Tucson Police Chief offers to resign over police killing kept secret for two months

[Stevicus]

Tucson in-custody death of Carlos Adrian Ingram Lopez: What we know

TPD chief offers to resign as details revealed about Ingram-Lopez death in police custody

Magnus: We screwed up but it did it exactly right | What the Devil won't tell you

They were trying to cover it up, but it got reported, and then they had to face the music.

Three Tucson police officers have resigned and Chief Chris Magnus has offered his resignation Wednesday after the April in-custody death of Carlos Adrian Ingram Lopez came to light.

Here's what we know about the case:

What happened?
The grandmother of Ingram Lopez, 27, called police shortly after 1 a.m. on April 22 because her grandson was "drunk, yelling and running around the house naked," Magnus said during a media briefing Wednesday.

Magnus noted that Ingram Lopez committed domestic violence against a significant other and disorderly conduct involving his family two days before. It's not clear whether Ingram Lopez was charged in this case.

Ingram Lopez ran from the house and into an enclosed garage when officers arrived at the scene, Magnus said. The officers ordered Ingram Lopez to the floor, handcuffed him behind his back and placed him face-down.

The video is rather graphic and disturbing; I couldn't really get through it myself. The second link above describes the scene in great detail.

I think the big question on everyone's mind is, why was the video withheld? Why was this incident covered up and whitewashed? The lack of transparency and the secretive culture of police departments seem to be underlying problems.

A lot of people are trying to pass off the notion that these incidents are merely the result of "a few bad apples" and say similar to what the police chief said in his statement:

Magnus defended the rest of his department in the written statement put out late Tuesday. "The vast, vast majority of our officers do their jobs well and responsibly and are rightfully disturbed and dismayed by any statements to the contrary. I continue to have the utmost confidence in the men and women of our police department," he said.

This is all well and good, but without real transparency, these are just empty words. If they refuse to lift the curtain and show the public what's really going on, then how can anyone know? How can anyone trust the police if they refuse to release information in a timely manner?

My suggestion would be to require that all body cam and other police video footage be immediately uploaded in real time to a public server, where it can be accessed by the public on demand. Just as people can access police scanners, they would be able to access any police footage from anywhere. There's no reason the police should have a problem with that, unless they're lying when they say the "vast, vast majority" are good and that it's just "a few bad apples" who cause the problems.

Their lack of transparency is prima facie evidence of prevarication.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Tucson in-custody death of Carlos Adrian Ingram Lopez: What we know

TPD chief offers to resign as details revealed about Ingram-Lopez death in police custody

Magnus: We screwed up but it did it exactly right | What the Devil won't tell you

They were trying to cover it up, but it got reported, and then they had to face the music.



The video is rather graphic and disturbing; I couldn't really get through it myself. The second link above describes the scene in great detail.

I think the big question on everyone's mind is, why was the video withheld? Why was this incident covered up and whitewashed? The lack of transparency and the secretive culture of police departments seem to be underlying problems.

A lot of people are trying to pass off the notion that these incidents are merely the result of "a few bad apples" and say similar to what the police chief said in his statement:



This is all well and good, but without real transparency, these are just empty words. If they refuse to lift the curtain and show the public what's really going on, then how can anyone know? How can anyone trust the police if they refuse to release information in a timely manner?

My suggestion would be to require that all body cam and other police video footage be immediately uploaded in real time to a public server, where it can be accessed by the public on demand. Just as people can access police scanners, they would be able to access any police footage from anywhere. There's no reason the police should have a problem with that, unless they're lying when they say the "vast, vast majority" are good and that it's just "a few bad apples" who cause the problems.

Their lack of transparency is prima facie evidence of prevarication.

Yeah, I'm not too sure about the 'real time to the public'.
Lots of issues of privacy with that, and not just for the police.

But an independent oversite body having real time access makes some sense to me.

 

[Quetzal]

I voted 'Yes' in your poll. The police community has lost the trust of the communities they were trusted to help protect. Every day we see new examples of police brutality and murder, even after all of this began. Accountability needs to start somewhere and I think this is a perfectly reasonable ask, all things considered.

 

[Revoltingest]

I voted 'Yes' in your poll. The police community has lost the trust of the communities they were trusted to help protect. Every day we see new examples of police brutality and murder, even after all of this began. Accountability needs to start somewhere and I think this is a perfectly reasonable ask, all things considered.

I find it interesting how cop & court thuggery have been going on a long
time, but only now do the media & the public take such a keen interest.
Perhaps there'll finally be some positive change.

 

[Stevicus]

Yeah, I'm not too sure about the 'real time to the public'.
Lots of issues of privacy with that, and not just for the police.

But an independent oversite body having real time access makes some sense to me.

Yes, that is a good point, although an independent oversight agency having access would also be good.

I also wonder about the wisdom of sending the police out on these kinds of calls. From the description, this appeared to be something that might have been better handled by a mental health crisis team. Apparently, this guy was high on cocaine and running around naked and acting crazy.

 

[Quetzal]

I find it interesting how cop & court thuggery have been going on a long
time, but only now do the media & the public take such a keen interest.
Perhaps there'll finally be some positive change.

I think cell phones have certainly helped. Everyone has the ability to record events in real-time, which is helpful because it becomes more difficult to deny allegations. What I find troubling is that we are still seeing such displays even though the officers know they are being recorded.

 

[Stevicus]

I find it interesting how cop & court thuggery have been going on a long
time, but only now do the media & the public take such a keen interest.
Perhaps there'll finally be some positive change.

We can only hope, but part of the problem in the past is that the public can become easily distracted, confused, or manipulated into thinking that the powers that be are fixing the problem, but nothing ever really changes in the long run.

 

[Shaul]

This very thread is one example of why police could hesitant about releasing videos. This wasn’t a “police killing” as the thread title says. It was a death that occurred while the man was in custody. Those are very different things. The rampant hostility of certain segments of society against the police is terrible and counterproductive.

There are many sound reasons why police cam recordings should NOT be immediately released. Chief among these reasons is that their immediate release could endanger innocent members of the public such as key witnesses and to prevent criminals from escaping justice by destroying evidence or fleeing.

 

[Stevicus]

I think cell phones have certainly helped. Everyone has the ability to record events in real-time, which is helpful because it becomes more difficult to deny allegations. What I find troubling is that we are still seeing such displays even though the officers know they are being recorded.

Kind of makes one wonder what they were doing when there were no cameras.

I saw another video recently about a police officer getting caught on video trying to plant crack cocaine on a suspect. The officer got angry and started chasing the person taking the video. That, to me, is a big giveaway and reveals much about the mentality of the police, when they get angry at being videotaped and trying to stop people from doing that.

 

[Quetzal]

Kind of makes one wonder what they were doing when there were no cameras.

I saw another video recently about a police officer getting caught on video trying to plant crack cocaine on a suspect. The officer got angry and started chasing the person taking the video. That, to me, is a big giveaway and reveals much about the mentality of the police, when they get angry at being videotaped and trying to stop people from doing that.

I saw that one as well. How scary is that? You could go down for something you didn't do because a law enforcement officer doesn't like you.

 

[Stevicus]

This very thread is one example of why police could hesitant about releasing videos. This wasn’t a “police killing” as the thread title says. It was a death that occurred while the man was in custody. Those are very different things.

They could have handled it differently. They killed the guy. Now, maybe they didn't mean to, maybe that was not their intention. But the guy still ended up dead, and they caused his death. Therefore, "police killing" seems appropriate.

The rampant hostility of certain segments of society against the police is terrible and counterproductive.

The "hostility" is necessary to safeguard the liberty of citizens in a free society. There's more than enough hostility to go around, in politics, in the media, on the streets, but instead of going around willy-nilly and randomly, we should direct and channel that hostility towards where it needs to be.

There has been a lot of talk about double standards, but I think the police should be held to the same standards as anyone else. No one is above the law.

At best, they are government officials - just like any bureaucrat or politician, and nobody has yet been bothered by criticism of bureaucrats or politicians. In fact, that seems a national pastime to trash politicians, bureaucrats, and lawyers (and they should be trashed). Nobody seems to think that it's "terrible and counterproductive" that this happens.

But somehow, many people seem to think that the police should be treated differently, as if they're somehow "above politics" or something like that. That's an attitude I find quite mystifying.

There are many sound reasons why police cam recordings should NOT be immediately released. Chief among these reasons is that their immediate release could endanger innocent members of the public such as key witnesses and to prevent criminals from escaping justice by destroying evidence or fleeing.

That doesn't appear to be the case here. They were just covering up.

 

[BSM1]

I voted 'Yes' in your poll. The police community has lost the trust of the communities they were trusted to help protect. Every day we see new examples of police brutality and murder, even after all of this began. Accountability needs to start somewhere and I think this is a perfectly reasonable ask, all things considered.

Suppose you were in a video pointing out a perpetrator to a police officer? Not sure you would want that made public. Slippery slope, Kemo Sabe...

 

[Windwalker]

My suggestion would be to require that all body cam and other police video footage be immediately uploaded in real time to a public server, where it can be accessed by the public on demand. Just as people can access police scanners, they would be able to access any police footage from anywhere. There's no reason the police should have a problem with that, unless they're lying when they say the "vast, vast majority" are good and that it's just "a few bad apples" who cause the problems.

That is a recipe for invading the rights of public citizens. How would you like having a video of you explaining to the cops confronting you over something, most likely in a compromised situation? Just the fact that the cops were questioning you, and all your friends and enemies could see you in that situation, that is something that could easily be used to tarnish your name. "Why were the cops even talking to John Smith about a domestic disturbance call? We better not hire him,"

You see the point? The court of public opinion, is not the place for fair judgments. Why should they see something at all, if no actual charges were filed? People would abuse that to no end.

The best solution is this. All investigations of police misconduct must be done, not by the police themselves, but an independent agency that is controlled by the State, not the local PD. They would be the ones to review the body cameras.

 

[Quetzal]

Suppose you were in a video pointing out a perpetrator to a police officer? Not sure you would want that made public. Slippery slope, Kemo Sabe...

Hey BSM, good to see ya.

You know, that actually is a good point. I was viewing it through the lens of the bad examples we are seeing. But I can see your perspective. Perhaps I may have a bad run-in with the police one day, would I want my arrest video made public to my family, friends... employer? Hmm, this is a good thing to think about.

 

[sun rise]

The lack of transparency and the secretive culture of police departments seem to be underlying problems.

Yes.

But an independent oversite body having real time access makes some sense to me.

I agree.

I find it interesting how cop & court thuggery have been going on a long
time, but only now do the media & the public take such a keen interest.
Perhaps there'll finally be some positive change.

I did not understand or accept it at the time, but now I fully understand why the Black Panther Party members called cops "pigs". It's only in this era of body cameras, cellphones etc that the truth is coming out.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I did not understand or accept it at the time, but now I fully understand why the Black Panther Party members called cops "pigs". It's only in this era of body cameras, cellphones etc that the truth is coming out.

This is the first time in our history that we have the capability to police the police. Cell phone cameras and surveillance has now introduced a way we can maintain a proper checks and balances.

The police need to watch us for sure, but we also need to watch them, and this is the perfect way to go about it.

I'll be awful leery about any politician that proposes making it illegal to photograph or observe the police with surveillance technology because what that tells me, is that they have something seriously to hide.

Surveillance technology is here to stay, and the police know they are being watched now by people making sure that they don't step over the line.

 

[Twilight Hue]

.......

You know, that actually is a good point. I was viewing it through the lens of the bad examples we are seeing. But I can see your perspective. Perhaps I may have a bad run-in with the police one day, would I want my arrest video made public to my family, friends... employer? Hmm, this is a good thing to think about.

I suppose if you were flat-out drunk, stoned, or whatever and acting like an imbecile with the police, it might be a bit embarrassing to say the least.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Yeah, I'm not too sure about the 'real time to the public'.
Lots of issues of privacy with that, and not just for the police.

But an independent oversite body having real time access makes some sense to me.

I would be okay for a time period of secrecy only because of legalities as it may affect pending and active court cases, but after the conviction and sentencing, those videos should be declassified and released to the public.

 

[Revoltingest]

I did not understand or accept it at the time, but now I fully understand why the Black Panther Party members called cops "pigs". It's only in this era of body cameras, cellphones etc that the truth is coming out.

Even back then the info about abusive cops was known.
It just wasn't so prominent in the news.

 

[Stevicus]

That is a recipe for invading the rights of public citizens. How would you like having a video of you explaining to the cops confronting you over something, most likely in a compromised situation? Just the fact that the cops were questioning you, and all your friends and enemies could see you in that situation, that is something that could easily be used to tarnish your name. "Why were the cops even talking to John Smith about a domestic disturbance call? We better not hire him,"

You see the point? The court of public opinion, is not the place for fair judgments. Why should they see something at all, if no actual charges were filed? People would abuse that to no end.

The best solution is this. All investigations of police misconduct must be done, not by the police themselves, but an independent agency that is controlled by the State, not the local PD. They would be the ones to review the body cameras.

I can understand your concern about privacy, so perhaps they can put in some safeguards to protect the innocent (which was one of the poll options). There's technology to blur out faces, such as the kind they use for Google Maps street view. But realistically, pretty much anyone can expect that they're under surveillance the moment they exit their own domicile. There are traffic cameras, street cameras, surveillance in stores, etc. There's no real privacy online either. There's clearly a lot of people watching others, but who watches the watchers?

There may be a bit of a trade-off. Is it worth it to risk a little privacy in order to ensure that the police will behave ethically, responsibly, appropriate to the situation, and with scrupulous regard for the Constitutional rights of American citizens?