Uk is a Christian country?

[9Westy9]

David Cameron has announced today that the UK is Christian country and that we should not be afraid to say it.

He's called for a revival of traditional Christian values to counter Britain's "moral collapse". What traditional values he feels are missing is alien to me but it doesn't sound promising.

He goes on to say "But what I am saying is that the Bible has helped to give Britain a set of values and morals which make Britain what it is today."

At least he seems to acknowledge other faith groups "Let me be clear: I am not in any way saying that to have another faith - or no faith - is somehow wrong."

Hopefully he means that and isn't just trying to get people on side

"Many people tell me it is much easier to be Jewish or Muslim here in Britain than it is in a secular country like France. Why? Because the tolerance that Christianity demands of our society provides greater space for other religious faiths too. And because many of the values of a Christian country are shared by people of all faiths and indeed by people of no faith at all."

So do you agree with Cameron? Is Britain a Christian country or have we become more secular? What does a Christian country mean anyway?

 

[Breathe]

I dunno, it (probably) kind of is (I'm so definite like that): historically, it was (even if we did swing from Protestant to Catholic.. a lot), and many people in the UK are still Christian. House of Lords and all that. The Queen is head of the church of England and all that jazz.

We have become more secular, most definitely. Secular is a good thing, though.

I don't think Cameron knows what he is talking about, though.

Moral collapse? Hm.
I suppose it's subjective. Where I live, moral collapse can often cover it. There's some real scumbags around here, but other places, people are nice. He's focusing more on the effects than the cause, when he should be focusing on stopping poverty, helping people into work, and so on, instead of just being so heavy handed and stupid with everything.

My view, anyway. I make it no secret I loathe Cameron and would happily drag him out of Number 10 by his hair.

 

[9Westy9]

I dunno, it (probably) kind of is (I'm so definite like that): historically, it was (even if we did swing from Protestant to Catholic.. a lot), and many people in the UK are still Christian. House of Lords and all that. The Queen is head of the church of England and all that jazz.

We have become more secular, most definitely. Secular is a good thing, though.

I don't think Cameron knows what he is talking about, though.

Moral collapse? Hm.
I suppose it's subjective. Where I live, moral collapse can often cover it. There's some real scumbags around here, but other places, people are nice. He's focusing more on the effects than the cause, when he should be focusing on stopping poverty, helping people into work, and so on, instead of just being so heavy handed and stupid with everything.

My view, anyway. I make it no secret I loathe Cameron and would happily drag him out of Number 10 by his hair.

I was going to vote for him last time. Wasn't quite old enough. Now I'm starting to prefer other parties.

 

[Sunstone]

When Cameron says Biblical values have made Britain what it is today, does he mean that Biblical values are responsible for the fact Britain has less upward social mobility than Norway and at least five other European countries?

 

[9Westy9]

When Cameron says Biblical values have made Britain what it is today, does he mean that Biblical values are responsible for the fact Britain has less upward social mobility than Norway and at least five other European countries?

I doubt it. He's too patriotic for that

 

[steve293000]

David Cameron has announced today that the UK is Christian country and that we should not be afraid to say it.

He's called for a revival of traditional Christian values to counter Britain's "moral collapse". What traditional values he feels are missing is alien to me but it doesn't sound promising.

He goes on to say "But what I am saying is that the Bible has helped to give Britain a set of values and morals which make Britain what it is today."

At least he seems to acknowledge other faith groups "Let me be clear: I am not in any way saying that to have another faith - or no faith - is somehow wrong."

Hopefully he means that and isn't just trying to get people on side

"Many people tell me it is much easier to be Jewish or Muslim here in Britain than it is in a secular country like France. Why? Because the tolerance that Christianity demands of our society provides greater space for other religious faiths too. And because many of the values of a Christian country are shared by people of all faiths and indeed by people of no faith at all."

So do you agree with Cameron? Is Britain a Christian country or have we become more secular? What does a Christian country mean anyway?

It's interesting to talk about what makes a country a "Christian country". I've thought about it, and came to this decision, that the West, Europe, Canada, and the US is Christian because it's not anything else. The West may not be 100% born again practicing Christians, but Christianity has taken a hold at various degrees throughout the societies in the West. The West has Christian roots, and that has made an impact on it's societies as compared to Buddhist, Hindu, or Moslem influence. Because of our history we have been changed and influenced for many generations by Christianity as opposed to any other religion, for the most part. I would say that if someone from the West is going to claim a God, it will usually be the God of the Bible. To that extent the West is Christian. Now, the Bible says that you must be born again, and I would say that is the real test whether someone is a Christian, for many Americans claim to be Christian not because they've been born again of the Spirit, but rather because it's the religion they were born in to. That is usually a very shallow faith, a very shallow Christian.

People hundreds of years ago were more submissive to the social standards, and would claim whatever religion was in power, but today not so much. Nowadays people question the religion of their society a lot more, which I think is better than as in the past, for the people that really seek and find God are a lot less shallow than those that just go along with the crowd. So, when a politician comes out and says we should go back to our Christian roots, I wonder if it really would impress God. It might make a more moral society, but is that really the purpose of life according to God? I don't think so. The Bible says the world will always be under the control of the Evil One, and that Christians are called out of that World, in a spiritual sense.

Those that try to make the world into a heaven are fighting the wrong battle according to God. What God seeks is that everyone come to Him and receive salvation and eternal life. The world is heading into more and more immorality and sin, that is Biblical. To the extent that people have faith in God we will lessen the speed of that eventuality. But sooner or later none will have faith, and that is when it will all end. IMO.

 

[Enlighten]

David Cameron has announced today that the UK is Christian country and that we should not be afraid to say it.

He's called for a revival of traditional Christian values to counter Britain's "moral collapse". What traditional values he feels are missing is alien to me but it doesn't sound promising.

He goes on to say "But what I am saying is that the Bible has helped to give Britain a set of values and morals which make Britain what it is today."

At least he seems to acknowledge other faith groups "Let me be clear: I am not in any way saying that to have another faith - or no faith - is somehow wrong."

Hopefully he means that and isn't just trying to get people on side

"Many people tell me it is much easier to be Jewish or Muslim here in Britain than it is in a secular country like France. Why? Because the tolerance that Christianity demands of our society provides greater space for other religious faiths too. And because many of the values of a Christian country are shared by people of all faiths and indeed by people of no faith at all."

So do you agree with Cameron? Is Britain a Christian country or have we become more secular? What does a Christian country mean anyway?

Basically I read from that, is to allow the goverment to keep control. It's easier to control a "Christian country" in my opinion, especially in the UK. What he is trying to do is as you say, get the nation onside. Personal opinion: Jumped up rich B trying to connect with the public, he does not know and will not understand what Joe Bloggs goes through each day to provide for his family so that is exactly the tripe I expect from him. The Christian country the UK was years ago is his ideal and can never be again, too many people are now awake to the shambles that our government are.

EDIT: why, do I read posts I know are going to send me on a rant?! :cover:

 

[Breathe]

I was going to vote for him last time. Wasn't quite old enough. Now I'm starting to prefer other parties.

I voted Dems. I'm not bothering with them again. Sell-outs and cowards haven't even been able to keep anything they promise. The fact they will still claim otherwise irritates me as well; things like "Oh, we're not sell-outs, we have kept firm to our principles and we've done (something really minor nobody cares about)..." and so on, whilst ignoring that they let university fees triple instead of scrapping them like they wanted. RAAAGH!

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

What he says is certainly right ... if seen in context.

No one complains in the UK about the use of religious symbols and festivals unless they are Christian ones.
( three years ago I was in hospital over Christmas and a Muslim was brought into the ward... The staff immediately took down all the Decorations and told us to put away or Christmas cards.)

He was speaking in the context that Christianity is now disadvantaged in public life by over officious local administrators.

Britain is not a secular country.
It has a state religion.
That religion is enshrined in Law and government.
It has never been challenged or repealed.
Every daily session of parliament starts with Prayers.

Nick Clegg Is the product of a Christian upbringing though a professed atheist ( his wife is a Spanish Catholic)..Even so he has acted in a more Christian way than perhaps Cameron has. His actions in the Coalition have certainly heavily moderated the more extreme policies of the Conservatives.

The Basic Laws and society of the UK are certainly based on the Biblical understandings of the Church of England, and moderated by the free protestant churches.

Social mobility has become almost entirely based on money, ability and political nous. just as it is in all western countries. Family and background are nothing with out the other three.

Education is only a tool it is not an end in itself. A majority of the extreme wealthy have surprisingly low educational attainment.

It would certainly be valuable for the country to emphasise the Christian values of Jesus teachings.

 

[tarasan]

David Cameron has announced today that the UK is Christian country and that we should not be afraid to say it.

He's called for a revival of traditional Christian values to counter Britain's "moral collapse". What traditional values he feels are missing is alien to me but it doesn't sound promising.

He goes on to say "But what I am saying is that the Bible has helped to give Britain a set of values and morals which make Britain what it is today."

At least he seems to acknowledge other faith groups "Let me be clear: I am not in any way saying that to have another faith - or no faith - is somehow wrong."

Hopefully he means that and isn't just trying to get people on side

"Many people tell me it is much easier to be Jewish or Muslim here in Britain than it is in a secular country like France. Why? Because the tolerance that Christianity demands of our society provides greater space for other religious faiths too. And because many of the values of a Christian country are shared by people of all faiths and indeed by people of no faith at all."

So do you agree with Cameron? Is Britain a Christian country or have we become more secular? What does a Christian country mean anyway?

yes I do, because quite frankly we are.

Britians official religion is Christianity unlike America which is offically a secular country.

 

[Kathryn]

I dunno - I'd say that the UK lost some ground "as a Christian nation" about the time Henry the VIII appointed himself as head of the Church!

 

[Breathe]

( three years ago I was in hospital over Christmas and a Muslim was brought into the ward... The staff immediately took down all the Decorations and told us to put away or Christmas cards.)

Did you tell them where they can kiss?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I dunno - I'd say that the UK lost some ground "as a Christian nation" about the time Henry the VIII appointed himself as head of the Church!

Not so, From a legal point of view, that is when Christianity in the form of the Church of England was incorporated into the state.
Before that the Church answered to Rome.

Britain is Christian and not secular, because the Church of England is the "Established" Church.
Finland probably has the most powerful national church as it can even raise taxes, and is enshrined in their constitution. Finland: Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland Though all Nordic states have established churches.


For a church to be established, says nothing about the size of its active membership.
But that church has a legal duty for the spiritual care for all it citizens ( what ever their religion) So Cameron was speaking exactly in line with the legal position.

 

[Kathryn]

Not so, From a legal point of view, that is when Christianity in the form of the Church of England was incorporated into the state.
Before that the Church answered to Rome.

Britain is Christian and not secular, because the Church of England is the "Established" Church.
Finland probably has the most powerful national church as it can even raise taxes, and is enshrined in their constitution. Finland: Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland Though all Nordic states have established churches.


For a church to be established, says nothing about the size of its active membership.
But that church has a legal duty for the spiritual care for all it citizens ( what ever their religion) So Cameron was speaking exactly in line with the legal position.

Well, I was being a bit facetious - but Henry the VIII did found the Church of England - an ironic turn of events in my opinion. He wasn't exactly a paragon of virtue.

 

[Revoltingest]

Well, I was being a bit facetious - but Henry the VIII did found the Church of England - an ironic turn of events in my opinion. He wasn't exactly a paragon of virtue.

This suggests that a return to Xian values should begin with Xians, rather than the country as a whole.
Once they've done this, I'll be more open to the idea adopting some of their wants.

 

[Kathryn]

This suggests that a return to Xian values should begin with Xians, rather than the country as a whole.
Once they've done this, I'll be more open to the idea adopting some of their wants.

Right on. I find the use of religion to further political agendas to be especially repugnant. We have quite a lot of that here in the US and I have a feeling that if Jesus were here, He'd do some temple cleansing the good ol' fashioned way He's done it before.

 

[Revoltingest]

Right on. I find the use of religion to further political agendas to be especially repugnant. We have quite a lot of that here in the US and I have a feeling that if Jesus were here, He'd do some temple cleansing the good ol' fashioned way He's done it before.

I hope he wouldn't smite Revoltistan.
At the very least, I'd like to get some of our significant artifacts moved to other museums first.

 

[Kathryn]

I hope he wouldn't smite Revoltistan.
At the very least, I'd like to get some of our significant artifacts moved to other museums first.

Well, that's between you and Him. But I believe He probably has more pressing issues to deal with, at least for the time being.

 

[Revoltingest]

Whew!

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Well, I was being a bit facetious - but Henry the VIII did found the Church of England - an ironic turn of events in my opinion. He wasn't exactly a paragon of virtue.

Quite true...
However he remained a believing Christian, and never lost or destroyed the fundamental beliefs and style of worship of the Church. What he did was to wipe away the power and structures that sustained the church of Rome in England.

His search for an heir turned him, in Roman eyes, into a serial polygamist, and church vandal.

It was not until King James and the advent of the new Bible and order of services, that the Church of England became beyond reasonable challenge.