UC Professor. No evidence in the Bible attributing Satan as being evil.

[Grandliseur]

I think it's a false dilemma. I can think of many other options, from deistic options (god is omnipotent but doesnt care about the affairs of mortals), God isn't omnipotent at all but just a powerful but flawed being, God is omnipotent but the bible is not a true account of his actions (like a documentary of a true person seasoned heavily with fiction). But that's another thread for another time.
Obviously I don't believe a god or gods exists, my outlook is not too dissimilar from your option one since I don't believe in an afterlife. And I don't find death scary so...
In your second scenario, I'm not an authoritarian. I don't believe might makes right. Torture would be a drag but I wouldn't fear sticking to my principals rather than kowtowing to an evil being. I won't be frightened into subservience.

God is totally fair and impartial. His laws are for the sake of benefiting ourselves. However, some people make him their enemy for no reason. As I said, he is totally impartial, and if you do something deserving of punishment of reward, you'll get it. But doing something that makes him your enemy also is dealt with, just like a watch ticking off the seconds. This was the subject that you responded to. As I had mentioned in that post probably, even satan and the angels tremble when they think of the punishment that is due and unavoidable. But, why would anyone want to unnecessarily make anyone as powerful as God their enemy. That makes no sense to me.

 

[LionLooking]

...why would anyone want to unnecessarily make anyone as powerful as God their enemy. That makes no sense to me.

If a very powerful figure is behaving in a horrendous, unjust and terrible way then I hope I would stand up to them.
Why would anyone want to make Hitler (sorry - obvious example used too often) their enemy? He was unjust, horrendous and terrible wasn't he - and very powerful?

 

[1137]

[QUOTE="Enoch07, post: 5453034, member:]

But the Bible clearly says he is evil.[/QUOTE]

That alone is enough for me to conclude he probably isn't.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

If this professor is working for a public university then he is getting paid with public money and should not be spending time on religious matters. Where are all the protesters about separation of church and state.? He is clearly expressing a religious opinion while representing a government institution. Not acceptable.

 

[Truthseeker]

Isn't John 8:44 a lie itself?

Where in the Bible has Satan actually lied or murdered anybody?

I believe that Satan is the lower part of ourselves, so Satan in the Bible lied and murdered whenever a character in the Bible murdered or lied.

 

[Truthseeker]

I think each of us is responsible for our own acts of evil, People behave badly but people are not inherently evil.

I agree.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

God is totally fair and impartial. His laws are for the sake of benefiting ourselves.

Repeating this won't make it more convincing. I look at the bible and I see egotism, anger, homophobia, sexism, racism and injustice. I do not see fairness and impartiality, I do not see justified rules.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Since you pride yourself on logic. If you consider God a murderer then you must also consider any woman who had an abortion a murderer. Since when did you become pro-life?

So... no actual answer to God's "body count" then? Just a jab at the poster's "supposed" stance on abortion? Got it.

 

[Shaul]

This Professor’s position is in harmony with the Jewish scriptures. It contradicts the Christian “New Testament”. But that begs the question of whether they are trustworthy or truth.

According to the Jewish scriptures Satan is an obedient angel that serves G-d by testing humans. Satan is not evil. Although he can reflect and use our own evil inclinations against us.

Here is a good primary on how Judaism views Satan. https://outreachjudaism.org/who-is-satan/

 

[1213]

Unbelievers judge such stories differently. As with the story of the fall of man at the hands of the serpent, most of us find the deity responsible. With omniscience and omnipotence comes omni-responsibility.

It is sad, if most people push own responsibility to others.

If you let a serpent deceive babes, it's on you.

So, you think it was bad that God gave freedom?

If you let Satan torture Job, it's on you.

In the story, God compensates everything, even though all the evil acts came from Satan.

If you build a torture pit, stock it with the demons you created, and dump souls that you gratuitously kept conscious into it just to torture them to the benefit of no one but sadists, then you are source of evil, not your creations.

Maybe, maybe, luckily that is not what the Bible tells.

On basis of the Bible, hell is a place where soul and body are destroyed.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt. 10:28

 

[1213]

God gave the order, ….

I don’t think that is said in the Bible.

Wonder why Jesus was executed if he wasn't evil. His torture and death prove his sin, right?

I don’t think that all people who are tortured and murdered get that because of sin or because they are evil. Do you really think that all who are murdered, are murdered because they are evil and sin?

 

[Ingledsva]

UCLA research professor Henry A Kelly
after a 40 year study.

2006 University article.........

What the Devil? Prince of Darkness Is Misunderstood, Says UCLA Author of New Satan ‘Biography’

Satan is not actually evil and is misunderstood.

When a person thinks about it, there's really not any evidence in the Bible that indicates Satan as actually being evil.

Thoughts or comments?

He is correct. I have been saying that here for years.

Any of our Jewish members can tell you that.

Satan - LATER - gets mixed with foreign gods and gets changed into an evil being.

In Tanakh he is a servant of YHVH, just doing his job.

According to Tanakh Satan tests, - and if someone is found wanting, - condemns them before YHVH. YHVH's prosecuting attorney.

Zec 3:1 And he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of YHVH, and Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him.


Psa 109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand. Psa 109:7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin.

Job 42:10 And YHVH turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also YHVH gave Job twice as much as he had before.

Job 42:11 Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that YHVH had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.

*

 

[Enoch07]

So... no actual answer to God's "body count" then? Just a jab at the poster's "supposed" stance on abortion? Got it.

LoLz

The answer is 0.

Unless you have evidence.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

LoLz

The answer is 0.

Unless you have evidence.

Interesting... I thought all Abrahamic theists believe The Bible IS evidence? Has it suddenly become realized that it really isn't? Oh... what a joyous day! I shall spread the news at once!

 

[Ingledsva]

This Professor must be illiterate or morally bankrupt.

John 8:44 KJV

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Being a murderer and liar count would count as evil. Soz

Later ideas about Satan, - count as squat.

He is not evil in Tanakh.

In Job he follows YHVH's orders. YHVH is thus evil.

*

 

[Father Heathen]

Indeed, putting words in the mouth of God - i.e. prophesying about things he didn't say or such, warranted the death penalty of ancient Israel, and even in Revelation, we are warned not to change what has been given on the pain of death.

However, if putting words in God's mouth warrants the death penalty, so would by logic, also taking words out of his mouth and invalidate them. Some churches are guilty of both. Other people are also guilty of this.

But "Revelation" itself is just another example of some goofy mortal presuming to speak for god.

 

[Ingledsva]

Consider the source. Jesus is speaking in John 8:44.

Now someone can debate what Satan is or is not all day. I've got no problem with that.

But the Bible clearly says he is evil as shown in John 8:44. So this Professor doesn't know what he is talking about as far as the Bible not portraying Satan as evil.

NO, - people were writing that after Jesus' death. Obviously Jesus couldn't do a fact check, and denial.

We do not know what Jesus, if he existed, actually said.

*

 

[Enoch07]

Interesting... I thought all Abrahamic theists believe The Bible IS evidence? Has it suddenly become realized that it really isn't? Oh... what a joyous day! I shall spread the news at once!

Evidence of what?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Evidence of what?

Body count. God's to be precise. Do I need to wave my hand in front of your face and make sure you're looking me in the eye before we continue?

 

[Spice]

According to the Jewish scriptures Satan is an obedient angel that serves G-d by testing humans. Satan is not evil. Although he can reflect and use our own evil inclinations against us.

I've read Satan described by a professor of the New Testament, that happens to be Jewish, as the state's prosecutor. That's certainly compatible with Jesus' promise of speaking in our defense.