UN and NAM should rise to the occasion in de-escalation of crisis

[ajay0]

The UN and NAM should rise to the occasion in order to ensure a timely de-escalation of the conflict raging in Ukraine-Russia.

NAM, the non-aligned movement was created in the previous century in order to prevent the world from moving into a third world war. They tried to achieve this by raising awareness of a dangers of a world war, and by not aligning militarily with either the US bloc or Soviet bloc.

The formation of this group then helped to bring awareness and perspective of the dangers of modern war, and helped to regulate the thought process of belligerent politicians then, and to view the bigger picture as well.

After the UN, NAM is the largest grouping of states worldwide.

Non-Aligned Movement - Wikipedia

The UN, NAM and impartial world leaders need to create a tranquil space of dialogue and diplomacy in between these belligerent entities so as to defuse passions and de-escalate the conflict.

 

[danieldemol]

The UN, NAM and impartial world leaders need to create a tranquil space of dialogue and diplomacy in between these belligerent entities so as to defuse passions and de-escalate the conflict.

When you say "these" belligerent entities it leaves me with the impression there is more than one aggressor here, but I think in this particular case there is only one aggressor - Putin and co.

In my opinion.

 

[ajay0]

When you say "these" belligerent entities it leaves me with the impression there is more than one aggressor here, but I think in this particular case there is only one aggressor - Putin and co.

In my opinion.

But you can see the U.S. and NATO encroaching on Russia's border areas with military alliances , while preventing NATO membership to Russia.

The U.S and NATO are not coming to Russia's border areas for partying, and have hostile intentions.

I am not sure that is a good idea considering Russia's nuclear arsenal that can wipe out the U.S and NATO many times over.

I don't want nuclear ash coming to my garden, please.

 

[Altfish]

The UN and NAM should rise to the occasion in order to ensure a timely de-escalation of the conflict raging in Ukraine-Russia.

NAM, the non-aligned movement was created in the previous century in order to prevent the world from moving into a third world war. They tried to achieve this by raising awareness of a dangers of a world war, and by not aligning militarily with either the US bloc or Soviet bloc.

The formation of this group then helped to bring awareness and perspective of the dangers of modern war, and helped to regulate the thought process of belligerent politicians then, and to view the bigger picture as well.

After the UN, NAM is the largest grouping of states worldwide.

Non-Aligned Movement - Wikipedia

The UN, NAM and impartial world leaders need to create a tranquil space of dialogue and diplomacy in between these belligerent entities so as to defuse passions and de-escalate the conflict.

How?
When you have an idiot with nuclear weapons doing the attacking, it could easily escalate.

 

[danieldemol]

But you can see the U.S. and NATO encroaching on Russia's border areas with military alliances , while preventing NATO membership to Russia.

That is because Russia threatens its neighbours with invasion, it would defeat the purpose of having a defensive alliance if you welcomed the invader into the alliance. No one is invading Russia in case you didn't notice.

The U.S and NATO are not coming to Russia's border areas for partying, and have hostile intentions.

Their intentions are defensive, and there are none in the Ukraine, look how that is working out for Ukraine.

I am not sure that is a good idea considering Russia's nuclear arsenal that can wipe out the U.S and NATO many times over.

I don't want nuclear ash coming to my garden, please.

You may not have a choice, if the Putin child is not put out of power.

In my opinion.

 

[Martin]

But you can see the U.S. and NATO encroaching on Russia's border areas with military alliances , while preventing NATO membership to Russia.

The U.S and NATO are not coming to Russia's border areas for partying, and have hostile intentions.

I am not sure that is a good idea considering Russia's nuclear arsenal that can wipe out the U.S and NATO many times over.

I don't want nuclear ash coming to my garden, please.

This narrative of NATO aggressively encroaching on Russia's borders is nonsense. Former Eastern block countries decided of their own free will to join NATO after the collapse of the Soviet empire. And who can blame them after decades of Soviet oppression?

 

[ajay0]

That is because Russia threatens its neighbours with invasion, it would defeat the purpose of having a defensive alliance if you welcomed the invader into the alliance. No one is invading Russia in case you didn't notice.

Russia invaded neighboring Georgia and Ukraine after they showed intention of joining Nato. If Nato had not encroached and tried to fix miltiary alliances with them, it would not have happened.

And why does NATO want to come to Russia's borders ! It obviously has hostile intentions.

 

[ajay0]

This narrative of NATO aggressively encroaching on Russia's borders is nonsense. Former Eastern block countries decided of their own free will to join NATO after the collapse of the Soviet empire. And who can blame them after decades of Soviet oppression?

I repeat , why does NATO have to come to Russia's borders with military alliances !

Former Eastern block countries decided of their own free will to join NATO after the collapse of the Soviet empire. And who can blame them after decades of Soviet oppression?

But the soviet union is a figure of the past. There is no such entity now, only Russia and Russians insecure with the encroaching NATO-US alliance, as they can have a military advantage if they position wmd in border areas of Russia.

 

[ChristineM]

But you can see the U.S. and NATO encroaching on Russia's border areas with military alliances , while preventing NATO membership to Russia.

The U.S and NATO are not coming to Russia's border areas for partying, and have hostile intentions.

I am not sure that is a good idea considering Russia's nuclear arsenal that can wipe out the U.S and NATO many times over.

I don't want nuclear ash coming to my garden, please.

As far as i am aware Russia cooperates with nato when it suits them but do not wish to join the alliance and actively prevents countries bordering on russia from joining nato

 

[danieldemol]

I repeat , why does NATO have to come to Russia's borders with military alliances !

I repeat, for defensive purposes! No, considering joining a defensive alliance is *not* a valid pretext for a pre-emptive strike

But the soviet union is a figure of the past. There is no such entity now, only Russia and Russians insecure with the encroaching NATO-US alliance, as they can have a military advantage if they position wmd in border areas of Russia.

Sounds like a Trump era policy, do you have reason to believe Biden is putting WMDs at the border of Russia?

This article discusses Putin's conspiracy theory of WMDs being brought to Ukraine at some length, you may find it relevant;

Putin Spins a Conspiracy Theory That Ukraine Is on a Path to Nuclear Weapons

From the article: "For their part, American officials have said repeatedly that they have no plans to place nuclear weapons in the country — and never have, especially since Ukraine is not a member of NATO.

But that has not stopped Mr. Putin from building a hypothetical case that all those things could happen, some day, theoretically putting Moscow at risk."

In my opinion.

 

[ajay0]

As far as i am aware Russia cooperates with nato when it suits them but do not wish to join the alliance and actively prevents countries bordering on russia from joining nato

But Russia had proposed joining NATO which was refused. So obviously Russia perceives NATO as a hostile entity and wishes to prevent them from coming near.

 

[ajay0]

I repeat, for defensive purposes! No, considering joining a defensive alliance is *not* a valid pretext for a pre-emptive strike.

I have read that the Americans have a strategic document focussing on pre-emptive strike on Russian bases and missile sites. And this is obviously a cause of concern for the Russians.

American-NATO weapons on border areas of Russia can give them a decisive strategic advantage.

All this talk of defensive alliance is clever hogwash. Lol...

Sounds like a Trump era policy, do you have reason to believe Biden is putting WMDs at the border of Russia?

There is no constant policy among American presidents. It is mainly the military-industrial complex and corporates that call the shots there, and the president just voices them.

It is mainly the middle and lower class Americans who are in the military, not the upper corporate classes.

Bush and Trump kept out of the miltiary using their wealth and influence.

This article discusses Putin's conspiracy theory of WMDs being brought to Ukraine at some length, you may find it relevant;

Putin Spins a Conspiracy Theory That Ukraine Is on a Path to Nuclear Weapons

From the article: "For their part, American officials have said repeatedly that they have no plans to place nuclear weapons in the country — and never have, especially since Ukraine is not a member of NATO.

But that has not stopped Mr. Putin from building a hypothetical case that all those things could happen, some day, theoretically putting Moscow at risk."

In my opinion.

It is not just Putin, any country's head and security would get insecure pondering such possibilities.

I would say the UN had not brainstormed contingency measures to prevent such conflicts from occuring.

 

[Martin]

But Russia had proposed joining NATO which was refused. So obviously Russia perceives NATO as a hostile entity and wishes to prevent them from coming near.

When exactly did Russia request to join NATO?

 

[ajay0]

When exactly did Russia request to join NATO?

Estro Felino over here stated that Russia's request to join Nato was rejected.I asked him for a link but did not get a working one.

Even if this is not true, NATO can request Russia to join NATO which can reduce Russian insecurities and help bring peace to the region.

 

[danieldemol]

I have read that the Americans have a strategic document focussing on pre-emptive strike on Russian bases and missile sites. And this is obviously a cause of concern for the Russians.

Ok

American-NATO weapons on border areas of Russia can give them a decisive strategic advantage.

Since there are none in Ukraine and no plans to put any there or accept them into NATO what guarantee do you think could be given to Putin to get him to discontinue his pre-emptive strike against Ukraine?

From the article i cited;
"When Ukraine gave up a huge arsenal of nuclear weapons left on its territory after the collapse of the Soviet Union, it famously struck a deal with Washington, London and Moscow, trading the weapons for a guarantee of its security and borders."
In other words Ukraine has literally given up WMDs for an agreement of peace long before Putin came to power.

All this talk of defensive alliance is clever hogwash. Lol...

I'm afraid I disagree, given Putins pre-emptive strike against a non WMD non-Nato Ukraine it is evidently justified.

There is no constant policy among American presidents. It is mainly the military-industrial complex and corporates that call the shots there, and the president just voices them.

If the current president is giving voice to the current shots of the military industrial complex (MIC) then the MIC evidently has no plans to join Ukraine to NATO and no plans to put WMDs there.

It is not just Putin, any country's head and security would get insecure pondering such possibilities.

If Pakistan decides to pre-emptively strike India tomorrow on the basis of such possibilities remind me we had this conversation.

I would say the UN had not brainstormed contingency measures to prevent such conflicts from occuring.

No reason we can't brainstorm to help them, any ideas?

In my opinion.

 

[danieldemol]

Estro Felino over here stated that Russia's request to join Nato was rejected.I asked him for a link but did not get a working one.

Even if this is not true, NATO can request Russia to join NATO which can reduce Russian insecurities and help bring peace to the region.

NATO could conditionally agree to acceptance of Russia into its ranks on condition that it accepts democracy and withdraws all forces from Ukraine.

Heck I'd even just settle for them withdrawing all forces from Ukraine and compensating Ukrainians who lost their lives/livelihoods so far.

In my opinion.

 

[Estro Felino]

Estro Felino over here stated that Russia's request to join Nato was rejected.I asked him for a link but did not get a working one.

Even if this is not true, NATO can request Russia to join NATO which can reduce Russian insecurities and help bring peace to the region.

It is true. I have read a reliable source in my own language.
Unfortunately they did many things behind our back. And do not reveal them.

 

[Estro Felino]

NATO could conditionally agree to acceptance of Russia into its ranks on condition that it accepts democracy and withdraws all forces from Ukraine.

Heck I'd even just settle for them withdrawing all forces from Ukraine and compensating Ukrainians who lost their lives/livelihoods so far.

In my opinion.

Russia is democratic enough.
Not less democratic than Turkey, another member of the NATO.

 

[Twilight Hue]

The UN and NAM should rise to the occasion in order to ensure a timely de-escalation of the conflict raging in Ukraine-Russia.

NAM, the non-aligned movement was created in the previous century in order to prevent the world from moving into a third world war. They tried to achieve this by raising awareness of a dangers of a world war, and by not aligning militarily with either the US bloc or Soviet bloc.

The formation of this group then helped to bring awareness and perspective of the dangers of modern war, and helped to regulate the thought process of belligerent politicians then, and to view the bigger picture as well.

After the UN, NAM is the largest grouping of states worldwide.

Non-Aligned Movement - Wikipedia

The UN, NAM and impartial world leaders need to create a tranquil space of dialogue and diplomacy in between these belligerent entities so as to defuse passions and de-escalate the conflict.

It's worth a try but rest assured concessions will have to be made.

 

[Stevicus]

This narrative of NATO aggressively encroaching on Russia's borders is nonsense. Former Eastern block countries decided of their own free will to join NATO after the collapse of the Soviet empire. And who can blame them after decades of Soviet oppression?

Well, since the Soviet Union decided of its own free to disband and reject communism (which the West regards as an odious ideology), then that should have been a clear sign that the Russians and their government turned over a new leaf and were ready to be a responsible, cooperative, and friendly nation. They chose to stand down on their own, in good faith that the West would do the same. The West did not.

Let's say you have two gunfighters pointing weapons at each other. One of them, in an act of peace, decides to lay down their weapon in front of them, hoping and expecting the other to do the same. If the other keeps pointing their weapon, then I would consider that to be a treacherous act of aggression, in and of itself.