TRUTH - What is it? ...The Quantum Vacuum Flux?

[drsatish]

TRUTH - What is it? ...The Quantum Vacuum Flux?

TRUTH - What is it? .

Perhaps, it is NOT a LIE!

Then, What is a LIE?

We have only a Few Avenues to find out What is T &...L..

a. "Historingology" - Study of the Past...
including Everything that happened before the last 0.99 seconds..
..which includes analysis of....'past'....and .....3.9 interpretations of the same.

b. "Presentology" - Experience the ....NOW!....
...which is the Razor Thin Slice of TIME...in All the Matter of the Universe!
...What EXISTS ..AS TRULY REAL ...IN....CURRENT REALITY!
.....Just this Micro-Thin-Slot Perception...
....of WHATEVER ....is Out There!

Can ANYBODY....DENY....This Statement?

PAST...is a CONJECTURE.....a...Distant Non-Existent SOMETHING..
I don't know what!!!!
WHERE IS IT?..
....except in some molecular arrangement in a brain-liquid?

..do you get it?....

FUTURE..is ALSO a CONJECTURE....a...Distant Non-Existent SOMETHING..
I don't know what!!!!
WHERE IS IT?..
....except in some molecular arrangement in a brain-liquid?

..do you get it?....

Speaking Metaphorically,

TRUTH ...is the ..OCEAN....
..LIES....are the WAVES....which form on top of it....clash into one another or
follow in succession....
..All Life-Forms....are just WAVES on this OCEAN....
experiencing and Living the Lie....that the Wave has an Independent IDENTITY
and FORM and MOTION and SOUND and PROGRESS...
.....independent of and devoid of the Ocean..!!!!
...and All Waves...come to an End....
..but the Ocean Lives ON!!!!!!!!

..the SAME is TRUE..EVEN for INANIMATE MATTER!!!!
.....This vs That...of Everything...ARISES...from this OCEAN!
.....Proton ...Electron
.....Positron...Electron...
.....Anti-Matter....Matter...
.....Exploding Supernovae.......Withdrawing Black Holes....
.....Go FORWARD & BACKWARD....in TIME....! (of Super Physics!)
.....of Big Bang...and...Big Crunch..
.....of Cyclical Creation and Destruction of EVERYTHING...that can Possibly Exist!

The TRUTH...is NEITHER POSITIVE...NOR...NEGATIVE...!

It is CLOSER to the NOTHING-EMPTINESS..

.....the Sunyata of the Buddha...
.....Śūnyatā - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

...the 4K Background Radiation....
...Cosmic microwave background radiation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

...THE QUANTUM VACUUM FLUX!
Free Energy: The Race to Zero Point | Watch Free Documentary Online

Do you see the Drop Hole?
Satish

 

[bhaktajan]

The void is an example of Absolute-ness.

A truth is absolute.

 

[Nadia Faiazova]

Hi! Jesus once was asked your question. He prayed:"Sanctify them by means of the truth; your word is truth" (John 17:17)

 

[micrurus]

Sigmund freud!

 

[BadDog]

Uh, I'm having trouble following this thread. Can anyone post on what the "Quantum Vacuum Flux" is - physics-wise?

Just FYI I am a Christian, so obviously I believe in God, and I also hold to a Big Bang cosmology, not believing it to be contrary to Genesis theology. However, I believe it was initiated by God, is constrained by gravitational relativistic effects, and that the universe is not infinite in extent nor eternal - it had a beginning.

Thx,

BD

 

[jtartar]

TRUTH - What is it? ...The Quantum Vacuum Flux?

TRUTH - What is it? .

Perhaps, it is NOT a LIE!

Then, What is a LIE?

We have only a Few Avenues to find out What is T &...L..

a. "Historingology" - Study of the Past...
including Everything that happened before the last 0.99 seconds..
..which includes analysis of....'past'....and .....3.9 interpretations of the same.

b. "Presentology" - Experience the ....NOW!....
...which is the Razor Thin Slice of TIME...in All the Matter of the Universe!
...What EXISTS ..AS TRULY REAL ...IN....CURRENT REALITY!
.....Just this Micro-Thin-Slot Perception...
....of WHATEVER ....is Out There!

Can ANYBODY....DENY....This Statement?

PAST...is a CONJECTURE.....a...Distant Non-Existent SOMETHING..
I don't know what!!!!
WHERE IS IT?..
....except in some molecular arrangement in a brain-liquid?

..do you get it?....

FUTURE..is ALSO a CONJECTURE....a...Distant Non-Existent SOMETHING..
I don't know what!!!!
WHERE IS IT?..
....except in some molecular arrangement in a brain-liquid?

..do you get it?....

Speaking Metaphorically,

TRUTH ...is the ..OCEAN....
..LIES....are the WAVES....which form on top of it....clash into one another or
follow in succession....
..All Life-Forms....are just WAVES on this OCEAN....
experiencing and Living the Lie....that the Wave has an Independent IDENTITY
and FORM and MOTION and SOUND and PROGRESS...
.....independent of and devoid of the Ocean..!!!!
...and All Waves...come to an End....
..but the Ocean Lives ON!!!!!!!!

..the SAME is TRUE..EVEN for INANIMATE MATTER!!!!
.....This vs That...of Everything...ARISES...from this OCEAN!
.....Proton ...Electron
.....Positron...Electron...
.....Anti-Matter....Matter...
.....Exploding Supernovae.......Withdrawing Black Holes....
.....Go FORWARD & BACKWARD....in TIME....! (of Super Physics!)
.....of Big Bang...and...Big Crunch..
.....of Cyclical Creation and Destruction of EVERYTHING...that can Possibly Exist!

The TRUTH...is NEITHER POSITIVE...NOR...NEGATIVE...!

It is CLOSER to the NOTHING-EMPTINESS..

.....the Sunyata of the Buddha...
.....Śūnyatā - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

...the 4K Background Radiation....
...Cosmic microwave background radiation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

...THE QUANTUM VACUUM FLUX!
Free Energy: The Race to Zero Point | Watch Free Documentary Online

Do you see the Drop Hole?
Satish

drsatish,
When Jesus Christ was before Pontius Pilate, he told him that one of the reasons he came to earth was to bear witness to the TRUTH, John 18:36,37.
So the only truth that really matters to all mankind is the truth that can mean our EVERLASTING lives, God's word, The Bible, John 17:3, 17.
God has promised to protect His word from becoming adulterated, Ps 12:6,7. God could not judge this world if He allowed His word to become corrupted, Rom 3:5,6, Acts 17:26-31.

 

[BadDog]

OK, no responses... as I understand it, the Quantum Vacuum Flux refers to what may have happened "before" the big bang. That period of time after the BB of rapid expansion is called "inflation" and extends to about 300,000 years.

I say before the BB in quotes above because the BB is not a conventional explosion of matter into space, but the "explosion" of matter and space together with pressure throughout. When we consider that space and time are interconnected in Einstein's "space-time continuum" time really did not exist before the BB. Of course God did and has always existed.

From what I have been able to research on the quantum flux, it is an attempt to explain where the energy came from to account for the matter that was in existence in the singularity of the BB at time t = 0. Stephen Hawking says that the total energy of the universe is "0." Don't understand that.

Comments?

BD

 

[BadDog]

jtartar,

Regarding Psalm 12:6, 7 - here's the NET Bible:

12:6, 7 The Lord’s words are absolutely reliable. They are as untainted as silver purified in a furnace on the ground, where it is thoroughly refined.
You, Lord, will protect them; you will continually shelter each one from these evil people

tn The third person plural pronominal suffix on the verb is masculine, referring back to the “oppressed” and “needy” in v. 5 (both of those nouns are plural in form), suggesting that the verb means “protect” here. The suffix does not refer to אִמֲרוֹת (’imarot, “words&#8221 in v. 6, because that term is feminine gender.

IOW, "them" does not refer to the words of the Bible, but to people.

BD

 

[PolyHedral]

My truth is more arcane than your truth.



(Click the image if you want to see what it's about.)

 

[Kilgore Trout]

TRUTH - What is it? ...The Quantum Vacuum Flux?

TRUTH - What is it? .

Perhaps, it is NOT a LIE!

Then, What is a LIE?

We have only a Few Avenues to find out What is T &...L..

a. "Historingology" - Study of the Past...
including Everything that happened before the last 0.99 seconds..
..which includes analysis of....'past'....and .....3.9 interpretations of the same.

b. "Presentology" - Experience the ....NOW!....
...which is the Razor Thin Slice of TIME...in All the Matter of the Universe!
...What EXISTS ..AS TRULY REAL ...IN....CURRENT REALITY!
.....Just this Micro-Thin-Slot Perception...
....of WHATEVER ....is Out There!

Can ANYBODY....DENY....This Statement?

PAST...is a CONJECTURE.....a...Distant Non-Existent SOMETHING..
I don't know what!!!!
WHERE IS IT?..
....except in some molecular arrangement in a brain-liquid?

..do you get it?....

FUTURE..is ALSO a CONJECTURE....a...Distant Non-Existent SOMETHING..
I don't know what!!!!
WHERE IS IT?..
....except in some molecular arrangement in a brain-liquid?

..do you get it?....

Speaking Metaphorically,

TRUTH ...is the ..OCEAN....
..LIES....are the WAVES....which form on top of it....clash into one another or
follow in succession....
..All Life-Forms....are just WAVES on this OCEAN....
experiencing and Living the Lie....that the Wave has an Independent IDENTITY
and FORM and MOTION and SOUND and PROGRESS...
.....independent of and devoid of the Ocean..!!!!
...and All Waves...come to an End....
..but the Ocean Lives ON!!!!!!!!

..the SAME is TRUE..EVEN for INANIMATE MATTER!!!!
.....This vs That...of Everything...ARISES...from this OCEAN!
.....Proton ...Electron
.....Positron...Electron...
.....Anti-Matter....Matter...
.....Exploding Supernovae.......Withdrawing Black Holes....
.....Go FORWARD & BACKWARD....in TIME....! (of Super Physics!)
.....of Big Bang...and...Big Crunch..
.....of Cyclical Creation and Destruction of EVERYTHING...that can Possibly Exist!

The TRUTH...is NEITHER POSITIVE...NOR...NEGATIVE...!

It is CLOSER to the NOTHING-EMPTINESS..

.....the Sunyata of the Buddha...
.....Śūnyatā - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

...the 4K Background Radiation....
...Cosmic microwave background radiation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

...THE QUANTUM VACUUM FLUX!
Free Energy: The Race to Zero Point | Watch Free Documentary Online

Do you see the Drop Hole?
Satish

I think this might be Dane Cook.

 

[BadDog]

I would just like to add that since matter, space and time has no meaning "prior" to the BB, whatever we deduce about the quantum flux must be pure speculation as best. We cannot repeat it as an experiment, and there cannot be any data to support or bring into question our particular views on it.

Previously I mentioned that S. Hawking says that the total amount of energy in the universe was = 0. He argues that gravitational negative energy must have been exerted IOT separate the masses, and hence all energy is and always has been in total = 0.

Can anyone explain or support this (or refute it)? It would be nice if everyone did not ignore me.

Comments?

BD

 

[BadDog]

Does anyone know anything about the "quantum flux," or is everyone just talking out of their hat? I'd like some help on this, if possible here.

Thx,

BD

 

[confusedius]

BadDog-

I feel your pain...

james

 

[PolyHedral]

Does anyone know anything about the "quantum flux," or is everyone just talking out of their hat? I'd like some help on this, if possible here.

Thx,

BD

Quantum foam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

tl;dr: At the smallest of scales, empty spacetime randomly warps

 

[BadDog]

zipped - had to remove the link

tl;dr: At the smallest of scales, empty spacetime randomly warps

Thx. I followed that link to another and found:

A slightly more precise, but still much simplified, view of the process is that vacuum fluctuations cause a particle-antiparticle pair to appear close to the event horizon of a black hole. One of the pair falls into the black hole whilst the other escapes. In order to preserve total energy, the particle that fell into the black hole must have had a negative energy (with respect to an observer far away from the black hole). By this process, the black hole loses mass, and, to an outside observer, it would appear that the black hole has just emitted a particle. In another model, the process is a quantum tunneling effect, whereby particle-antiparticle pairs will form from the vacuum, and one will tunnel outside the event horizon.
(zipped - had to remove the link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawking_radiation )

This makes more sense to me than what Hawking has said on the matter. But bottom line, how could the total energy of the universe be zero?!

BD

 

[PolyHedral]

But bottom line, how could the total energy of the universe be zero?!
BD

Atoms, etc, have positive energy, obviously. But consider what happens to an atom in the gravitational field, of say, Earth. If I leave the atom unsupported in the field, it'll accelerate and fall towards Earth. If it's accelerating, that means it's gaining energy, from no apparent source. It's generally accepted in physics (to make the math work out, among other things. ) that the atom is converting it's "potential" energy in the gravitational field into actual, kinetic energy. Moving closer to Earth, and so deeper into the gravity well, decreases the atom's potential energy, so that's exactly what it does.

However, something odd happens if you think about what I have to do to drag the atom out of Earth's gravitational field: I have to add energy to it i.e. push it. As the atom I've pushed travels away from Earth, it transforms the kinetic energy my push gave it back into gravitational potential energy, and slows down. However, a quirk of the mathematics means that if I give the atom just the right amount of energy with my push, it will never stop entirely in any finite distance. Instead, it is said to stop at "infinity," and it is here it has the maximum possible gravitational potential energy, which is actually a finite value.

That left the physicists with one last problem. They had an equation that told them the difference of potential energy between two different points, so they only needed a zero for their scale. Their answer: two masses have zero gravitational potential energy between them when they are infinitely far away. This means that any two real-world masses have negative, finite gravitational potential energy.

It seems to be a popular hypothesis that the positive energy of all the particles in the universe exactly cancels out the negative energy generated by gravity. (and a couple of other fields, but gravity is the big one over universal scales.)

I hope that helps. (I didn't really mean for it to be so long.)

 

[Sum1sGruj]

The 'quantum' at the beginning will always be speculative. There is no way to prove that this is how reality was born.
Under this idea, all existence was a quantum of emptiness. But according to physical law, even nothing is unstable. And so singularities pop up everywhere. The big bang was a singularity. It didn't 'explode', it expanded. We are in it. Or of it, really.
But again, it's speculative. And will remain that way even if we discover every dark corner of the universe and master space and time itself.

Soryy, my agnostic bleeds through

 

[BadDog]

The 'quantum' at the beginning will always be speculative. There is no way to prove that this is how reality was born.
Under this idea, all existence was a quantum of emptiness. But according to physical law, even nothing is unstable. And so singularities pop up everywhere. The big bang was a singularity. It didn't 'explode', it expanded. We are in it. Or of it, really.
But again, it's speculative. And will remain that way even if we discover every dark corner of the universe and master space and time itself.

Soryy, my agnostic bleeds through

Agree with underlined portion 100%. It is not possible to know anything at all or receive any data at all of that period "before" the BB.

I also agree and refer to the BB as "expansion" in my classes to my students, because otherwise they bring all this junk and preconceived ideas into the mix.

Agree completely, and I'm not agnostic.

BD

 

[BadDog]

Atoms, etc, have positive energy, obviously. But consider what happens to an atom in the gravitational field, of say, Earth. If I leave the atom unsupported in the field, it'll accelerate and fall towards Earth. If it's accelerating, that means it's gaining energy, from no apparent source. It's generally accepted in physics (to make the math work out, among other things. ) that the atom is converting it's "potential" energy in the gravitational field into actual, kinetic energy. Moving closer to Earth, and so deeper into the gravity well, decreases the atom's potential energy, so that's exactly what it does.

However, something odd happens if you think about what I have to do to drag the atom out of Earth's gravitational field: I have to add energy to it i.e. push it. As the atom I've pushed travels away from Earth, it transforms the kinetic energy my push gave it back into gravitational potential energy, and slows down. However, a quirk of the mathematics means that if I give the atom just the right amount of energy with my push, it will never stop entirely in any finite distance. Instead, it is said to stop at "infinity," and it is here it has the maximum possible gravitational potential energy, which is actually a finite value.

That left the physicists with one last problem. They had an equation that told them the difference of potential energy between two different points, so they only needed a zero for their scale. Their answer: two masses have zero gravitational potential energy between them when they are infinitely far away. This means that any two real-world masses have negative, finite gravitational potential energy.

It seems to be a popular hypothesis that the positive energy of all the particles in the universe exactly cancels out the negative energy generated by gravity. (and a couple of other fields, but gravity is the big one over universal scales.)

I hope that helps. (I didn't really mean for it to be so long.)

Thx PolyMan - nice "avatar",

What you've posted (and I always get long-winded) seems to agree with Hawking, but I still cannot make logical or mathematical sense of it.

I understand the conservation of energy comments about how energy changes from PE to KE and vice-versa. However, the work-energy theorem says that work done, such as in pushing something out to a finite gravitational point from the earth, = force * distance - the distance being the height above the gravitational potential.

I don't understand the underlined portion above - it should be positive grav. PE - by definition. I guess I'm not following your logic, if you can bear with me a bit here. If I am pushing the mass so that it travels at a constant speed, there is no KE imposed upon it. And when that object accelerates toward the earth it's gaining KE from an apparent source - its grav. PE.

Two masses have zero PE if they are infinitely far apart based on Newton's universal gravitational law (F = product of masses divided by the square of distance separating them times the universal gravitational constant - 6.673 * 10 -11 Nm2/kg2) They have a positive grav. PE otherwise. Where does the zero grav. PE come into play here? It has to have something to do with the black hole.

Really appreciate your help, but I'm still not following.

BD

 

[BadDog]

Here's Hawking's comments which don't make sense to me (and incidentally, his book is amazing - so well written... for a scientist, that is ):

There are something like ten million million million million million million million million million million million million million million (1 with eighty zeroes after it) particles in the region of the universe that we can observe. Where did they all come from? The answer is that, in quantum theory, particles can be created out of energy in the form of particle/antiparticle parts. But that just raises the question of where the energy came from. The answer is that the total energy of the universe is exactly zero. The matter in the universe is made out of positive energy. However, the matter is all attracting itself by gravity. Two pieces of matter that are close to each other have less energy than the same two pieces a long way apart, because you have to expend energy to separate them against the gravitational force that is pulling them together. Thus in a sense, the gravitational field has negative energy. In the case of a universe that is approximately uniform in space, one can show that this negative gravitational energy exactly cancels the positive energy represented by the matter. So the total energy of the universe is zero.

Now twice zero is also zero. Thus the universe can double the amount of positive matter energy and also double the negative gravitational energy without violation of the conservation of energy.

"It is said that there's no such thing as a free lunch. But the universe is the ultimate free lunch."

I don't agree with the bold text above. Two pieces of matter which are close to each other have greater grav. PE (not less) than the same masses farther apart - based on Newton's universal gravitational law. :thud:

The energy he's talking about cannot be gravitational PE. Also, the third law of thermodynamics says that the total energy of the universe is constant, and not zero. (The third law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of a system at absolute zero is a well-defined constant [and not "0"]. Hence "it is impossible by any procedure, no matter how idealized, to reduce any system to the absolute zero of temperature in a finite number of operations.") So how can the total energy be zero, if we are not, and can never be, at absolute zero? ...based upon Newton and thermodynamics.

The mathematical form of the 3rd law is...

S = KB log (omega)

:help:

This has to be based on some quirk of black holes... classical and even relativity physics don't allow for the total energy of the universe to be "0".

Hawking seems to be suggesting the 'zero energy' concept perhaps because it is attractive since it avoids the obvious problem of a universe that sprang from nothing to something. The only way our universe does not require a God to have come into existence is if the total energy is and always has been "0". But it still has issues since we cannot then reconcile where the impetus to initiate the BB came from. Even with a total zero energy, we still need an uncaused cause.

If we have a zero-energy universe, then all one needs is just a tiny bit of energy to get the whole thing started (that is, a tiny volume of energy in which inflation can begin). The universe then experiences inflationary expansion, but without creating net energy. But we still must ask, "What produced the energy before inflation at the initial period of the BB?" That is the real question. All these ideas still require an uncaused cause - cannot get away from that - we keep pushing it back farther and farther into "time" - but it is still there, staring back at us.

Thx,

BD