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UN Resolution 16/18 impinges on freedom of expression

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
In order to evaluate UN resolution 16/18 some context is important.

For over a decade, the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC), has been pushing the UN to create blasphemy resolutions. You might ask yourself why they're so focused on this goal?

In practice what we see in the world is an asymmetric situation in which:

1 - OIC countries are systematically "cleansing" their countries of other religions. I understand that "cleansing" is a charged and often understood term. "Cleansing" does not mean bloodshed. A "cleansing" initiative often does involve violence, but it doesn't have to. So in practice, OIC countries are systematically INTOLERANT of other religions.

2 - At the same time, the OIC complains endlessly of intolerance towards Islam in "the West", and in other regions experiencing significant Muslim immigration.

== Who will brandish a blasphemy law?

It's fair to ask, "If blasphemy resolutions are passed, who is likely to use them effectively?".

For decades, the countries represented by the OIC have fought against the UN's original human rights declaration, which was first adopted in 1948. In 1990, the OIC established the "Cairo Declaration on Human Rights in Islam". This document clearly puts the needs of Islam before individual human rights.

In a nutshell, any UN resolution that ratifies the very idea of blasphemy is a club that will be used by Islam against the non-Islamic world, and it will not be used in the opposite direction.

== Who judges speech for "blasphemy" ?

Quite famously in 2006, a handful of Danish cartoons depicting Muhammad sparked riots, violence and deaths across the world. (As a bit of history, initially these cartoons were published and largely went unnoticed. Months later Islamists found and re-surfaced these cartoons to stir controversy. In addition, a group of Muslim authorities petitioned the Danish Prime Minister to censor these cartoons. They were - in effect - asking another country to attack "blasphemy".)

Several decades ago Salman Rushdie published a novel critical of Islam. The head of Iran issued a fatwa putting a price on the author's head, again blasphemy.

So who will judge whether a given bit of speech or expression is blasphemous?

Who will judge whether a cartoon might "incite violence"?

== UN 16/18 chips away at freedom of expression

I claim (and I'm not alone), that UN resolution 16/18 was a victory for the OIC and represents a threat to freedom of expression. Taking the previous context in mind, here are a few passages from the resolution:

3. Condemns any advocacy of religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence, whether it involves the use of print, audio-visual or electronic media or any other means.

5(e). (States should) Speak out against intolerance, including advocacy of religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence,

5(f) (States should) Adopting measures to criminalize incitement to imminent violence based on religion or belief.

Paragraph 5(f) paves the way to criminalizing speech that some "authority" deems to be blasphemous.

Without the historic context, this resolution reads as if it's "reasonable". But with the context I've laid out, it's more reasonable to extrapolate that the OIC can and will use this resolution to limit criticism of Islam and to attempt to impinge on free of expression.

Freedom of expression is a linchpin of human rights, modernity and secularism. We must not allow even the slightest of erosions to our hard fought freedoms of expression.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
The International Law is supposed not to contradict the constitution of a country. Never
so, let's take France, as example. The first article of the French Constitution says that France is a democratic, liberal and SECULAR republic.
That means that the French republic doesn't give a damn about religions. All religions are equally unimportant and juridically irrelevant before the law.

so...in other words, there will never be a law in France that prevents thinkers or politicians from saying what they really think about religions.

That UNO resolutions is just pure delirium
 

Alceste

Vagabond
In Canada, we already have restrictions on hate speech. It barely affects anyone, but those who it does affect kind of deserve it, IMO. For example, the teacher who introduced virulent anti-Semitic material into his courses, or the religious guy who passed out pamphlets advocating death for homosexuals.

I guess I can't see why this is perceived as such a big deal. It seems a trivial issue, to me, but maybe that's because I feel no impulse to disseminate hate speech or advocate violence against people on the basis of their religion.

I disagree that it paves the way for blasphemy laws, and even if it did, the countries who want such laws already have them anyway.
 

Wirey

Fartist
In Canada, we already have restrictions on hate speech. It barely affects anyone, but those who it does affect kind of deserve it, IMO. For example, the teacher who introduced virulent anti-Semitic material into his courses, or the religious guy who passed out pamphlets advocating death for homosexuals.

I guess I can't see why this is perceived as such a big deal. It seems a trivial issue, to me, but maybe that's because I feel no impulse to disseminate hate speech or advocate violence against people on the basis of their religion.

I disagree that it paves the way for blasphemy laws, and even if it did, the countries who want such laws already have them anyway.

This.
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
The UN is like a four year old child. When they show you something they scribbled down on paper, you smile, pat them on the head, tell them how nice it is, place it on the refrigerator, and then go about your business until it ends up in a box or the garbage next month.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
I disagree that it paves the way for blasphemy laws, and even if it did, the countries who want such laws already have them anyway.

well...you underestimate the power of religious lobbies, especially in the Us, where the UNO headquarters are located. there is a battle between Secularists and religious fundamentalists in many countries;
I want secularism to triumph in each modern country and I can't do but admit that European countries like France and Germany are more secular and open-minded than the Us.

Italy is getting more and more secular but I am not satisfied yet.
There is still a blasphemy law, which I would erase from the code. It is an administrative law, so it is punished with a fine.
But it's disgusting that such a law still exists in my country
 
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Alceste

Vagabond
well...you underestimate the power of religious lobbies, especially in the Us, where the UNO headquarters are located. there is a battle between Secularists and religious fundamentalists in many countries;
I want secularism to triumph in each modern country and I can't do but admit that European countries like France and Germany are more secular and open-minded than the Us.

Italy is getting more and more secular but I am not satisfied yet. It's disgusting that in the Italian penal code there are still crimes of opinion.
There is still a blasphemy law, which I would erase from the code. It is an administrative law, so it is punished with a fine.
But it's disgusting that such a law still exists in my country

Don't get me wrong, I'm a card carrying blasphemer myself, but I don't advocate violence against anyone on the basis of their religious beliefs (or lack thereof). That's hate speech, not blasphemy. "There is no God" or "the God depicted the Bible and the Q'uran is kind of a jerk and I can't understand why anyone worships him" or "it's super rapey that Muhammed married a child". That's blasphemy. "Death to Muslims" is hate speech. I don't know what the best solution is, but I agree with the UN that the latter should be addressed in some way by public policies in member states.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Don't get me wrong, I'm a card carrying blasphemer myself, but I don't advocate violence against anyone on the basis of their religious beliefs (or lack thereof). That's hate speech, not blasphemy. "There is no God" or "the God depicted the Bible and the Q'uran is kind of a jerk and I can't understand why anyone worships him" or "it's super rapey that Muhammed married a child". That's blasphemy. "Death to Muslims" is hate speech. I don't know what the best solution is, but I agree with the UN that the latter should be addressed in some way by public policies in member states.

well...honestly. Freedom of speech implies that anyone can say what they really think about religions. Religions are abstract concepts, they are not people.
Okay, if you insult people, you can be sued. But what about religions?

In my country any thinker or writer can say what they think about Christianity. A professor, who is an atheist wrote several books in which he analyzes the Bible and concludes saying that it is a book for loonies. Not to mention what he says about Mary, Jesus and the apostles.
Is this a crime? Is this blasphemy?
No. anyone is free to criticize any religion. It is called freedom of thought.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
In Canada, we already have restrictions on hate speech. It barely affects anyone, but those who it does affect kind of deserve it, IMO. For example, the teacher who introduced virulent anti-Semitic material into his courses, or the religious guy who passed out pamphlets advocating death for homosexuals.

I guess I can't see why this is perceived as such a big deal. It seems a trivial issue, to me, but maybe that's because I feel no impulse to disseminate hate speech or advocate violence against people on the basis of their religion.

I disagree that it paves the way for blasphemy laws, and even if it did, the countries who want such laws already have them anyway.

A government should never have the power to dictate to the people what they can or cannot think or say, regardless of how ignorant, irrational, and/or repugnant it may be. This desire to police the thoughts and words of others is quite Orwellian and a recipe for tyranny.

In a free and civilized society, you allow an idea to be spoken, and then it should be openly examined, critiqued, scrutinized, and then if found false, rebutted and dismissed.
People should be taught to use critical thought to identify and counter dumb ideas. Censorship is for cowards.
 
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Wirey

Fartist
A government should never have the power to dictate to the people what they can or cannot think or say, regardless of how ignorant, irrational, and/or repugnant it may be. This desire to police the thoughts and words of others is quite Orwellian and a recipe for tyranny.

So you're okay with me thinking and saying people should harm your family? There's a line.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
So you're okay with me thinking and saying people should harm your family? There's a line.


we are talking about expressing opinions on religions.
You are free to say whatever you want about a system of values, or a religion, or a philosophical concept.
Do religions, or concepts have a heart? Can they be hurt?
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
So you're okay with me thinking and saying people should harm your family? There's a line.

Depends, are you talking about an actual threat or harassment, or merely expressing a wish that harm would come to my family? Of course I wouldn't "be okay" with it, but I don't think the government should be stepping in to silence people just to spare feelings from being hurt.
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
Freedom of speech and expression are the cornerstones of most all other freedoms.

Nah, I'm pretty sure the cornerstone of freedom is enacting measures to help keep all the oversensitive people of the world from being offended at all times. After all, if easily offended and touchy people can't be free from feeling like they're being mocked or judged, are any of us really free?
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Nah, I'm pretty sure the cornerstone of freedom is enacting measures to help keep all the oversensitive people of the world from being offended at all times. After all, if easily offended and touchy people can't be free from feeling like they're being mocked or judged, are any of us really free?

I'm pretty sure you're right, but I'm reluctant to say so for fear of offending someone, somewhere, at some point in time.
 
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