UN Experts Express Alarm over "Credible Allegations" of Sexual Assault and Rape Targeting Palestinian Women and Committed by the IDF

[dybmh]

October 7 was carried out by Hamas

There were at least 2 Palestinian violent extremist organizations which carried out the Oct 7th attack.

The report is also about Israeli soldiers,

There is NO report, as far as I can tell. Nothing has *actually* been published. As stated earlier, at least one of the claims which they are calling "credible" is a debunked hoax from a call-in radio program. The UN is not an organization which can be trusted to accurately evaluate the credibility of these claims.

 

[dybmh]

israel has a long history of sexual violence and torture against detainees

not true.

And even if it were, detainees everywhere have a much longer history of lying about being abused. A recent example is up-thread, however, we don't know if the man *actually* claims to have been abused. The "NewArab" says so. The pictures show it's a lie.

 

[dybmh]

So, IDF - never lies. Hamas - always lies. Got it.

The report gives many sources. It doesn't come from the IDF. It's an independent advocacy group which has been working against exploitation of women for decades.

The information coming from israel and the IDF are verifiable. The information coming from the UN is not. The information coming from the UN has recently been shown to be unreliable. There is no reason to consider the information coming from the UN in this case to be "credible".

If it's so easy for you to believe a set of allegations

You still have not answered the question I asked previously

So, what exactly is credible about these reports?

Why do YOU believe the set of allegations are credible? Did you apply even 1 drop of critical thinking to what you posted?

From the link:

"We are shocked by reports of the deliberate targeting and extrajudicial killing of Palestinian women and children in places where they sought refuge, or while fleeing. Some of them were reportedly holding white pieces of cloth when they were killed by the Israeli army or affiliated forces,”

Now, think about this for a moment. Do these "reports" make sense? It says "deliberate killing of Palestinian women." That would mean the israelis saw women and choose to kill them because of their gender. The attacks they are referring to were air strikes. It is absolutely impossible to distinguish between male and female when targeting air strikes. The individual, at best is seen as a human form which is moving like a human moves. It's neither male nor female.

So, Why do YOU believe these allegations are credible? Did you think about it? At all?

 

[Debater Slayer]

Why do YOU believe the set of allegations are credible? Did you apply even 1 drop of critical thinking to what you posted?

For anyone else who may be reading the thread: the above is an oversimplification—and an especially tribalistic one—of my actual position, which I detailed in the OP. I did not say that I believed or disbelieved any allegations but instead said the allegations were extremely serious and warranting of thorough investigation:

The descriptions are absolutely sickening, and anyone found guilty or complicit needs to be sent to trial and maximally prosecuted for their actions.

Just like the allegations that Hamas militants sexually assaulted and raped Israeli women, I believe the only responsible and ethical way to address the above allegations against IDF members would be to conduct a thorough and independent investigation thereof. These allegations can't be ignored by any institution or country that claims to even remotely be humane and supportive of the rule of law.

 

[Colt]

1) The report is about rape, not "having sex with." I notice you only changed the description about Palestinian women, and I find the rewording abominably irresponsible.

2) The report is also about Israeli soldiers, and the fact that most of them are Jewish has no relevance to the report. Don't try to bait and fish for controversy by trying to switch the subject to religion or ethnicity.

3) I also notice that you said "Hamas or Palestinian men." October 7 was carried out by Hamas. Palestinian men are like all men elsewhere: the vast majority don't attack anyone, despite the innuendo in your wording.

4) If it's so easy for you to believe a set of allegations but so difficult to believe the other before a thorough investigation has been conducted into either, it seems to me that this demonstrates preconceived notions and bias, which means you should approach the subject with more consideration for the human rights of both Israeli and Palestinian civilians instead of trying to turn the subject into a tribalistic sports game.

I ask "why" I feel that way because I do. My distrust of Palestinian terrorist is greater than my mistrust of the IDF. Hamas is comprised of Palestinian men dressed up as fighters. Since the “al-Aqṣā intifada” Hamas gained support and popularity and it is religious!

 

[LadyJane]

We all know rape is an unfortunate by product of war and these horrific events began with the use of such terrorism. Since then I have heard the IDF repeatedly describe the people of Gaza as the enemy in a way that frames them as an army of soldiers on a battlefield instead of a group of innocent civilians. That dehumanization makes it easy for them to defend the tactics they use and these accusations therefore come as no surprise. Terrorism is Terrorism.

 

[libre]

Why is it difficult for me to believe that Jewish men would want to go into Gaza and have sex with Palestinian women but I don’t think twice about the claims that Hamas or Palestinian men would want to gang rape a Jewish women?

If the only factor relevant to you is the nationality of the perpetrator, the diagnosis you are looking for is racism.

 

[metis]

Since then I have heard the IDF repeatedly describe the people of Gaza as the enemy in a way that frames them as an army of soldiers on a battlefield instead of a group of innocent civilians.

I follow this very closely and have not heard this, so can you provide links? The IDF uses "Hamas" constantly.

 

[Colt]

If the only factor relevant to you is the nationality of the perpetrator, the diagnosis you are looking for is racism.

Thats the Lefts answer to everything. The Jews and Palestinians are cousins, they both share genetic origins in the same region, so its not racism. Rather I think the issue is one of trust.

 

[Revoltingest]

israel has a long history of sexual violence and torture against detainees

It's military also sexually assaults its own.

Out of 1,542 IDF sexual assault complaints, just 31 indictments filed

The IDF released figures of sexual assault for 2020 in February of last year with 1,542 complaints, including 26 cases of rape, 391 obscene acts, and 92 cases of distributing photos and videos.

www.jpost.com

They do this to their own, largely with impunity.
Imagine what they do to those "human animals",
eg, Palestinians, Muslims.

 

[Revoltingest]

For anyone else who may be reading the thread: the above is an oversimplification—and an especially tribalistic one—of my actual position, which I detailed in the OP. I did not say that I believed or disbelieved any allegations but instead said the allegations were extremely serious and warranting of thorough investigation:

To quote (modified) Dr McCoy....
"What the Klingon poster has said is unimportant and we do not hear his words."

 

[LadyJane]

I follow this very closely and have not heard this, so can you provide links? The IDF uses "Hamas" constantly.

I’ve noticed the consistent conflation of Hamas and Palestinians whenever spokespersons are invited to defend themselves on television. Like Israel Defense Forces Lt. Col. Richard Hecht who when asked about all the women and children suffering told CNN. “When the Hamas agency comes out with the numbers, take them with a pinch of salt.” Totally glossing over the point.

I am able to separate Israeli leadership from Israeli citizens and I would expect the IDF to do the same regarding Hamas and Palestinians.

Before They Vowed to Annihilate Hamas, Israeli Officials Considered It an Asset

Hamas has long offered Israel an alibi to avoid abiding by its supposed commitment to Palestinian statehood.

theintercept.com

Those are my observations in general. But I was mainly referring to the incident where they were fired upon at the end of February.

Dozens killed in Gaza aid stampede; IDF says its fire caused no more than 10 casualties

Hamas puts toll at 104, blames Israel, could suspend hostage talks; IDF: Most casualties were trampled or run over; troops did not fire on crowd, shot at several Gazans who endangered them

www.timesofisrael.com

The IDF insists they don’t need an independent investigation. That doesn’t exactly inspire confidence in a quest for transparency.

 

[Lyndon]

IDF used torture to extract false confessions from UNWRA members

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[Lyndon]

The biggest joke is to call Israel a democracy when it is closer to a fascist dictatorship, Israel media is just propaganda and most people have no idea what is happening in Gaza because the media blocks all coverage

 

[lewisnotmiller]

It's military also sexually assaults its own.

Out of 1,542 IDF sexual assault complaints, just 31 indictments filed

The IDF released figures of sexual assault for 2020 in February of last year with 1,542 complaints, including 26 cases of rape, 391 obscene acts, and 92 cases of distributing photos and videos.

www.jpost.com

They do this to their own, largely with impunity.
Imagine what they do to those "human animals",
eg, Palestinians, Muslims.

I know you're not a hawk, so I don't say this as a counterpoint to you.
The sexual assault statistics for all military forces who freely report such things are not good reading. The IDF is not alone in this.

 

[Revoltingest]

I know you're not a hawk, so I don't say this as a counterpoint to you.
The sexual assault statistics for all military forces who freely report such things are not good reading. The IDF is not alone in this.

That's my view too.
It only shows that Israel isn't exempt from
the evils that afflict other countries, &
groups like Hamas.

 

[Nakosis]

Multiple UN experts have expressed alarm over "credible allegations" of major human rights abuses targeting Palestinian women, including sexual assault and rape:





The experts have called for an independent, prompt, and thorough investigation of the allegations:

Israel/oPt: UN experts appalled by reported human rights violations against Palestinian women and girls

GENEVA (19 February 2024) – UN experts* today expressed alarm over credible allegations of egregious human rights violations to which Palestinian women and girls continue to be subjected in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.

www.ohchr.org

The descriptions are absolutely sickening, and anyone found guilty or complicit needs to be sent to trial and maximally prosecuted for their actions.

Just like the allegations that Hamas militants sexually assaulted and raped Israeli women, I believe the only responsible and ethical way to address the above allegations against IDF members would be to conduct a thorough and independent investigation thereof. These allegations can't be ignored by any institution or country that claims to even remotely be humane and supportive of the rule of law.

In times of war, Id imagine most atrocities go on resolved.
The IDF ought to pursue these allegations as stringently as possible though I'd suppose there are numerous political reasons not to. That's what I'd look for though. How thoroughly the IDF police its own.

 

[Nakosis]

I ask "why" I feel that way because I do. My distrust of Palestinian terrorist is greater than my mistrust of the IDF. Hamas is comprised of Palestinian men dressed up as fighters. Since the “al-Aqṣā intifada” Hamas gained support and popularity and it is religious!

One would then hope that the IDF holds itself to a higher standard.
Unfortunately so far, from a number of different sources, this doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

On balance, I find this thread despicable.

This thread is presumably about a UN statement headlined

Israel/oPt: UN experts appalled by reported human rights violations against Palestinian women and girls​

One might expect expressions of deep outrage at this signature aspect of the October 7th pogrom. One would further expect real concern for those Israelis who are still sequestered in Gaza.

I find it sickening that many of the respondents are clearly far from "appalled." There's a term for this.

To paraphrase Rabbi Sharon Brous:

Our humble ask is that people give a damn when we're sexually assaulted and mutilated.​

 

[Revoltingest]

I’ve noticed the consistent conflation of Hamas and Palestinians whenever spokespersons are invited to defend themselves on television. Like Israel Defense Forces Lt. Col. Richard Hecht who when asked about all the women and children suffering told CNN. “When the Hamas agency comes out with the numbers, take them with a pinch of salt.” Totally glossing over the point.

I am able to separate Israeli leadership from Israeli citizens and I would expect the IDF to do the same regarding Hamas and Palestinians.

Before They Vowed to Annihilate Hamas, Israeli Officials Considered It an Asset

Hamas has long offered Israel an alibi to avoid abiding by its supposed commitment to Palestinian statehood.

theintercept.com

Those are my observations in general. But I was mainly referring to the incident where they were fired upon at the end of February.

Dozens killed in Gaza aid stampede; IDF says its fire caused no more than 10 casualties

Hamas puts toll at 104, blames Israel, could suspend hostage talks; IDF: Most casualties were trampled or run over; troops did not fire on crowd, shot at several Gazans who endangered them

www.timesofisrael.com

The IDF insists they don’t need an independent investigation. That doesn’t exactly inspire confidence in a quest for transparency.

From link, there's an obvious lie....
"....the Israeli Defense Forces acts in accordance with Israeli and international law..."

USA shields Israel from all UN sanctions for violating international law.