Understanding the holy scriptures is impossible unless God gives you the interpretation

[Trailblazer]

You don't Believe in Elohim/God or have any Faith.

I have Belief and Faith in God. My life is centered around that Belief and Faith.

I have been reading some of your exchanges with the Atheist @It Aint Necessarily So and you have stated you would marry an Agnostic. This proves that you have no Belief or Faith in Elohim/God. You are also supporting writings against the Bible of the Atheist @It Aint Necessarily So. Therefore, you are My Satanic Enemy that is in a Total War against Elohim/God.

That I would marry an agnostic does not mean that I have no Belief or Faith in God. I would rather marry an agnostic than a Christian since agnostics are more rational, and as you know, Christians do not even live like true Christians, so what's the point?

I do support @It Aint Necessarily So because he is my friend and I consider him a good person, a moral person, and a rational person. Although I am still a firm believer in God, he has opened my eyes on many things.

I support writings against the Bible because because I do not unquestionably believe the Bible is the Word of God. Rather, I believe it is the writings of men who claimed to be inspired by God. The Bible is not my holy book. I adhere to the Writings of Baha'u'llah.

I believe some of that Bible is patently false and that means it cannot be trusted as a Source of information about God. The Bible as written for people who lived in an ancient world, so it was written according to their capacity to understand God and other things. People living in this modern age have the capacity to better understand God and many things, so we have new scriptures now, the Writings of Baha'u'llah. We also have a new message from God, a message that Christians have completely ignored.

I don't care if you want to be my enemy. I am nobody's enemy just because they do not believe what I believe.

 

[firedragon]

"Wall of writing?" Your question was already in answered in one of the posts you considered too long to read. I'm not motivated to repeat it and you seem unwilling to do your part, so I think we're done. What reason would I have to continue with you when you are dictatorial about how I must write to you and offensive in your judgment of what I have written without even reading it?

Yikes! Your Satanic enemy? Is this what your religion teaches you? This is pure vitriol.

Maybe you can understand my antitheism. And maybe @Trailblazer can better understand why I say that the more religion a person absorbs, the worse it is for him and his neighbors. We need less of what you are being taught and are now disseminating in the world. I wonder which of our messages she will find more appealing.

I don't recall asking you or anybody else for life advice. Whatever path you're on, no thanks.

I say let him speak. Let his light shine.

What's this?

 

[Elihoenai]

I don't recall asking you or anybody else for life advice. Whatever path you're on, no thanks.

Understanding the holy scriptures is impossible unless God gives you the interpretation

Understanding the holy scriptures is impossible unless God gives you the interpretation

It Aint Necessarily So said:

As I've said, I'm comfortable without religion. And I'm not looking for life advice any more than you are. I worked that out decades ago. What advice do you think you could give me to improve my life?

Elihoenai said:

To improve your life, from your Perspective is Total Devotion to the path you are on Being Whole Hearted. Total Devotion in your life is Marquis de Sade, Jacob Frank and Aleister Crowley. I don't know if your at the level of Commitment as these Practitioners.

Aleister Crowley - Bio

 

[jimb]

1 Corinthians 1:22-25​

22 Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom,
23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,
24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.

The signs and the wisdom is the evidence people ask for to believe. God will never present such evidence even if it means people will end up in hell. Something God will never do is to violate a human's autonomy. He created logical and FREE beings, not robots. That is what He created human in His own icon means. Human has AUTONOMY. The moment God presents solid proof like many people ask for the autonomy and freedom gets lost. Even if Jesus presents himself in front of someone of those who demand solid proof they might probably say their brain is playing tricks on them,they will not believe. Jesus said in the story with Lazarus and the rich man that even if someone is raised from the fead they will not believe.

That passage means you have to accept first Jesus and the teachings of the Church first and you will find the evidence later. Like the scientists who make an experiment to prove a theory. You want proof? Make the experiment, follow the teachings of the Church and you will find the evidence, the proof you are asking for. The moment you don't follow the teachings of the Church don't say there is not proof.

A verse that I have posted often explains this clearly... "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." Hebrews 11:1

I believe that until someone acquires faith, s/he will never truly understand God's truths. Requiring evidence is the opposite of faith.

 

[Trailblazer]

A verse that I have posted often explains this clearly... "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." Hebrews 11:1

I believe that until someone acquires faith, s/he will never truly understand God's truths. Requiring evidence is the opposite of faith.

I also have faith, but it is evidence-based faith. No just God would expect people to believe if there was no evidence.

Faith is what God wants us to have and that is why there is no proof that God exists.

Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who approaches Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him.

Believing in God requires faith since no man has ever seen God. Then we go looking for the evidence. I believe that God will reward those who earnestly seek Him by helping them find the evidence they need to believe.

God could prove that He exists if God wanted to do so, but If God proved He exists then we would no longer need faith, because we would know 'for a fact' that God exists. So, it makes logical sense to me why there is no proof that God exists, because God wants us to believe on faith and the evidence that God provides.

Evidence is not proof unless it is verifiable evidence, but there is no way to verify that God exists, so there is no verifiable evidence, which is the kind of evidence that atheists want.

The only way we could have verifiable evidence (proof) that God exists is if God verified His existence in some manner.

If God wanted verify that He exists He could easily do so, but instead all God offers is evidence. The Bible is evidence, but there is also other evidence.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

The signs and the wisdom is the evidence people ask for to believe. God will never present such evidence even if it means people will end up in hell.

That's reason enough to disregard the claims of others about that god. How could they know anything about a god that provides no evidence that it exists?

Something God will never do is to violate a human's autonomy.

A god making itself known doesn't violate anybody's autonomy.

The moment God presents solid proof like many people ask for the autonomy and freedom gets lost.

Why would you say that? If I appear before you as solid proof that I exist, your autonomy is not diminished.

That passage means you have to accept first Jesus and the teachings of the Church first and you will find the evidence later.

And for what else is that true? It's not true for the sun. The evidence precedes and justifies the belief that the sun exists. It's not true for anything known to be real, like a cloud, or a lizard, or that people get tired and sleep. None of that needs to be believed before it is discovered and confirmed empirically.

It is true for vampires and leprechauns. As long a one remains skeptical about their existence and requires evidence before believing, he will remain an unbeliever. If he can somehow get himself to accept the existence of these things first, he may eventually come to believe it and he will likely point to things as evidence that never were evidence to support his beliefs in the past.

Make the experiment, follow the teachings of the Church and you will find the evidence, the proof you are asking for.

Only if one lacks or can suppress critical thinking skills. I can attest to that firsthand. I couldn't and didn't, although I agreed to suspend critical judgment to see if that evidence you and others promised would materialize. It never did.

From a post I wrote in a different thread describing my approach to Christianity, which I entered at about age 19 and after two years at university:

"There was no evidence that the god I believed in, the Christian god - existed before I became a Christian, while I was a Christian, or afterward, and I was already a relatively skilled critical thinker. I entered the religion willing to wait for the evidence to manifest. I willingly suspended disbelief to see if the experience supported a god belief, or, as I worded it then, to try out this ideology and see if it would begin to make sense the way one might walk for a while in a new pair of shoes that don't feel quite right in the hope that they would fit and feel better with time. That never happened, and so I left the religion."

I believe that until someone acquires faith, s/he will never truly understand God's truths. Requiring evidence is the opposite of faith.

 

[Elijah2]

Curious which scroll you are referring to .. Ezekiel is 2500 years back not 3000 but we have writing from 3000 years back and indeed know what these folks believed about the Gods - Elohim .. beliefs and practices that Ezekiel is not happy about.

The scroll is called the "Shapira scroll" - two books were written about it in 2021. One from a high level Jewish source, Idan Dershowitz, in "The Valediction of Moses", and the Christian account by Ross Nichols, in "The Moses Scroll." I have the basics on it at my web site, and of the two books, The Valediction of Moses is the better book - but it's over 100 dollars to get a copy.

See: Onediscipletoanother organization. I think it is the key to unlocking all the religious discord today for those willing to honor it. It's all jbasically common sense - cause and effect - not about being more holy than anyone else, or believing or faithing harder than your neighbor - it's totally about honest, equity, and true justice.

 

[Elijah2]

Curious which scroll you are referring to .. Ezekiel is 2500 years back not 3000 but we have writing from 3000 years back and indeed know what these folks believed about the Gods - Elohim .. beliefs and practices that Ezekiel is not happy about.

The scroll is called the "Shapira scroll" - two books were written about it in 2021. One from a high level Jewish source, Idan Dershowitz, in "The Valediction of Moses", and the Christian account by Ross Nichols, in "The Moses Scroll." I have the basics on it at my web site, and of the two books, The Valediction of Moses is the better book - but it's over 100 dollars to get a copy.

I think it is the key to unlocking all the religious discord today for those willing to honor it. It's all jbasically common sense - cause and effect - not about being more holy than anyone else, or believing or faithing harder than your neighbor - it's totally about honest, equity, and true justice. http://www.onediscipletoanother.org

 

[Subduction Zone]

The scroll is called the "Shapira scroll" - two books were written about it in 2021. One from a high level Jewish source, Idan Dershowitz, in "The Valediction of Moses", and the Christian account by Ross Nichols, in "The Moses Scroll." I have the basics on it at my web site, and of the two books, The Valediction of Moses is the better book - but it's over 100 dollars to get a copy.

See: Onediscipletoanother organization. I think it is the key to unlocking all the religious discord today for those willing to honor it. It's all jbasically common sense - cause and effect - not about being more holy than anyone else, or believing or faithing harder than your neighbor - it's totally about honest, equity, and true justice.

The Shapira Scroll appears to have been a forgery. At least that is what the opinion of it was at the that it was released to the market:

Shapira Scroll - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

At any rate it no longer exists so forgery or not it is a moot point.

 

[Sargonski]

The scroll is called the "Shapira scroll" - two books were written about it in 2021. One from a high level Jewish source, Idan Dershowitz, in "The Valediction of Moses", and the Christian account by Ross Nichols, in "The Moses Scroll." I have the basics on it at my web site, and of the two books, The Valediction of Moses is the better book - but it's over 100 dollars to get a copy.

I think it is the key to unlocking all the religious discord today for those willing to honor it. It's all jbasically common sense - cause and effect - not about being more holy than anyone else, or believing or faithing harder than your neighbor - it's totally about honest, equity, and true justice. http://www.onediscipletoanother.org

KK .. thx for the reference .. but what is your point here --- we have some scrolls from a date unknown written on leather .. purporting to be from the God of Moses .. .. wisdom literature .. like proverbs .. ecclesiastes .. add this one to the list .. "equity and true Justice". .. but why not include the God of Righteousness and Justice .. into the equation .. while on the topic of the Wisdom of Solomon after all (as opposed to the Wisdom of Moses)

You are searching for Sophia .. that lovely Goddess in the Garden .. who blessed humans with knowledge .. Wise old Primordial Dragon .. thrust down to the earth .. sacrificing herself for the sake of man .. thus thrust out of the Pantheon ... her presence in the Divine Trinity removed.

Eve -- is the "Star" of the Garden of Eden story .. for those who know how to read that story. You not among the privy .. yet .. the Hiram Key not yet discovered .. until now ... >>>> Jerusalem <<<< City of Peace .. Salem = Peace. A Canaanite city at the time of Abraham .. with a Canaanite Priest King named "Melchi-Zedek" The King named after the Patron God of the city of Peace "Zedek" -- Twin Gods of Righteousness and Justice ...

Abraham submits to this great Priest of the Order "Zedek" - tithes 10% of the spoils .. and together worship the "Most High" God of the Pantheon .. not just of the Canaanites .. but of every nation in the neighborhood .. and every people .. from the Hitties to Babylon .. and in worship of this God Abe and the Priest of the Most High break bread and drink wine ..

It is no surprise .. that Jesus adopts this Ritual .. the Bread and Wine .. as Jesus is a High Priest Forever of the Order Melchi-Zedek
.. a line going back to David .. also a Priest of the Order Zedek .. and before David took Jerusalem "Adoni-Zedek" was King ~1000 BC .. go back 800 years to 1800 BC and we have Melchi-Zedek .

 

[Subduction Zone]

KK .. thx for the reference .. but what is your point here --- we have some scrolls from a date unknown written on leather .. purporting to be from the God of Moses .. .. wisdom literature .. like proverbs .. ecclesiastes .. add this one to the list .. "equity and true Justice". .. but why not include the God of Righteousness and Justice .. into the equation .. while on the topic of the Wisdom of Solomon after all (as opposed to the Wisdom of Moses)

You are searching for Sophia .. that lovely Goddess in the Garden .. who blessed humans with knowledge .. Wise old Primordial Dragon .. thrust down to the earth .. sacrificing herself for the sake of man .. thus thrust out of the Pantheon ... her presence in the Divine Trinity removed.

Eve -- is the "Star" of the Garden of Eden story .. for those who know how to read that story. You not among the privy .. yet .. the Hiram Key not yet discovered .. until now ... >>>> Jerusalem <<<< City of Peace .. Salem = Peace. A Canaanite city at the time of Abraham .. with a Canaanite Priest King named "Melchi-Zedek" The King named after the Patron God of the city of Peace "Zedek" -- Twin Gods of Righteousness and Justice ...

Abraham submits to this great Priest of the Order "Zedek" - tithes 10% of the spoils .. and together worship the "Most High" God of the Pantheon .. not just of the Canaanites .. but of every nation in the neighborhood .. and every people .. from the Hitties to Babylon .. and in worship of this God Abe and the Priest of the Most High break bread and drink wine ..

It is no surprise .. that Jesus adopts this Ritual .. the Bread and Wine .. as Jesus is a High Priest Forever of the Order Melchi-Zedek
.. a line going back to David .. also a Priest of the Order Zedek .. and before David took Jerusalem "Adoni-Zedek" was King ~1000 BC .. go back 800 years to 1800 BC and we have Melchi-Zedek .

The problem is that we do not have those scrolls. When the owner of them tried to sell them in 1878 they were declared to be frauds. They brought him almost nothing when sold at auction and they do not seem to exist any more. That means that fraud or not we can never know what they said aside from the records of just a few of their verses that were supposedly interpreted.

 

[YoursTrue]

I have cited this before:. The problem is in past exchanges you simply deny my academic references as Academia vs the Bible, I do not wxpwct anything difference in this exchange. I cite modern academic references.

Onerview. which I will follow up with specific archaeological finds:
This reference has a list of academic references. The conclusions are no different form previous academic references that documented that the Pentateuch was compiled after 600 BEC as Judaism became Monotheistic.

Compiling the scrolls is not the same as writing them. So we know there were other writings that were respected but not compiled or organized.

 

[shunyadragon]

Compiling the scrolls is not the same as writing them. So we know there were other writings that were respected but not compiled or organized.

Let's put it this way: There is absolutely no evidence of anything written concerning the Pentateuch before 600 BC. The Hebrew language did not exist before 800 BCE. The evidence indicates it was compiled mostly from Smerian, Babylonian, Canaanite/ Ugarit sources.

You cannot provide one shred of written text before this.

 

[Eli G]

Evidently, many people talk too much without knowing a thing on what they talk about.

David told Solomon:

1 Kings 2:1 When the time of David’s death drew near, he gave his son Solʹo·mon these instructions: 2 “I am about to die. Therefore, be strong and prove yourself a man. 3 You must keep your obligation to Jehovah your God by walking in his ways and by observing his statutes, his commandments, his judgments, and his reminders as they are written in the Law of Moses; then you will succeed in everything you do and everywhere you turn. 4 And Jehovah will carry out his promise that he made concerning me: ‘If your sons pay attention to their way by walking faithfully before me with all their heart and soul, there will never fail to be a man of your line sitting on the throne of Israel.’

In archaeological excavations in Israel, allusions to the house of David have been discovered.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/502019226?q=%22the+house+of+David%22&p=par

 

[Subduction Zone]

Evidently, many people talk too much without knowing a thing on what they talk about.

David told Solomon:

1 Kings 2:1 When the time of David’s death drew near, he gave his son Solʹo·mon these instructions: 2 “I am about to die. Therefore, be strong and prove yourself a man. 3 You must keep your obligation to Jehovah your God by walking in his ways and by observing his statutes, his commandments, his judgments, and his reminders as they are written in the Law of Moses; then you will succeed in everything you do and everywhere you turn. 4 And Jehovah will carry out his promise that he made concerning me: ‘If your sons pay attention to their way by walking faithfully before me with all their heart and soul, there will never fail to be a man of your line sitting on the throne of Israel.’

In archaeological excavations in Israel, allusions to the house of David have been discovered.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/502019226?q=%22the+house+of+David%22&p=par

Yes, there probably was a King David. I do not think that anyone has disputed that. It is the myths and the legends of the Bible about him that are disputed.

 

[Eli G]

All you say is trashable. That's why I put you on ignore.
Now you got the whole night to talk about if I ignore you or not, and the rest of automata many more to talk about what is the ignore list.
Good bye.

 

[Subduction Zone]

All you say is trashable. That's why I put you on ignore.
Now you got the whole night to talk about if I ignore you or not, and the rest of automata many more to talk about what is the ignore list.
Good bye.

And you break the Ninth Commandment again. When you decide to follow your own Bible why don't you flag me.

 

[Sargonski]

The problem is that we do not have those scrolls. When the owner of them tried to sell them in 1878 they were declared to be frauds. They brought him almost nothing when sold at auction and they do not seem to exist any more. That means that fraud or not we can never know what they said aside from the records of just a few of their verses that were supposedly interpreted.

Don't care much about who wrote the scrolls nor when .. the question is how does assess the content ... which .. by what little information we were given -- reads like Proverbs .. or other "Wisdom" literature --

you want to know if this comes from "GOD" - "God" - "god" or the evil one ... which includes the hands of men .. the Devil's minions if you are into the Good vs Evil paradigm .. the claim of the thread some nonsense about needing God to give you the interpretation .. as if the Most High gives a hoot about you such that they gonna intervene and put a lightning bolt of "understanding" through your brain.

Is not how it works. To understand and interpret scripture .. one needs to understand not what some idiot human living in the 21st century who thinks he needs God to ring him up to understand scripture thinks .. nor anyone else in the 21st century for that matter .. It is not your or my interpretation that is important .. whether God gave it to you or not.

The only opinion that matters .. say on the question "What is the assembly of EL in Psalm 82"


YHWH stands in[b] the assembly of El;[c] in the midst of the Gods [d] he renders judgment.

How the frick do you interpret this one ? and what is the only opinion that matters ? Answer - the Israelite -or other person .. listening to this hymn in the Temple of YHWH at the time of Solomon ~ 950 BC.

So it is not God who needs to give us the interpretation .. but our Moabite Friend worshiping in one of YHWH's numerous Temples .. or a Jesubite .. or an Edomite .. or a Hittite .. and Assyrian or Babylonian .. .. OH .. and don't leave out the Phonecians .. they were really important .. Solomon had at least 10 or 20 Phonician wives and a few Phonician concubines.

Every single one of these individuals knows what the "Assembly of EL" is .. to a person .. part of their religious belief - and they know the rest of the story .. and the creation story .. and the identity of the Serpent in the Garden.. to a person .. literate and illiterate alike .. no interpretation from God required.

So .. tell me .. what is the "Assembly of EL" ? .. and why is this song really problematic for the 3 Abrahamic Religions ..and after you are done .. click on the footnote to see how modern Biblical Scholarship interprets the Assembly of EL .. and see if the two match !