Understanding the holy scriptures is impossible unless God gives you the interpretation

[jimb]

You said: God is in Jesus and Jesus is in God.

I said: What do you think that MEANS?
Do you think that means that God is living inside of Jesus and Jesus is living inside of God?
If that is what you believe then you have reached the peak of absurdity.

Maybe that could be taken as a personal insult, but you said that another perfect example of a personal insult is this sentence:
I said: "The Bible does not SAY anything because it does not talk."

That was in no way a personal insult because it had nothing to do with YOU.
Then you said: That is just foolishness!
I could take that as a personal insult, if I was defensive like you are.

Why is that foolishness? Does the Bible talk? What happens when we read the Bible?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yes, it is time for you to end the discussion whenever you cannot reply to what people posted, questions and other content.
That is called deflection.

What does it mean when someone is deflecting?

to attack or blame another person rather than accepting criticism or blame for your own actions: When someone deflects, they are trying to feel less guilty, avoid negative consequences, and put the blame on others. The guilty person deflects their guilt onto the person who is accusing them or onto another person.Mar 20, 2024

DEFLECT | definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary​

Do you know how I know this is not just something "I" did to you?
I know because you did the same thing with someone else. You claimed that he insulted you when he did not insult you.

Who created all things: God or the Son?

This is a roundabout way of claiming that Jesus is not God. God exists in three forms: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. One of these is visible: Jesus Christ; the other two are not. God exists in one form, as God. Jesus was a Manifestation of God. The Holy Spirit is the Bounty of...

www.religiousforums.com

And so you must continue with insults. "It is time for you to end the discussion whenever you cannot reply to what people posted, questions and other content".

You are attacking rather than accepting criticism or blame for your own actions. You are being pointlessly confrontational.

As a result, I am putting you on "ignore". => GROW UP!!! <=

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Why are there so many conflicting interpretations by those who claim to have the correct interpretation. What is the objective criteria for determining the correct interpretation?

According to the Bible, the Holy Spirit indwells the followers of Jesus (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30), not only confirming to them that they belong to God and are saved (Romans 8:15-17; 10:9-13; 1 Corinthians 12:13), but also giving them spiritual gifts (1 Corinthians 12:11) and spiritual discernment to properly understand the Bible (1 Corinthians 2:14). However, if the Holy Spirit resides within all of the followers of Jesus and gives them spiritual discernment to properly understand the Bible, then wouldn't Christians from all over the world agree on a single interpretation of the Bible? I think that is reasonable.

In my opinion, if Christians had spiritual discernment from the Holy Spirit to properly understand the Bible, then the Greek Orthodox Bible (with a 79-book canon), the Catholic Bible (with a 73-book canon), and the various Protestant Bible translations (with a 66-book canon) would not exist. There would be a single correct interpretation of the Bible and one unified universal Christian Church. And as I pointed out in a previous post in this thread (post #1,286):

If the Bible were clear enough for Christians to agree on a proper interpretation, then they wouldn't be as divided as they are and have been since the beginning of Christianity. There would be one unified universal Christian church, not Messianic Jews, Anglicans, Catholics, Orthodox (Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox), and a vast assortment of Protestants: Baptist (First Baptist, Second Baptist, Southern Baptist, Reformed Baptist, Primitive Baptist, Anabaptist, Freewill Baptist), Methodist, Lutheran, Pentecostal, Mennonite, Mormon, Church of Christ, Presbyterian, Seventh-day Adventist, Non-Denominational, The Assemblies of God, Church of God, Church of the Nazarene, and hundreds of other Protestant churches.

 

[Trailblazer]

And so you must continue with insults. "It is time for you to end the discussion whenever you cannot reply to what people posted, questions and other content".

You are attacking rather than accepting criticism or blame for your own actions. You are being pointlessly confrontational.

I said:
"It is time for you to end the discussion whenever you cannot reply to what people posted, questions and other content".

That was not an insult!

There were no insults in that post. You are doing exactly what you are accusing me of, and that is called psychological projection.

Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.[1] For example, a person who is habitually rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude. It incorporates blame shifting.

Psychological projection - Wikipedia

As a result, I am putting you on "ignore". => GROW UP!!! <=

And GROW UP!!! is not a personal insult?
That is a good example of Psychological projection.
You accuse ME of insulting YOU when it is YOU who is insulting ME.

Please do put me on Ignore. You told me you were going to do that a few days ago but you didn't.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

And GROW UP!!! is not a personal insult?
That is a good example of Psychological projection.
You accuse ME of insulting YOU when it is YOU who is insulting ME.

Please do put me on Ignore. You told me you were going to do that a few days ago but you didn't.

Typically, when someone puts another member on ignore, they don't continue to respond to that person's posts, as the poster you quoted did with you. In one of his prior posts in this thread, he disgruntledly declared that he was putting you on ignore, but he still responded to your posts. And what's the point of someone publicly proclaiming that they're placing another member on ignore? That strikes me as petty and attention-seeking. I don't think it's mature.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

There were no insults in that post. You are doing exactly what you are accusing me of, and that is called psychological projection.

Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.[1] For example, a person who is habitually rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude. It incorporates blame shifting.

Psychological projection - Wikipedia

And you would know since you have a MA degree in psychology.

What if we accepted each others Religion?

Yes, you are correct in that, and thanks for understanding the point. Some people are just better representatives of their faith than others. FYI, I think you responded to that post before I finished editing it so you might want to go back and read what I wrote. ;)

www.religiousforums.com

 

[shunyadragon]

I don't believe that there is an objective criteria for determining the correct interpretation. The Bible contains many concepts that are spiritual in nature, i.e., they can only be understood spiritually. To put that spiritual understanding into "correct" natural understanding is difficult, and expressing that understanding verbally compounds the problem.

This is the problem I wanted to bring up front re thread title. This is compounded by scripture compiled, edited and redacted well after the events took place, In the case of the Pentateuch hundreds of years after the fact.

 

[shunyadragon]

If the Bible were clear enough for Christians to agree on a proper interpretation, then they wouldn't be as divided as they are and have been since the beginning of Christianity. There would be one unified universal Christian church, not Messianic Jews, Anglicans, Catholics, Orthodox (Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox), and a vast assortment of Protestants: Baptist (First Baptist, Second Baptist, Southern Baptist, Reformed Baptist, Primitive Baptist, Anabaptist, Freewill Baptist), Methodist, Lutheran, Pentecostal, Mennonite, Mormon, Church of Christ, Presbyterian, Seventh-day Adventist, Non-Denominational, The Assemblies of God, Church of God, Church of the Nazarene, and hundreds of other Protestant churches.

This is the problem I wanted to bring up front re thread title. This is compounded by scripture compiled, edited and redacted well after the events took place, In the case of the Pentateuch hundreds of years after the fact without provenance and known authorship..

 

[AdamjEdgar]

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The explaination of this text is simple...anyone who knows how to cross reference with a concordance can easily find its meaning. The bible always interprets itself...its meaning is below.

John 14:17
the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him, for He abides with you and will be in you.

1 Corinthians 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

1 Corinthians 1:21
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know Him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

1 Corinthians 1:23
but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,

1 Corinthians 1:25
For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.

Natural man is a bad translation...the text is really talking about those who aren't saved...the lost. Its man who only listens to his carnal nature that cannot understand things of the Spirit...not those genuinly searching for God or the saved christian.

 

[Trailblazer]

The explanation of this text is simple...anyone who knows how to cross reference with a concordance can easily find its meaning.

How does cross-referencing with a concordance determine the meaning of the verses?

The bible always interprets itself...its meaning is below.

John 14:17
the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him, for He abides with you and will be in you.

1 Corinthians 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

1 Corinthians 1:21
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know Him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

1 Corinthians 1:23
but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,

1 Corinthians 1:25
For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.

So what is the meaning of the verses above?
For example:

John 14:17
the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him, for He abides with you and will be in you.

Who is the Spirit of truth? Why can't the world receive Him or know Him? What does it mean to say that the Spirit of truth abides with the disciples and will be in them? Does it mean that the Spirit of truth is living in the physical bodies of the disciples?

Natural man is a bad translation...the text is really talking about those who aren't saved...the lost. Its man who only listens to his carnal nature that cannot understand things of the Spirit...not those genuinly searching for God or the saved christian.

Who are the saved and the unsaved, and why are they saved or unsaved?

I will have you know that most Christians listen to their carnal nature and commit fornication.

 

[jimb]

According to the Bible, the Holy Spirit indwells the followers of Jesus (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30), not only confirming to them that they belong to God and are saved (Romans 8:15-17; 10:9-13; 1 Corinthians 12:13), but also giving them spiritual gifts (1 Corinthians 12:11) and spiritual discernment to properly understand the Bible (1 Corinthians 2:14). However, if the Holy Spirit resides within all of the followers of Jesus and gives them spiritual discernment to properly understand the Bible, then wouldn't Christians from all over the world agree on a single interpretation of the Bible? I think that is reasonable.

In my opinion, if Christians had spiritual discernment from the Holy Spirit to properly understand the Bible, then the Greek Orthodox Bible (with a 79-book canon), the Catholic Bible (with a 73-book canon), and the various Protestant Bible translations (with a 66-book canon) would not exist. There would be a single correct interpretation of the Bible and one unified universal Christian Church. And as I pointed out in a previous post in this thread (post #1,286):

If the Bible were clear enough for Christians to agree on a proper interpretation, then they wouldn't be as divided as they are and have been since the beginning of Christianity. There would be one unified universal Christian church, not Messianic Jews, Anglicans, Catholics, Orthodox (Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox), and a vast assortment of Protestants: Baptist (First Baptist, Second Baptist, Southern Baptist, Reformed Baptist, Primitive Baptist, Anabaptist, Freewill Baptist), Methodist, Lutheran, Pentecostal, Mennonite, Mormon, Church of Christ, Presbyterian, Seventh-day Adventist, Non-Denominational, The Assemblies of God, Church of God, Church of the Nazarene, and hundreds of other Protestant churches.

Do you explain things perfectly clearly? I doubt it.

The Bible is spiritual literature. While believers may understand spiritual truths from it, that is altogether different from being able to communicate those spiritual truths to others, especially those people who haven't received the Holy Spirit.

 

[jimb]

Typically, when someone puts another member on ignore, they don't continue to respond to that person's posts, as the poster you quoted did with you. In one of his prior posts in this thread, he disgruntledly declared that he was putting you on ignore, but he still responded to your posts. And what's the point of someone publicly proclaiming that they're placing another member on ignore? That strikes me as petty and attention-seeking. I don't think it's mature.

Putting someone on "ignore" means that you can read their posts or not. I don't bother with indulging people who have nothing of value to say. That includes you.

 

[jimb]

This is the problem I wanted to bring up front re thread title. This is compounded by scripture compiled, edited and redacted well after the events took place, In the case of the Pentateuch hundreds of years after the fact.

That is a true statement. The idea is that the Biblical authors were perfectly inspired by God to write what they wrote. Of course, the originals don't exist, and those texts that are available are not complete and sometimes conflict with each other. Compound that with translating the source documents into the receptor language and it's not hard to tell why there are differences between Bibles.

However, the Holy Spirit can still communicate Biblical truths to those who "have an ear to hear".

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't bother with indulging people who have nothing of value to say. That includes you.

Talk about an insult.
FYI, @Sgt. Pepper has a lot of valuable things to say about many things, particularly about the Bible and Christianity, and she is very familiar with the Bible and Christianity since she was a Christian for 30 years.

 

[shunyadragon]

The explaination of this text is simple...anyone who knows how to cross reference with a concordance can easily find its meaning. The bible always interprets itself...its meaning is below.

John 14:17
the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him, for He abides with you and will be in you.

1 Corinthians 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

1 Corinthians 1:21
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know Him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

1 Corinthians 1:23
but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,

1 Corinthians 1:25
For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.

Natural man is a bad translation...the text is really talking about those who aren't saved...the lost. Its man who only listens to his carnal nature that cannot understand things of the Spirit...not those genuinly searching for God or the saved christian.

This does not address the problems of the history of the text and the history of Christianity.

Why are there so many conflicting interpretations by those who claim to have the correct interpretation. What is the objective criteria for determining the correct interpretation?

This is the problem I wanted to bring up front re thread title. This is compounded by scripture compiled, edited and redacted well after the events took place, In the case of the Pentateuch hundreds of years after the fact without provenance and known authorship..

 

[Trailblazer]

Why are there so many conflicting interpretations by those who claim to have the correct interpretation. What is the objective criteria for determining the correct interpretation?

I do not think that there is an objective criteria. I think interpretation is subjective, and that is why there are so many differing interpretations.

 

[jimb]

This does not address the problems of the history of the text and the history of Christianity.

Why are there so many conflicting interpretations by those who claim to have the correct interpretation. What is the objective criteria for determining the correct interpretation?

This is the problem I wanted to bring up front re thread title. This is compounded by scripture compiled, edited and redacted well after the events took place, In the case of the Pentateuch hundreds of years after the fact without provenance and known authorship..

Clearly you don't understand spiritual interpretation. There are three ways to interpret something: subjectively, objectively, and spiritually.

 

[shunyadragon]

That is a true statement. The idea is that the Biblical authors were perfectly inspired by God to write what they wrote. Of course, the originals don't exist, and those texts that are available are not complete and sometimes conflict with each other. Compound that with translating the source documents into the receptor language and it's not hard to tell why there are differences between Bibles.

However, the Holy Spirit can still communicate Biblical truths to those who "have an ear to hear".

I have to give you an OK, if this what you believe taking the limitations I previously described.

I prefer the Universal perspective that there are many conflicting subjective beliefs beyond even the Abrahamic religions. each beleiving their interpretation as the only one, Based on this I consider each religion and belied system to be what is believed in the culture and time it was writen concerning their relationship to a 'Source' some call Gods. I believe that regardless of whether God or Gods exist all these religons and belief systems represent the spiritual evolution of humanity that in the Universal perspective of the evolution of our universe, and many planets with intelligent life.

I believe in a universal 'Source' some call Gods, but even that is a subjective claim.

I do not believe there is any rational or logical reason that I should accept any one of the conflicting thousands of claims to know the "truth," simply based on the fallible human assertions of humans claiming they know that is the "truth".

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Talk about an insult.
FYI, @Sgt. Pepper has a lot of valuable things to say about many things, particularly about the Bible and Christianity, and she is very familiar with the Bible and Christianity since she was a Christian for 30 years.

That may be his personal opinion of me, but it's irrelevant to me. So I'll give it all the consideration I think his opinion deserves, which is none. The rude behavior we are seeing is what I've come to expect from obnoxious and judgmental Christians that I either encounter online or in person. I've met more non-Christians who behave like Christians than those who are Christians. As Gandhi said, "I like your Christ; I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” I will say, however, that I'd rather see their true colors, as seen in the posts that you quoted, than have them be two-faced backstabbers.

 

[Trailblazer]

The rude behavior we are seeing is what I've come to expect from obnoxious and judgmental Christians that I either encounter online or in person. I've met more non-Christians who behave like Christians than those who are. I will say, however, that I'd rather see their true colors, as seen in the posts you quoted, than have them be two-faced backstabbers.

I have to say that the rude behavior we are seeing is not what I have seen much of on this forum for a long time, from Christians or non-Christians.
I run into a rude atheist and a rude Christian occasionally, but not often. Those people don't usually last long on a well-managed forum like this.
I thank God for the Christians who live like Jesus taught them to, and many do, those like my new friend @walt.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I have to say that the rude behavior we are seeing is not what I have seen much of on this forum for a long time, from Christians or non-Christians.
I run into a rude atheist and a rude Christian occasionally, but not often. Those people don't usually last long on a well-managed forum like this.
I thank God for the Christians who live like Jesus taught them to, and many do, those like my new friend @walt.

Not in my experience on this forum. In general, atheists and pagans are more rational and respectful than most Christians I've interacted with on RF. I've been on this forum for two and a half years, and I've rarely had an atheist or pagan resort to calling me disparaging names or posting false accusations against me. My experiences on RF mirror my experiences with atheists, pagans, and Christians in real life as well. Based on my experiences on RF and in real life, I believe that both atheists and pagans I either know or have encountered online are far more Christian than the vast majority of the Christians I either know or have encountered online. I would say that in general, it is the atheists and pagans who are the ones who genuinely embody the primary moral teachings and virtues of Christianity, such as love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control (Galatians 5:22–23), whereas the vast majority of Christians I've met are the polar opposite (Galatians 5:19–21). And, to be quite honest with you, the more I interact with these Christians, the more determined I am to stay away from Christianity. In my opinion, they are very good at convincing people to utterly reject Christianity. Since I became a Wiccan, no Wiccans or other pagans I've met have ever treated me unfairly. I've rarely had a problem with atheists, either.