Truth or Comfort?

[Kerr]

I suspect this may be because you are selecting the lesser of two discomforts. You can't wrap your head around afterlife concepts, and that causes you greater cognitive dissonance than the choice of rejecting them. The discomfort of believing in something you think is a lie is greater than the discomfort of believing in what you think is the truth. Sort of a no-brainer, really, and I'd hazard to say the vast majority of people are more comfortable believing in what they think is true than what they think is a lie. This is why I think this entire thread presents a false dichotomy. People simply do not hold beliefs over long periods of time that cause them cognitive dissonance. They find some way to resolve it, often by finding comfort in what they perceive to be the truth of things.

Ok, after thinking about it I think I should clarify something. I dont feel comforted by my view of an afterlife. Emotionally it is discomforting. It does however form a more consistent structure in my mind, like the peaces fit together better. Personally I would say that calling that comfort would be to stretch the definition of comfort, but I can see what you mean and I can agree that it perhaps has some truth in it. Happen to be very dependent on structures and I do strive to form them, because without them I do not function that well. But again, when I said I do not choose my view of an afterlife for comfort I mean I do not feel comforted by it, even though choosing the alternative would break the structures in my mind. A broken structure can be described as discomfort, of course, but I percieve that my choices has to do with functioning and understanding the world rather then avoiding discomfort. Hope that makes better sense.

EDIT:

Another thing is that the world "comfort" may have more meanings then I thought of. In my native language it would translate to "tröstande" or something like that, which means something in line "to comfort" or "to be comforted"... hard to explain, but I just wanted to say that there may be a slight language barrier here.

 

[Kathryn]

Ok let's just go over this. Existentialism says there is no set purpose. We are not made, and we do not have a reason. The universe is chaotic and uncaring. We are all isolated, trapped in our own minds so never really make connections and such (i have a thread on this). Existance is pretty much a blank slate. You have two options: either commit suicide or create meaning for this life, like paining the canvas. It has nothing to do with comfort. I know life os meaningless, I know I will die, everyone I love will die, my accomplishments will fade away... I just choose to take this chance of being alive and make something of it. What else is there to do? Plenty of time to be dead.

How do you create "meaning?" How would you define that term? And if you "create meaning," in your life, can that "meaning" bleed over into other lives and give them meaning that they didn't even create?

Sorry, but this sounds like a bunch of depressing hooey to me - guess that's why I'm not an existentialist!

 

[Kathryn]

Existentialism is not saying to live a lie. It is saying to make the best out of meaningless existence, that is not comforting. What else is there to do but make something of yourself? You don't need to do anuthing, and through such (lack of acts) you become nothing. I still do not see the comfort in it. Life is meaningless amd absurd but that doesn't mean we have to be depressed, and not being depressed is not the same as seeking comfort.

If life is meaningless and absurd (not to mention often very painful) why wouldn't we be depressed? Why would we "do anything to make the best out of a meaningless existence?" What would give our actions any meaning or merit whatsoever? Would it be wrong to kill yourself, or heck, even others? Why or why not? If life is meaningless, it seems such actions would be meaningless as well. Why not save everyone a lot of long term pain and expense and hassle?

 

[Kathryn]

The simplest societies tend to have rather high death rates for children, though, and an overall younger population.

Most animals in nature have a pretty high death rate, especially among the young. Humans without technology still have a lower death rate than many other animals, in part because humans have a fairly small number of offspring (typically one at a time, sometimes two, rarely more), so it's not like the many animals whose strategy is to have a ton of offspring and have a few survive. But modern medical techniques improve childbirth survival rate, substantially increase the chances a child will make it to adulthood, and increase the life expectancy of adults.

So there's a trade-off. Technology and complexity brings blessings and curses. In addition to health, technology and complexity have given us things like telescopes, microscopes, safe travel, to allow us to learn more about our world.

I'm not really one to idealize extremely simple societies because based on how my birth went, I'd almost certainly be among those that didn't make it. So I kind of view it like, "Yeah, they do have some advantages. Some disadvantages too. And I'd be dead on arrival anyway. "

I know you're really talking about death rates in the young, but I just wanted to point out that the death rate in humans is currently at 100 percent.

Just sayin'.

 

[beerisit]

I know you're really talking about death rates in the young, but I just wanted to point out that the death rate in humans is currently at 100 percent.

Just sayin'.

That's what I say..............as a smoker and I haven't been hit by a meteorite yet either.

 

[Willamena]

I don't understand people who look for a meaning to life.

What meaning is outside of it? whatever meaning you find (wheter good or bad or neutral) is a meaning of life. Lack has no lack of meanings, Life has a monopoly on them!

As a phrase, "meaning of life" has a particular connotation that looks beyond an individual's purpose, and aligns his purpose with a greater purpose. It could be any of a number of greater purposes, but Westernized images of "God" fit the bill quite nicely, as the stories emphasize the need to align your interests to that of the "God" (invest in God's Will).

 

[Willamena]

There is no logic you could give to support that claim. The fact that we have and still are searching for meaning simply shows that we are not as intelligent as we think.

I think there is, but you have to turn to the meta-picture to see it: how and why we make "meaning"; whether we are innately, perhaps unconsciously, aware of the process; and then how we'd extrapolate that to find "greater meaning."

 

[Willamena]

Truth is relative; comfort is fleeting. I'll take change, whatever it brings.

If change is true, then truth doesn't stand in contrast to it. Same with comfort--if comfort is true, then truth doesn't stand in contrast to it.

 

[Willamena]

How do you create "meaning?" How would you define that term? And if you "create meaning," in your life, can that "meaning" bleed over into other lives and give them meaning that they didn't even create?

Adam... going around the Garden... naming things. It's pretty much all we do, create meaning. From the very first instance of associating a face, hovering over the crib, with a significance like "mommy" or "hey, you," we have drawn a relationship between something real in the world (a sign) and something inside that has cognized it (a thought, a symbol), and will retain it in memory and recognize it.

Painting the canvas--the recognition of which nothing could be more joyous.

But you're right, some versions of existentialism take the path of depressed hooey.

 

[beerisit]

I know you're really talking about death rates in the young, but I just wanted to point out that the death rate in humans is currently at 100 percent.

Just sayin'.

Kathryn, why then do we spend so much time and energy trying to avoid the inevitable? Just as importantly, why do the lovers of god and heaven do the same? There are those of a religious persuasion who have claimed that because I have no belief in an afterlife that they can't understand me not just killing myself. Now I realise that the concept is better applied to a believer in a glorious afterlife, but some people are naturally stupid.
Now I have been a believer and my mother was up until she died (kicking and screaming) at 92yrs of age. Kicking and screaming is an exaggeration I'm sorry
The fact is that my mother lived for 8yrs after my father died, and every day she prayed to die and be with him, but she could no more contemplate euthanasia than fly to the moon.
Sorry, drunken rant over.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

How do you create "meaning?" How would you define that term? And if you "create meaning," in your life, can that "meaning" bleed over into other lives and give them meaning that they didn't even create?

Sorry, but this sounds like a bunch of depressing hooey to me - guess that's why I'm not an existentialist!

Existentialism is anything but depressing.

 

[beerisit]

Existentialism is anything but depressing.

Is that because it's intent is to make you contented?

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Is that because it's intent is to make you contented?

With living life so I would say say.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

If life is meaningless and absurd (not to mention often very painful) why wouldn't we be depressed? Why would we "do anything to make the best out of a meaningless existence?" What would give our actions any meaning or merit whatsoever? Would it be wrong to kill yourself, or heck, even others? Why or why not? If life is meaningless, it seems such actions would be meaningless as well. Why not save everyone a lot of long term pain and expense and hassle?

Not if it's absurd. It is. Bible says, I believe it and that settles it.

Ecclesiastes Chap 1:

1 The words of the Teacher, son of David, king in Jerusalem:

2 “Meaningless! Meaningless!”
says the Teacher.
“Utterly meaningless!
Everything is meaningless.”

3 What do people gain from all their labors
at which they toil under the sun?
4 Generations come and generations go,
but the earth remains forever.
5 The sun rises and the sun sets,
and hurries back to where it rises.
6 The wind blows to the south
and turns to the north;
round and round it goes,
ever returning on its course.
7 All streams flow into the sea,
yet the sea is never full.
To the place the streams come from,
there they return again.
8 All things are wearisome,
more than one can say.
The eye never has enough of seeing,
nor the ear its fill of hearing.
9 What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
10 Is there anything of which one can say,
“Look! This is something new”?
It was here already, long ago;
it was here before our time.
11 No one remembers the former generations,
and even those yet to come
will not be remembered
by those who follow them.

12 I, the Teacher, was king over Israel in Jerusalem. 13 I applied my mind to study and to explore by wisdom all that is done under the heavens. What a heavy burden God has laid on mankind! 14 I have seen all the things that are done under the sun; all of them are meaningless, a chasing after the wind.

15 What is crooked cannot be straightened;
what is lacking cannot be counted.

16 I said to myself, “Look, I have increased in wisdom more than anyone who has ruled over Jerusalem before me; I have experienced much of wisdom and knowledge.” 17 Then I applied myself to the understanding of wisdom, and also of madness and folly, but I learned that this, too, is a chasing after the wind.

18 For with much wisdom comes much sorrow;
the more knowledge, the more grief.

 

[beerisit]

With living life so I would say say.

well it's a damn good thing it got it's primary purpose right. I really am just joking mate. Mea Culpa?

 

[CynthiaCypher]

well it's a damn good thing it got it's primary purpose right. I really am just joking mate. Mea Culpa?

Not many philosophies or religions get the primary purpose of living life right, they have to add a whole bunch of gobbledygook.

 

[Orias]

If it came down to it, would you rather accept what is true or something that is comfortable? For example, say that all logic and evidence points to there being no afterlife. Will you accept that this life is it (truth) or would you continue telling yourself you will go to paradise after you die (comfort)?

Realistically, truth is founded upon comfort.

 

[InChrist]

Not if it's absurd. It is. Bible says, I believe it and that settles it.

Ecclesiastes Chap 1:

1 The words of the Teacher, son of David, king in Jerusalem:

2 “Meaningless! Meaningless!”
says the Teacher.
“Utterly meaningless!
Everything is meaningless.”

The conclusion given in the Ecclesiastes is that life is vain and meaningless without God. A life lived in love and obedience to God brings meaning.

[FONT=&quot]Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:[/FONT]

Fear God and keep His commandments,
For this is man’s all.
For God will bring every work into judgment,
Including every secret thing,
Whether good or evil. Ecclesiastes 12: 13-14

 

[CynthiaCypher]

The conclusion given in the Ecclesiastes is that life is vain and meaningless without God. A life lived in love and obedience to God brings meaning.

[FONT=&quot]Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:[/FONT]

Fear God and keep His commandments,
For this is man’s all.
For God will bring every work into judgment,
Including every secret thing,
Whether good or evil. Ecclesiastes 12: 13-14

How existentialist of you! Kierkegaard said just about the same thing.

 

[Orias]

So we have reached the conclusion that all perceiving is...existential.

What now?