Two Kinds of Salvation

[Ben Avraham]

Two Kinds of Salvation.

1. Personal salvation and;

2. Universal salvation.

Only universal salvation is free; personal salvation is as expensive as the kind of transgression committed against the Law.

Universal salvation is the one promised to Noah through the Noahide Covenant which the Lord established with all Mankind. Soon after the Flood, the Lord promised Noah never to allow another catastrophe the size of the Flood as all living beings, except for Noah's family, had suffered universal destruction. What about if Mankind turned again as evil as at the time of Noah? The Lord had to raise a new people from the loins of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as the pledge or assurance to His promise of universal salvation for Mankind. Israel had risen. Now, as long as Israel remained as a People before the Lord forever, the earth would remain seed-time and harvest and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night would not cease. In other words, as long as the natural laws functioned properly, Mankind was saved; freely saved. (Gen. 8:21,22)

Prophet Jeremiah must have read the above text and connected the Lord's pledge with the permanence of Israel as a People before the Lord forever as long as the natural laws functioned properly, thus, Israel would guarantee the Lord's promise of universal salvation of Mankind. (Jeremiah 31:35-37)

Reading the Christian NT the other day, I came about John 4:22 and I was reminded that Jesus must have read both texts above; the one of Genesis and that of Jeremiah and concluded that indeed salvation comes from the Jews. From the Jews, he said, and not from one among the Jews.

Now, for personal salvation, the bill would have to be paid according to the transgression of the Law; the law of cause and effect; some times as expensive as the loss of life itself. This kind of salvation is so serious that, as Jesus himself said, if we come to the Temple to plead for salvation and we are reminded that some one has an issue with us, we must leave all behind and go set things right with our neighbor and only then return to the altar to plead for salvation. (Mat. 5:23,24)

 

[wizanda]

Soon after the Flood, the Lord promised Noah never to allow another catastrophe the size of the Flood as all living beings, except for Noah's family, had suffered universal destruction.

Isaiah 54:9-10 “For this is like the waters of Noah to me; for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah will no more go over the earth, so I have sworn that I will not be angry with you, nor rebuke you. (10) For the mountains may depart, and the hills be removed; but my loving kindness will not depart from you, and my covenant of peace will not be removed,” says Yahweh who has mercy on you.

The mountains being removed, and hills removed is in reference to the great day of the lord (Zechariah 14:14, etc); where the Lord shall come with fire, and cleanse the whole of mankind of all iniquity.

So not sure about it being universal salvation for anyone, only through people's righteousness are they saved indervidually...

Ezekiel 14:14 though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they would deliver only their own souls by their righteousness,” says the Lord Yahweh.

concluded that indeed salvation comes from the Jews.

The gospel of John is made up, and its Pharisee authors made up that stupid line.

Israel would guarantee the Lord's promise of universal salvation of Mankind.

Jeremiah 31 is about the new covenant, where no longer shall the nation of Israel be a nation or a people if they'd broke the laws again....That doesn't confirm an everlasting universal salvation because of Israel, instead the complete opposite.

personal salvation is as expensive as the kind of transgression committed against the Law.

Personal salvation is free, as Yeshua said there was nothing to pay (Luke 7:40-42).... The debit is with God, and God can forgive all in an instant (Isaiah 6:7).

 

[Ben Avraham]

Isaiah 54:9-10 “For this is like the waters of Noah to me; for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah will no more go over the earth, so I have sworn that I will not be angry with you, nor rebuke you. (10) For the mountains may depart, and the hills be removed; but my loving kindness will not depart from you, and my covenant of peace will not be removed,” says Yahweh who has mercy on you.

The mountains being removed, and hills removed is in reference to the great day of the lord (Zechariah 14:14, etc); where the Lord shall come with fire, and cleanse the whole of mankind of all iniquity.

So not sure about it being universal salvation for anyone, only through people's righteousness are they saved indervidually...

Ezekiel 14:14 though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they would deliver only their own souls by their righteousness,” says the Lord Yahweh.

The gospel of John is made up, and its Pharisee authors made up that stupid line.

Jeremiah 31 is about the new covenant, where no longer shall the nation of Israel be a nation or a people if they'd broke the laws again....That doesn't confirm an everlasting universal salvation because of Israel, instead the complete opposite.

Personal salvation is free, as Yeshua said there was nothing to pay (Luke 7:40-42).... The debit is with God, and God can forgive all in an instant (Isaiah 6:7).

The removal of hills or mountains is a reference to powers-that-be aka fall of governments. That's personal salvation. So, individually one is saved only through obedience of God's Law. The Pharisees could never be the authors of a NT gospel. The gospel pf John was written by a Hellenist, former disciple of Paul.

The New Covenant was made with the House of Israel and the House of Judah. It has nothing to do with universal salvation. And last but not least, personal salvation is not free. The debt is with the Law. We obey it, we have nothing to pay. We break it, we have to suffer the consequences of our own wrong doings.

 

[wizanda]

The removal of hills or mountains is a reference to powers-that-be

I posted you an exact verse using the same keywords, and you just create what ever ideology you want.

The Pharisees could never be the authors of a NT gospel.

The gospel of John has many conversations that took place between closed doors of the Sanhedrin, it includes their conversations word for word....

So the only people who could've recorded what we find within the gospel of John is a high ranking Pharisee, most likely Nicodemus.

The gospel of John is to put Jews off accepting Yeshua; whilst fitting with 1st century expectations of the Messiah.

So, individually one is saved only through obedience of God's Law.

The Law is only a guide to righteous acts, it isn't righteousness, which is the only qualifying factor to being saved (worthy of being in Heaven).

Obedience of God's Laws in a physical book, makes you worthy of being in life, not Heaven....

To be worthy of Heaven, there are higher principles of God's Law, which contain unconditional love and wisdom.

The New Covenant was made with the House of Israel and the House of Judah.

When with scriptures please, wasn't aware of it?

 

[Ben Avraham]

I posted you an exact verse using the same keywords, and you just create what ever ideology you want.

The gospel of John has many conversations that took place between closed doors of the Sanhedrin, it includes their conversations word for word....

So the only people who could've recorded what we find within the gospel of John is a high ranking Pharisee, most likely Nicodemus.

The gospel of John is to put Jews off accepting Yeshua; whilst fitting with 1st century expectations of the Messiah.

The Law is only a guide to righteous acts, it isn't righteousness, which is the only qualifying factor to being saved (worthy of being in Heaven).

Obedience of God's Laws in a physical book, makes you worthy of being in life, not Heaven....

To be worthy of Heaven, there are higher principles of God's Law, which contain unconditional love and wisdom.

When with scriptures please, wasn't aware of it?

Jesus could have never been the Messiah first and foremost because the Messiah cannot be an individual. The individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we to expect a new Messiah in every generation? Obviously not! The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a people before the Lord forever. (Jeremiah 31:35-37) Then, if you read Prophet Habakkuk 3:13, "The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One. " That's what Messiah is, the Anointed One of the Lord aka Israel the Son of God. (Exodus 4:22,23) Besides, even if an individual could be the Messiah, Jesus could still not be that individual because he had to be from the Tribe of Judah and, to be from the Tribe of Judah, he had to be a biological son of Joseph who was the one from the Tribe of Judah. But because you guys want to bake your cake and eat it too, Jesus ended up by being neither the Messiah nor the son of God.

 

[wizanda]

Jesus could have never been the Messiah first and foremost because the Messiah cannot be an individual.

How is that in context of what we're talking about?

Yeshua wasn't the Messiah two thousand years ago, we're not in the Messianic age....

If you bring Christian ideology to the discussion with me, you'll only end up confused; i don't accept John, Paul and Simon the stone (petros), as being valid, though they're useful to understand where Christian teachings come from.

I see those 3 as opposed to Yeshua's teachings in the synoptic gospels, and having created Christianity's 'jesus'.

The individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we to expect a new Messiah in every generation?

Do you understand the expectations of the Messianic age? There shall no longer be death? The Messiah shall reign over this specific period of time?

 

[Ben Avraham]

How is that in context of what we're talking about?

Yeshua wasn't the Messiah two thousand years ago, we're not in the Messianic age....

If you bring Christian ideology to the discussion with me, you'll only end up confused; i don't accept John, Paul and Simon the stone (petros), as being valid, though they're useful to understand where Christian teachings come from.

I see those 3 as opposed to Yeshua's teachings in the synoptic gospels, and having created Christianity's 'jesus'.

Do you understand the expectations of the Messianic age? There shall no longer be death? The Messiah shall reign over this specific period of time?

Since 1948 we have been in the Messianic age. That's when the 3rd Jewish Commonwealth was proclaimed and organized. This time was foretold by Ezekiel in 37:22. Now, the cessation of death can never happen. As long as there is birth, death is a must. Therefore, the ceasing of death could never be part of the expectations of the Messianic age.

 

[Reggie Miller]

Salvation is the result of faith in God before Christ and faith in Christ after Christ. There is no other kind of salvation.

 

[Ben Avraham]

Salvation is the result of faith in God before Christ and faith in Christ after Christ. There is no other kind of salvation.

This little post of yours above sounds like a riddle. You don't have to go that way. Jesus himself made it quite clear that the only way to achieve salvation is by listening to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31) As you can see, I hope, this way it makes much more sense and there is no need of riddles.

 

[Reggie Miller]

This little post of yours above sounds like a riddle. You don't have to go that way. Jesus himself made it quite clear that the only way to achieve salvation is by listening to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31) As you can see, I hope, this way it makes much more sense and there is no need of riddles.

Sir, you've been quite deceived. I will pray for you.

 

[Ben Avraham]

Isaiah 54:9-10 “For this is like the waters of Noah to me; for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah will no more go over the earth, so I have sworn that I will not be angry with you, nor rebuke you. (10) For the mountains may depart, and the hills be removed; but my loving kindness will not depart from you, and my covenant of peace will not be removed,” says Yahweh who has mercy on you.

"For this is LIKE the waters of Noah to Me." For this is like what I guaranteed to Noah. This what? The Divine guarantee that the Lord would never refuse His favors to Judah. Not of all Israel because the Lord had rejected Israel for good but Judah, HaShem confirmed it to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Psalm 78:67-70)

The mountains being removed, and hills removed is in reference to the great day of the lord (Zechariah 14:14, etc); where the Lord shall come with fire, and cleanse the whole of mankind of all iniquity.

No, that's in reference rather to the removal of all other nations but never of Judah aka the new Israel. (Jeremiah 46:28)

So not sure about it being universal salvation for anyone, only through people's righteousness are they saved individually...

No, that's not universal salvation. BTW universal salvation is not for the Jews but for the rest of Mankind. The Jews or, at least a Minyan of 10 righteous adult Jews constitutes only the token of guarantee for universal salvation.

Ezekiel 14:14 though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they would deliver only their own souls by their righteousness,” says the Lord Yahweh.

The expression "Noah, Daniel and Job" was only a proverb in prophetic language to guarantee the Word of God.

The gospel of John is made up, and its Pharisee authors made up that stupid line.

The Pharisee authors! The Pharisees would never come close to touch a page of the NT if it existed at their time. I see this grudge against the Pharisees as an act of Jewish jealousy.

Jeremiah 31 is about the new covenant, where no longer shall the nation of Israel be a nation or a people if they'd broke the laws again....That doesn't confirm an everlasting universal salvation because of Israel, instead the complete opposite.

Whether they broke the Law again or not, their doom to no longer be a nation again was final. (Psalm 78:67-70)

Personal salvation is free, as Yeshua said there was nothing to pay (Luke 7:40-42).... The debit is with God, and God can forgive all in an instant (Isaiah 6:7).

Personal salvation is absolutely not free. For the Lord to take upon Himself the debt of our transgressions, He must first revoke our attribute of Freewill and, this He would never do because I am almost sure that He did not create us to act as robots. To achieve personal salvation, we have to do our part which, as Jesus himself said, by listening to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31)