Understanding the holy scriptures is impossible unless God gives you the interpretation

[2ndpillar]

Any religious claims as to what you believe concerning God and what you call Yeshua. There is a lack of provence in scripture to support any of the variations of Judaism, Islam and Christianity. All these beliefs only have a basis in "faith" and not a consistent foundation in scripture.

So, says you, whose god is science and dogmatic opinions, which changes daily. You have yet to point out any inconsistency in what I believe, or even what I believe. It may be that I have a greater insight with regard to science and scripture than your parroted views.

As for the provenance (origin) of Judaism, Islam and Christianity, in the form of the "book", referenced by Islam, the Jews and Christianity, well, that would be with Genesis 1, the creation of Adam, and is basically the same with all three religions you mentioned. As for sects, the "Christians" stand on Peter and Paul, in which Paul is a predominate false prophet, and the foundation of their faith. As for the Muslims, their 8th & 9th century narrative was written by the Persians, written in and around Persia, and the contents of the Koran, supposedly produced by way of an angel of light, was purloined from Persian, Christian, and the Jewish writings. As for science, the father of science, Newton, calculated the start of the 7th day, the 7th millennium, the day of judgment, as starting around the mid 2030s, but then, his information was probably based on the Gregorian calendar, which is a false starting point. Based on the time of death of Herod the Great, it should be off by around 6 or 7 years.

 

[2ndpillar]

The Guardian of the Baha'i Faith, Shoghi Effendi, translated the Writings of Baha'u'llah.
He went to England to study English so He could better translate the Writings from Persian and Arabic into English.

From his studies Shoghi Effendi determined that King James English was the best form to portray Persian and Arabic to English speakers.

Apparently Persian and Arabic have a form of poetic prose that is hard to portray to English speakers. King James English must in a small way convey some of that poetic prose experienced by Persian and Arabic speakers.

Shoghi Effendi said that the future may see different translations.

I know that everyone does not like the KJ English, but I like it, although sometimes it is a little difficult to understand what He was saying..

Baha died in the late1900 century. The KJ bible was written in the 17th century (1611 A.D.). England didn't teach or use 17th century English in the late 19th century.

 

[shunyadragon]

So, says you, whose god is science and dogmatic opinions, which changes daily. You have yet to point out any inconsistency in what I believe, or even what I believe. It may be that I have a greater insight with regard to science and scripture than your parroted views.

God is not remotely addressed in science by definition Your emotional aggressive abusive attitude is not constructive . You misrepresent science. Science does not change every day. I responded to this false view of science, The foundation of science does not change. What changes is when additional information advances the knowledge of science in understanding the nature of our physical existence,

As for the provenance (origin) of Judaism, Islam and Christianity, in the form of the "book", referenced by Islam, the Jews and Christianity, well, that would be with Genesis 1, the creation of Adam, and is basically the same with all three religions you mentioned. As for sects, the "Christians" stand on Peter and Paul, in which Paul is a predominate false prophet, and the foundation of their faith. As for the Muslims, their 8th & 9th century narrative was written by the Persians, written in and around Persia, and the contents of the Koran, supposedly produced by way of an angel of light, was purloined from Persian, Christian, and the Jewish writings. As for science, the father of science, Newton, calculated the start of the 7th day, the 7th millennium, the day of judgment, as starting around the mid 2030s, but then, his information was probably based on the Gregorian calendar, which is a false starting point, based on the time of death of Herod the Great, and is off by around 6 or 7 years.

Yes without provence in basic English language and known academic historical and archaeological evidence,. ALL of the above "Books" are without provenance in authorship, time and origin.Both Islam and Christianity refer back to the Pentateuch, which is without provenance of authorship, time and place of anything before 600 BCE.

 

[2ndpillar]

The Guardian of the Baha'i Faith, Shoghi Effendi, translated the Writings of Baha'u'llah.
He went to England to study English so He could better translate the Writings from Persian and Arabic into English.

From his studies Shoghi Effendi determined that King James English was the best form to portray Persian and Arabic to English speakers.

Apparently Persian and Arabic have a form of poetic prose that is hard to portray to English speakers. King James English must in a small way convey some of that poetic prose experienced by Persian and Arabic speakers.

Shoghi Effendi said that the future may see different translations.

I know that everyone does not like the KJ English, but I like it, although sometimes it is a little difficult to understand what He was saying..

Baha died in the late1900 century. The KJ bible was written in the 17th century (1611 A.D.). England didn't teach or use 17th century English in the late 19th century.

 

[2ndpillar]

What changes is when additional information advances the knowledge of science in understanding the nature of our physical existence,

Well, the underlying nature of science seems to be changing daily. Now we have a real Universe, and an unreal Universe. Next time science will be telling you that NASA is funding a transporter and the next step in computers will be computers working in an unreal Universe. Science apparently doesn't understand the nature of "our physical existence". They apparently don't understand the "god particle", or how to look at the physical Universe, versus the unreal Universe. Was Bohr correct, or was Einstein correct? I don't think you know? Your "science" doesn't know either.

 

[2ndpillar]

Yes without provence in basic English language and known academic historical and archaeological evidence,. ALL of the above "Books" are without provenance in authorship, time and origin.Both Islam and Christianity refer back to the Pentateuch, which is without provenance of authorship, time and place of anything before 600 BCE.

What do you think your provenance of 600 BC is? The Epic of Gilgamesh, from Ur, the home of Abraham, which includes Adam (first man) and the Flood, goes back to 2100 BC. Old Testament - Wikipedia

 

[Elihoenai]

Simply said, according to all Christian denominations, God is the same in both OT and NT and does not change. If God ordered sacrifices (Leviticus 4:35, 5:10, 16:1-6) and Jesus claimed that nothing will ever change from the Law, then either the OT, or Paul is lying. Jesus could never had told Paul, as he claimed, that the Law is needless and evil. Whether you accept it or not, is irrelevant.
As for the "Inner/Esoteric and Outer/Exoteric meaning" is just a propaganda to justify the huge contradictions in the Bible. Apologists are simply trying to find excuses to justify their knowingly false conclusion. See message #1173

How you are living your life determines what you see in the Bible. If you are Living/Dying a Carnal Life/Death you will see Carnality in the Bible. In Carnality it's Impossible to Reconcile what appears to you contradictions. This means a Non-Christian cannot Really understand the Bible apart from the Dead Letter Literal and Historical Interpretation that is accessible to all. In the same way, so-called Carnal Christians cannot Really understand the Bible.

I Am Christian Gnostic.


Gnosticism

Gnosticism (from Ancient Greek: γνωστικός, romanized: gnōstikós, Koine Greek: [ɣnostiˈkos], 'having knowledge') is a collection of religious ideas and systems that coalesced in the late 1st century AD among Jewish and early Christian sects. These various groups emphasized personal spiritual knowledge (gnosis) above the proto-orthodox teachings, traditions, and authority of religious institutions.

Gnosticism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Gnosticism, the Enduring Heresy

 

[Ajax]

How you are living your life determines what you see in the Bible. If you are Living/Dying a Carnal Life/Death you will see Carnality in the Bible. In Carnality it's Impossible to Reconcile what appears to you contradictions. This means a Non-Christian cannot Really understand the Bible apart from the Dead Letter Literal and Historical Interpretation that is accessible to all. In the same way, so-called Carnal Christians cannot Really understand the Bible.

I couldn't disagree more. There are good and righteous people who are atheists. And there are religious people who fully accept the Bible and are horrid. Also there is nothing to understand beyond what is written in the Bible. After all Christianity teaches that “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." and "the wisdom of this world is foolishness to God".

 

[wellwisher]

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The natural man is more connected to instinct and impulse and mutant variations thereof. He is more reactionary to his senses. If he sees a pretty girl, he turns on, and becomes a dog running his game. He is not going take a night off and not drink, but his friends show up with some beer, he will drink.

The spirit is more connected to the thinking man. He often inhibits the natural flow of his inner natural man, so he can question his motivations. Why so I do that, and is there a better way? If I do that, what does the other person feel? How could I act, so I can be true to my deterministic natural self, while sharing only positive things with others?

The natural man says, "you think too much. Life should be fun, so let us go chase some skirts and have a few beers. You can think all you want tomorrow." That was the story of my younger life. Like Jesus, I enjoyed the company of the natural sinners; balance. I would like to think I also helped to balance them. I learned not to discuss things with those who did not want to know; do not preach, but try to teach.

 

[Elihoenai]

I couldn't disagree more. There are good and righteous people who are atheists. And there are religious people who fully accept the Bible and are horrid. Also there is nothing to understand beyond what is written in the Bible. After all Christianity teaches that “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." and "the wisdom of this world is foolishness to God".

Romans 10:3

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Romans 14:14

14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.


People have different Standards of Righteousness. What one person Deems as Righteous is Sickening Wickedness to another. Everybody is not adhering to the same Moral Standards Within or Without Christendom.

Only those Reckoning something to be Sickening Wickedness to that person it is Sickening Wickedness. Sin is Not Imputed where it is Not Acknowledged as such.

 

[2ndpillar]

Romans 10:3

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Romans 14:14

14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.


People have different Standards of Righteousness. What one person Deems as Righteous is Sickening Wickedness to another. Everybody is not adhering to the same Moral Standards Within or Without Christendom.

Only those Reckoning something to be Sickening Wickedness to that person it is Sickening Wickedness. Sin is Not Imputed where it is Not Acknowledged as such.

Using the quips from the false prophet Paul is not going to make your case. Here is a good quip from Paul.

Romans 8:20-21 "But if I am doing the very thing I do not wish, I am no longer the one doing it, but the sin which indwells in me."...evil is present in me".

Paul is born of the devil, and subsequently sins (1 John 3:8). "the one who practices sin is of the devil".

 

[Trailblazer]

In Carnality it's Impossible to Reconcile what appears to you contradictions. This means a Non-Christian cannot Really understand the Bible apart from the Dead Letter Literal and Historical Interpretation that is accessible to all. In the same way, so-called Carnal Christians cannot Really understand the Bible.

What contradictions?
What do you mean by Carnality?
What is a Carnal Christian?
Why can't a non-Christian be non-carnal?

 

[Elihoenai]

What contradictions?
What do you mean by Carnality?
What is a Carnal Christian?
Why can't a non-Christian be non-carnal?

Romans 8:13

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.


1) The Contradictions, apparently, between the Old Testament and New Testament that so-called Christians obfuscate by saying that that Prophecy has already been fulfilled and that that other Prophecy is for the future. Another example, that is old and not applicable to Christians. And another, that part of the New Testament is only for Israel and not for Gentiles.

2) Carnality is Works of the Flesh. For example, Recreational Sex.

3) From my Christian Gnostic perspective there is no such thing as a Carnal Christian. So-called Christians believe you can be Carnal and still be a Christian. Roman Catholicism, the Mother of so-called Christianity, is Carnal Religion.

4) A Non-Christian cannot be Non-Carnal because Real Christians are Spiritual. A Real Christian is Identified by what they Practice and Not the Label they place on themselves. There are Misleading Product Labels on the Shelves.

 

[2ndpillar]

Romans 8:13

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Supposedly, Paul wrote that, and he is dead and buried, supposedly outside the basilica of Paul. St Paul burial place 'confirmed'
According to Revelation 20:10, Paul will apparently never die, for his demon spirit (Rev 16:13) is thrown into the "lake of fire", and he will be tormented forever. On the other hand, his followers do not have eternal life, and will not be tormented forever, but on the other hand, most likely torment their family to some degree while they live. The saving grace is that the followers of Paul, will all die for their own iniquity (Jeremiah 31:30).

Jeremiah 31:30 Instead, everyone will die for their own sin; whoever eats sour grapes—their own teeth will be set on edge.

 

[Trailblazer]

Romans 8:13

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.


1) The Contradictions, apparently, between the Old Testament and New Testament that so-called Christians obfuscate by saying that that Prophecy has already been fulfilled and that that other Prophecy is for the future. Another example, that is old and not applicable to Christians. And another, that part of the New Testament is only for Israel and not for Gentiles.

2) Carnality is Works of the Flesh. For example, Recreational Sex.

3) From my Christian Gnostic perspective there is no such thing as a Carnal Christian. So-called Christians believe you can be Carnal and still be a Christian. Roman Catholicism, the Mother of so-called Christianity, is Carnal Religion.

4) A Non-Christian cannot be Non-Carnal because Real Christians are Spiritual. A Real Christian is Identified by what they Practice and Not the Label they place on themselves. There are Misleading Product Labels on the Shelves.

Sex is a real problem for Christians who are not married because they can't live without sex.
The way I view it as an outsider to Christianity is that Christians want to have their cake and eat it too.
This mainly refers to having sex whenever they want it with whomever they want it, recreational sex, living together before marriage, sex out of wedlock.

Christians believe that they are saved and forgiven by the blood of Jesus, but didn't Jesus say to go and sin no more?

 

[jimb]

Using the quips from the false prophet Paul is not going to make your case. Here is a good quip from Paul.

Romans 8:20-21 "But if I am doing the very thing I do not wish, I am no longer the one doing it, but the sin which indwells in me."...evil is present in me".

Paul is born of the devil, and subsequently sins (1 John 3:8). "the one who practices sin is of the devil".

This is such a a twisting of Scripture! How did you even come up with such garbage? (There are better words to describe it but are inappropriate for posting on this forum.)

What is your motive for posting this?

 

[2ndpillar]

This is such a a twisting of Scripture! How did you even come up with such garbage? (There are better words to describe it but are inappropriate for posting on this forum.)

What is your motive for posting this?

How is direct quoting from Romans 7:20-21 and 1 John a twisting of "scripture"? I did say Romans 8:20-21 on my post, which was simply a wrong numbering. Romans is not scripture, but the "message" of Paul, who is a spokesman for the "enemy"/"devil" Matthew 13:25, who spread the "tare seed" alongside the "good seed" in the same "field" (Matthew 13:24-49). I mean, John the Baptist already gave the message of "fleeing the wrath to come" (Mt 3:7), but the wrath is at the door, and it can't be overstated, and we are now at the "end of the age" (Mt 13:30). You are free to follow the false prophets, who Yeshua warned about (Mt 7:15 & Mt 24:11), but I don't think it will work out well for you. What is your motive for supporting the message of the "devil", which is lawlessness (Mt 13:37-42)? I see no long-term upside.

Matthew 13:25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way.

 

[Elihoenai]

Sex is a real problem for Christians who are not married because they can't live without sex.
The way I view it as an outsider to Christianity is that Christians want to have their cake and eat it too.
This mainly refers to having sex whenever they want it with whomever they want it, recreational sex, living together before marriage, sex out of wedlock.

Christians believe that they are saved and forgiven by the blood of Jesus, but didn't Jesus say to go and sin no more?

Great points made.

Yes, Food and Sex are the most Powerful Forces in Nature. Given that so-called Christians cannot live Without Sex it shows they are Really Practising Natural Religion. The Great Giants of the Christian Faith, Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ, John the Baptist and Paul the Apostle are Celibate.

Yes indeed, so-Called Christians Cherishes and Protects life in the Flesh while asserting that they have the Holy Spirit.

Meaning of Recreation Sex - Having Sex Without the Intention to Procreate. Examples, the man wearing a Condom or the woman taking the Pill.

Yes certainly, in Christendom Cheap Grace gives them License to commit all types of Sins and be forgiven.



Pornography: living in a sex-addicted society

Pornography: living in a sex-addicted society

Tim Dieppe reports on our recent Championing Sexual Purity in a Pornographic Age conference. Last week, Christian Concern organised a conference which focused on the pertinent issue of pornography. It was eye-opening, revealing, sobering and hopeful – all at the same time. Here are some of the...

christianconcern.com

I Am Celibate surrounded by Devoted Satanist Marquis de Sade Inverted Cross Practitioners. This is Ordained by Elohim/God.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, Food and Sex are the most Powerful Forces in Nature.

The difference between food and sex is that we need food to live but we do not need sex to live.
We only need sex if we are trying to have children, the purpose for which sex was created.

The sex instinct has been abused since most people use it for pleasure. They can pretend it is not for pleasure, that it is necessary in a loving relationship, but they are just fooling themselves. If they did not need it for pleasure then they could forego the orgasm.

Pornography: living in a sex-addicted society

Pornography: living in a sex-addicted society

Tim Dieppe reports on our recent Championing Sexual Purity in a Pornographic Age conference. Last week, Christian Concern organised a conference which focused on the pertinent issue of pornography. It was eye-opening, revealing, sobering and hopeful – all at the same time. Here are some of the...

christianconcern.com

According to my religion, we are living at the spiritual low water mark in history.

"In response to another letter enquiring if there were any legitimate way in which a person could express the sex instinct if, for some reason, he were unable to marry or if outer circumstances such as economic factors were to cause him to delay marriage, the Guardian's secretary wrote on his behalf:

'Concerning your question whether there are any legitimate forms of expression of the sex instinct outside of marriage: According to the Bahá'í Teachings no sexual act can be considered lawful unless performed between lawfully married persons. Outside of marital life there can be no lawful or healthy use of the sex impulse.'

"In another letter on the Guardian's behalf, also to an individual believer, the secretary writes:

'Amongst the many other evils afflicting society in this spiritual low water mark in history is the question of immorality, and over-emphasis of sex...'

"This indicates how the whole matter of sex and the problems related to it have assumed far too great an importance in the thinking of present-day society.

Lights of Guidance (second part): A Bahá'í Reference File, pp. 364-365

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The sex instinct has been abused since most people use it for pleasure. They can pretend it is not for pleasure, that it is necessary in a loving relationship, but they are just fooling themselves. If they did not need it for pleasure than they could forego the orgasm.

It is not uncommon for things that have evolved for one particular reason to later have evolved a secondary reason that exists alongside the original reason or even replaces it.

Yes, sex was originally designed for procreation. The fact that it is so pleasurable ensures the continued existence of human beings.

Yet it has noticeably also evolved the secondary purpose of bonding, just as you note above.