's March and endorsement of her by the left:

• As far as I can see, she's not being endorsed for her views on Shari'a; she's being endorsed because she helped organize an initiative calling for women's rights, freedom, and equality. Regardless of what she herself believes regarding Shari'a, there were hundreds of thousands marching in favor of women's rights. So she was basically just another demonstrator at that point.

Further, I imagined if someone like, say, Richard Dawkins or Sam Harris came up with an initiative I agreed with. Those two men have said things that a lot of people would find absolutely insane, and for good reason, in my opinion. But were the initiative beneficial, I'd still support it, and I'd still commend whoever organized it on the positive effort. I would also hope religious people, despite disagreeing with Dawkins and Harris, would support the positive initiative. If we entirely reject people and their ideas—even when there's solid common ground—based on some problematic aspects of their views, we're going to miss out on opportunities for understanding and channeling coordinated efforts toward positive causes, such as women's rights.

• When someone says that they support Shari'a, that doesn't necessarily mean they support stoning, beheading, etc., in the way fundamentalists tend to. Shari'a is Islamic law, which includes praying and fasting, for example. A lot of people say they support Shari'a, but what that means is that they support their view of it. I know some people who are against lashing for premarital sex even though they say they support Shari'a, and lashing is prescribed in the Qur'an itself. So it's not a black-and-white statement when someone states support for Shari'a.

I've wondered how someone can be a feminist while supporting Islamic law, which in most scholarly interpretations is conspicuously patriarchal. What I've come to believe so far is that people who believe in equality make efforts to reconcile their belief in equality with their belief in Islamic law. I have a feminist friend who says that the Qur'an only allows men to beat women "lightly" and that it's only an absolute last resort when all other measures have failed. Obviously, I disagree with her, but I can also see from her stances on the vast majority of issues that she's indeed someone who supports feminism and its ideals. Like I said, it's not a black-and-white issue, and having some problematic beliefs doesn't have to mean rejecting a person and their ideas altogether.

So, I definitely think Linda Sarsour's efforts that helped organize the Women's March are commendable and admirable, whereas her views on Shari'a are questionable and should be subject to criticism. One hit, one miss. In this case, however, the hit is absolutely crucial, so I certainly think reasonable people should support her for her recent efforts without letting disagreement cloud their judgment when evaluating her participation in the Women's March and organization thereof.

To be honest I think the whole march was bull****. Now I am labelled as anti feminist, but I've worked with human rights organizations that deal with war and rape in the Middle East.

Where were the feminist marching when ISIS was raping tens of thousands of Yezidi women? The same ISIS who have been funded and trained by KSA and Turkey, American allies. When Obama was supporting rebels that caused chaos in Syria, and countless rapes of all women, where were the marchers?

How about the famine in Yemen, affecting women and children?

Or the mass rapes of the Libyan civil war? Where were people marching then?

This is an attempt by the Left to simply pick and choose their targets. Trump made comments, so he's bad. Obama has tremendous blood on his hands, not to mention countless rapes, but he's good? Sarsour has defended Saudi, and to me that suggests her intentions are far more politically motivated than ideological.

A true feminist would target the military war machine of the United States as well as the deep misogyny of Islam, rather than picking and choosing targets based on facebook feeds. If you're defending Sarsour because what she ended up organizing was good, then you must also be prepared to defend Trump's criticism of Islam.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
This leaves us with just one question: Is a strong Right Wing cultural backlash necessary to preserve the ideals of Western civilization? Or should the West just give up?

Let me get this straight: You think a "cultural backlash" by people who by and large voted to put in charge of the world's greatest nuclear arsenal a man who appears to be a pathological liar, a bully, and a narcissist -- is going to save Western civilization? Hell, if you sincerely think that those people are going to save us, MD, you've already given up hope. You just don't know yet that you have.
 

MD

qualiaphile
Source? Sounds to me like you're fabricating a level of support for her on the left she does not in fact enjoy. Who is she, anyway?

Elle Magazine Defends Linda Sarsour, Attacking Her Critics As Islamophobic
‘I march with Linda’ trends as Twitter defends Women’s March leader against Islamophobic abuse
People Are Rallying In Support Of A Women’s March Organizer After Right-Wing Attacks

A simple google search will show that I'm not fabricating anything, and that you're simply leveling accusations to support your own political perspective, as you tend to do.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
There were thousands of women's march organizers, where in the world do you get the idea that this one is so special.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
But most people in your camp support her, you don't see a problem with that?

My camp?
What camp?

I'm completely confused by this thread. I'll answer based on what I think you mean.

You have identified someone who is a leftie.
You have identified an article outlining hypocrisy from said someone.
You then assume all lefties are defending said hypocrisy.
Further, you assume all people left of you are lefties.

It's not just a bridge too far, but about 100 bridges too far.
It's akin to judging all 'righties' as card-carrying members of the KKK.

You'll know when I defend her, because I'll actually say something in her defence.
 
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