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Try to prove to me your religion.

Taylor Seraphim

Taylor Seraphim

Angel of Reason
Yoshua said:
Hi Taylor,

Jesus said, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me.

I believed in Him because He is the only Son of God sent by God because of His love for us. He is the one and only who claimed coming from the Father (God ) in heaven.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Why do you believe he is the only son of god?
 
psychoslice

psychoslice

Veteran Member
I myself cannot prove my inner religion, its my own religion, I have experienced something beyond myself, which I call the Source of all, or Consciousness, I don't like the label god, its an ugly word to me.
This experience I had opened my mind up to that which is all, in this experience I felt one with all there is, I cannot put words to it, if I did it would then only be a mere concept, just as most religions teach, no one can prove what is called God, what I call God is all there is, ask a fish what is water, ask me what is the Source, again I cannot say.
 
Yoshua

Yoshua

Well-Known Member
Taylor Seraphim said:
So if it cannot be proven then why believe it in a literal sense?
Click to expand...
Hi Taylor,

It can be proven in historical records. The Bible is the recommended evidence that we can get from the writings, narration and witnesses. Secular witnesses has also records about the existence of Jesus Christ.

Thanks
 
psychoslice

psychoslice

Veteran Member
I really believe that if anyone truly believes that they have the truth, that they are only lying to themselves, for anyone who has a brain would know that to believe in something that is only based on belief or blind faith, cannot ever be true, its just simply pure intelligence, nothing more than that.
 
Chakra

Chakra

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Taylor Seraphim said:
I would have to disagree with karma I have know pople who have been good but lived miserable lives until their death.
Click to expand...
I don't think this bit of information I am going to give you will help you in anyway, but it may be interesting to know. :)

The common idea of karma in the west is that Good actions=Good life, and Bad actions=Bad life. Well, that's not what karma is, at least the Vedantic view of it.

The idea is that the soul (I know you don't believe in it, but just follow the logic for now) has been in existence since the beginning of time (or the universe, or the multiverse, whatever) and we have always been doing actions (karma). Now, if you did bad karma in the past, then your "bank account" of bad karma will stock up, and same thing for the good karma. So, essentially you have two bank accounts of karma, one good and the other bad. I should also point out that the idea that one good karma offsets a bad karma is not the traditional view...they are separate and you have to experience the effects of both.

Now, getting to your point about the miserable lives. There is another misunderstanding that karma=predestination (meaning Good actions=good life). Vedantic philosophy believes that the world is random and therefore there is no predestination based on your actions. If you get a bad grade on an exam, that does not mean that you are suffering the bad action that you did when you were very young. You just *happened* to get a bad grade; your previous actions when you were younger did not cause you to get a bad grade. Also, whenever you experience a negative effect, your "bank account" of bad karma goes down, and if you experience a positive effect, your "bank account" of good karma goes down too. Even the most noblest of all people have to experience the effects of their negative karma. The goal is to get rid of the merry-go-round cycle altogether and diminish the effects of your karma to 0, after which you attain "nirvana".

A better example (and probably more well known) is the plane crash example. If you have 100 passengers that died due to a plane crash, from a karmic perspective, does that mean that they all did the same bad karma when they were younger? Well, no. The plane *simply happened* to crash; karma did not play a role. Even if the passengers were all serial killers and rapists, their karma would still not cause the plane to crash (bad action does not equal bad reaction). Of course, since the passengers did experience a grisly death, their amount of bad karma would drop.

Similarly, if we go by the western idea of karma (Good actions=Good reactions), that would lead to the ridiculous idea that death is an equivalent reaction to smoking! So, to conclude, your friends were certainly good people who simply happened to experience terrible lives. Their amount of bad karma did decrease as a result.

By the way, I am not trying to prove karma, God, soul etc to you. I just figured that you were open-minded enough to learn about a huge misunderstanding of a concept. :)

Good luck.
 
Taylor Seraphim

Taylor Seraphim

Angel of Reason
Chakra said:
I don't think this bit of information I am going to give you will help you in anyway, but it may be interesting to know. :)

The common idea of karma in the west is that Good actions=Good life, and Bad actions=Bad life. Well, that's not what karma is, at least the Vedantic view of it.

The idea is that the soul (I know you don't believe in it, but just follow the logic for now) has been in existence since the beginning of time (or the universe, or the multiverse, whatever) and we have always been doing actions (karma). Now, if you did bad karma in the past, then your "bank account" of bad karma will stock up, and same thing for the good karma. So, essentially you have two bank accounts of karma, one good and the other bad. I should also point out that the idea that one good karma offsets a bad karma is not the traditional view...they are separate and you have to experience the effects of both.

Now, getting to your point about the miserable lives. There is another misunderstanding that karma=predestination (meaning Good actions=good life). Vedantic philosophy believes that the world is random and therefore there is no predestination based on your actions. If you get a bad grade on an exam, that does not mean that you are suffering the bad action that you did when you were very young. You just *happened* to get a bad grade; your previous actions when you were younger did not cause you to get a bad grade. Also, whenever you experience a negative effect, your "bank account" of bad karma goes down, and if you experience a positive effect, your "bank account" of good karma goes down too. Even the most noblest of all people have to experience the effects of their negative karma. The goal is to get rid of the merry-go-round cycle altogether and diminish the effects of your karma to 0, after which you attain "nirvana".

A better example (and probably more well known) is the plane crash example. If you have 100 passengers that died due to a plane crash, from a karmic perspective, does that mean that they all did the same bad karma when they were younger? Well, no. The plane *simply happened* to crash; karma did not play a role. Even if the passengers were all serial killers and rapists, their karma would still not cause the plane to crash (bad action does not equal bad reaction). Of course, since the passengers did experience a grisly death, their amount of bad karma would drop.

Similarly, if we go by the western idea of karma (Good actions=Good reactions), that would lead to the ridiculous idea that death is an equivalent reaction to smoking! So, to conclude, your friends were certainly good people who simply happened to experience terrible lives. Their amount of bad karma did decrease as a result.

By the way, I am not trying to prove karma, God, soul etc to you. I just figured that you were open-minded enough to learn about a huge misunderstanding of a concept. :)

Good luck.
Click to expand...

So someone would be held responsible for something they do not even remember doing in a life where they where vastly different.

Not only is that messed up it is not observable so there is no reason to believe it.
 
Chakra

Chakra

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Taylor Seraphim said:
So someone would be held responsible for something they do not even remember doing in a life where they where vastly different.

Not only is that messed up it is not observable so there is no reason to believe it.
Click to expand...
If you remember what I stated earlier, their previous actions do not affect them in anyway. There is no one "held responsible", unless you can tell me how that is the case using the explanation I provided.
 
Jonathan Ainsley Bain

Jonathan Ainsley Bain

Logical Positivist
Taylor Seraphim said:
Please try to prove to me your religion is true.
Click to expand...

First read this page
www.flight-light-and-spin.com/relativity-revised.htm

then this one
http://www.flight-light-and-spin.com/relativity-revised-summary.htm

then finally this one
http://www.flight-light-and-spin.com/dream.htm

But if you have already accepted my proof for
revising Einstein's relativity, then all you need to do is read the 3rd link.

If you want a very brief summary of my proof,
perhaps start here:
http://www.flight-light-and-spin.com/time-dilation.gif

(It would be a good idea to print this last bit out and read it carefully
and slowly away from the computer and all its distractions)
 
Taylor Seraphim

Taylor Seraphim

Angel of Reason
Chakra said:
If you remember what I stated earlier, their previous actions do not affect them in anyway. There is no one "held responsible", unless you can tell me how that is the case using the explanation I provided.
Click to expand...

Show me proof that karma exists please.
 
Taylor Seraphim

Taylor Seraphim

Angel of Reason
Jonathan Ainsley Bain said:
First read this page
www.flight-light-and-spin.com/relativity-revised.htm

then this one
http://www.flight-light-and-spin.com/relativity-revised-summary.htm

then finally this one
http://www.flight-light-and-spin.com/dream.htm

But if you have already accepted my proof for
revising Einstein's relativity, then all you need to do is read the 3rd link.

If you want a very brief summary of my proof,
perhaps start here:
http://www.flight-light-and-spin.com/time-dilation.gif

(It would be a good idea to print this last bit out and read it carefully
and slowly away from the computer and all its distractions)
Click to expand...

You really need to learn how the scientific works before trying to throw pusdeo-science in my face and calling it science.

Frankly this is insulting, you are assuming I am a naïve moron to believe this.
 
Yoshua

Yoshua

Well-Known Member
psychoslice said:
I really believe that if anyone truly believes that they have the truth, that they are only lying to themselves, for anyone who has a brain would know that to believe in something that is only based on belief or blind faith, cannot ever be true, its just simply pure intelligence, nothing more than that.
Click to expand...
Hi psycho,

This is what religious faith is. You may have your faith that Jesus is not the truth, but for me I believed He is the truth and God-sent. It has nothing to do with lying because of you views are different from others. Just an example of what you are believing is your truth, if not you are also considered lying.

No human being has the truth unless the truth that he embraced and acknowledged is the truth, the real truth that a Son of God exists. It is not a blind faith because nobody claimed He is the way to the Father, the truth and the giver of life eternal just as Christ did. If it is pure intelligence, how could you explain a notorious killer changed his life in Jesus? From darkness to light, from filthy rugs to clean white rugs. It is the power of the Holy Spirit as God promised.

Thanks
 
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