Pete in Panama
Well-Known Member
Thanks so much for you thoughtful discussion.I am always game Pete. I would offer since day I of the First Messenger, until the day of the Last Messenger, we have been and will be part of an ever advancing civilization.
That advancement goes through cycles and empires come and go, one can view the ruins of past empires. In this age this empire building has been mostly on a global scale and there is no doubt some of these empires will fall. The Colosseums of this day are the sporting arena's, the casino's, the horse racing tracks where obscenity with wealth is distributed.
So while civilization as a whole is ever advancing, the rise and fall of empires in this process is inevitable.
The destruction of cities is also inevitable, we can see the results on many current conflict fronts, they have already been part of the process where humanity as a whole is progressing towards a lasting unity, but empires are falling and will still fall. Tyrants will pass away to just rulers etc etc.
So let's start with this quote.
"When a cycle comes to a close, a new one is inaugurated, and the previous cycle, on account of the momentous events which transpire, vanishes so entirely from memory as to leave behind no record or trace. Thus, as you are aware, we have no record of twenty thousand years ago, even though … life on this earth is very ancient—not one or two hundred thousand, or even one or two million years old: It is ancient indeed, and the records and traces of ancient times have been entirely obliterated.
Each of the Manifestations of God has likewise a cycle wherein His religion and His law are in full force and effect. When His cycle is ended through the advent of a new Manifestation, a new cycle begins. Thus, cycles are inaugurated, concluded, and renewed, until a universal cycle is completed in the world of existence and momentous events transpire which efface every record and trace of the past …" – Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, newly revised edition, pp. 182-183.
There is no reason to conclude this will not transpire with the event that will cause the limbs of mankind to quake. However, whatever happens we know humanity is advancing towards a lasting peace, where something like Shoghi Effendi offered will unfold.
"....Some form of world super-state must needs be evolved, in whose favor all the nations of the world will have willingly ceded every claim to make war, certain rights to impose taxation and all rights to maintain armaments, except for purposes of maintaining internal order within their respective dominions. Such a state will have to include within its orbit an international executive adequate to enforce supreme and unchallengeable authority on every recalcitrant member of the commonwealth; a world parliament whose members shall be elected by the people in their respective countries and whose election shall be confirmed by their respective governments; and a supreme tribunal whose judgment will have a binding effect even in such cases where the parties concerned did not voluntarily agree to submit their case to its consideration". – The World Order of Baha’u’llah, p. 40.
Regards Tony
A couple of thoughts off the top of my head, I don't remember anywhere in the sacred texts that the destruction of all cities was inevitable and coming soon. There are lots of cities now that have existed for many thousands of years and it's easier to believe what's happened before will happen again. Another thought I first heard from Bora Cavalon is the fact that what Baha'u'llah said was the Word of God, Abdul Baha was infallible only in how he interpreted the words of Baha'u'llah, and Shoghi Effendi was infallible in how he translated the texts.
Many historians say that the Assyrian empire was the first empire, some say it was the Egyptians. My take is that virtually all empires ended in the 20th century. Sure, China, the U.S., the U.K. etc. have soldiers in many parts of the world but they're clearly not empires in the classical sense.
