US Government Shutdown

[Monk Of Reason]

I didn't mention Ryan; and what I said was completely coherent. Bye bye. :sleep:

I found it reasonable to assume what I did. If not then I apologize. I also didn't infer that you were not being coherent at the time however I had requested that you provide a coherent argument for Ryan's budget. However if you don't support his budget then I suppose good day to you sir and if you ever wish to debate feel free

 

[Falvlun]

Of course that is an opinion that may not be held by everyone. As some say "we do not have an revenue problem, we have a spending problem".
In addition we keep hearing from Obama supporters that the Democrats economic program is working. They tout the drop in the unemployment percentage as proof of this, when in actuality the real unemployment figures rose from 13.6% in Sept to 13.8% in Oct.

'Real' Unemployment: 13.8% | CNS News

The majority of jobs created under the Obama administration were part time or low paying or both. The data from July of this year is basically what the entire job growth under Obama is.

Part-Time Work Made Up More Than 65 Percent Of New Jobs Created In July
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/31/business/majority-of-new-jobs-pay-low-wages-study-finds.html?_r=0

Aw, you know that if Mitty was in office, the conservatives would be crowing over these economic numbers. The Dow is up, unemployment is down, new jobs are up. It would be "proof" of the power of the conservative economic plan!

 

[Falvlun]

All you have to look at is who the Democrats in the Senate have put forth to work with Congressman Ryan in the forthcoming budget talks and you will realize that the Democrats have absoultly zero intention of compromise.

Any conservative who supports what the GOP has done during Obama's tenure has lost the right to use the word "compromise", as it is apparent that they have no clue what it means.

 

[Falvlun]

I'm sorry guys, if your serious about economic equality we should have more skilled trade opportunities that pay 40 - 60 dollars an hour if you want families to buy a house, drive a nice car, have health insurance and other middle class stuff.

Lets leave the kiddie jobs with a wage that lets young folks get their foot in the door and open up opportunities for the older work force, (25 to 45) that consists of a real living wage.

This makes sense... until you realize that minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation.

Minimum wage used to be enough for people to support themselves. Raising minimum wage wouldn't be rewarding people above and beyond their usefulness to society. It would be compensating them for doing a job in a way commensurate with how society used to value such work.

This devaluing of minimum wage work has essentially stolen money earned by these workers, and put it into the pockets of companies, further fueling that vast income hike seen by the country's one and ten percent in the '80s.

 

[esmith]

Aw, you know that if Mitty was in office, the conservatives would be crowing over these economic numbers. The Dow is up, unemployment is down, new jobs are up. It would be "proof" of the power of the conservative economic plan!

Well, I believe that the figures show that unemployment is up, the majority of the jobs created are part-time. Also one of the major reasons the stock market is going up is companies are basically doing the same but with less people and the Fed is printing money keeping interest rates down thus more money is going into the stock market vice interest bearing commodities. Unemployment is going up due to many factors, one of which is globalization. Duggest you read the following articles.
Why the Stock Market Goes Up As Jobs Go Nowhere | FS Staff | FINANCIAL SENSE
A Record Stock Market with Record Federal Debt: Does This Make Sense? - Forbes

 

[metis]

When unemployment figures are given, no matter who is/was president, only the official stats are cited, but it's common knowledge that the unofficial stat, which can only be estimated, is higher than the official stat. In this case, both appear to be on a downward trend overall.

Secondly, it's bogus that most new jobs are only part time. Beside that falsehood, most new jobs actually provide some healthcare benefits besides being full-time.

It's just a shame that we have a segment of our society who literally want the country to fail so they can blame it all on Obama, and if there's any doubt about that, then please explain why Republicans have continually voted against programs that they previously had devised and supported. Remember McConnell's statement that his number one priority was to make sure Obama didn't get re-elected-- not helping the economy or helping our fellow Americans.

No matter how good the idea, if Obama's for it, they're against it.

 

[metis]

Even though this is dated last September, the monthly jobs report have continued to show this trend:

Republican gubernatorial nominee Ken Cuccinelli says Obamacare has eroded the quality of jobs in the United States. "Since the president signed it into law, in Virginia and around the country, most of our new jobs have been part-time jobs limited to less than 30 hours a week so employers can avoid the high cost of federally imposed health care bills," Cuccinelli said in a Sept. 19 speech...

The Bureau of Labor Statistics each month reports the number of people who usually work full time and the number who usually work part time. It defines part-time employees as people who usually work less than 35 hours a week -- an even broader definition of part time than Cuccinelli cited.

In March 2010, seasonally adjusted BLS figures show the U.S. had 111.2 million full-time workers. That rose to 116.2 million in August 2013, the latest month for which figures were available when Cuccinelli made his statement. That’s an increase of about 5 million.

The number of part-time jobs went from 27.5 million in March 2010 to just under 28 million in August 2013, an increase of about 500,000.

So, contrary to Cuccinelli’s claim, full-time jobs have grown 10 times faster than part-time employment since Obamacare was signed into law...

Our ruling

Cuccinelli says that since President Barack Obama signed the health care law, most of the new jobs created in the country have been part time. He’s flat out wrong. BLS figures show that since the signing in March 2010, there are 5 million more full-time workers and 500,000 more part-time employees.

Cuccinelli would have been on the putting for par if he’d aimed his statement at the first eight months of this year, when 65 percent of new jobs were part time, although analysts differ on Obamacare’s blame for that trend.

But his shot at Obamacare since its inception wound up in the woods. We rate his statement False. -- Cuccinelli says most new jobs have been part-time since Obamacare became law | PolitiFact Virginia

 

[metis]

Want another source?:

(Reuters) - There is little evidence that employers are sacrificing full-time jobs by hiring more part-timers or reducing existing employee hours because of the costs of providing health coverage under Obamacare.

Conservative Republicans have pointed to the high level of part-time employment as evidence businesses are cutting hours for staff in response to the new healthcare law, which will require them to offer health insurance to full-time workers...

Also, the number of part-time workers spiked in 2008, well before Obamacare was enacted, and has been slowly falling as a share of total employment since 2010. In September people working part time because they could not find full-time work made up 5.5 percent of the employed, unchanged from August. The spike in 2008 and the steady drift downward since then suggests the elevated level of part-time workers is more likely due to the economy's weakness. -- Analysis: Little evidence yet that Obamacare costing full-time jobs | Reuters

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Want another source?:

(Reuters) - There is little evidence that employers are sacrificing full-time jobs by hiring more part-timers or reducing existing employee hours because of the costs of providing health coverage under Obamacare.

Conservative Republicans have pointed to the high level of part-time employment as evidence businesses are cutting hours for staff in response to the new healthcare law, which will require them to offer health insurance to full-time workers...

Also, the number of part-time workers spiked in 2008, well before Obamacare was enacted, and has been slowly falling as a share of total employment since 2010. In September people working part time because they could not find full-time work made up 5.5 percent of the employed, unchanged from August. The spike in 2008 and the steady drift downward since then suggests the elevated level of part-time workers is more likely due to the economy's weakness. -- Analysis: Little evidence yet that Obamacare costing full-time jobs | Reuters

Even though this is dated last September, the monthly jobs report have continued to show this trend:

Republican gubernatorial nominee Ken Cuccinelli says Obamacare has eroded the quality of jobs in the United States. "Since the president signed it into law, in Virginia and around the country, most of our new jobs have been part-time jobs limited to less than 30 hours a week so employers can avoid the high cost of federally imposed health care bills," Cuccinelli said in a Sept. 19 speech...

The Bureau of Labor Statistics each month reports the number of people who usually work full time and the number who usually work part time. It defines part-time employees as people who usually work less than 35 hours a week -- an even broader definition of part time than Cuccinelli cited.

In March 2010, seasonally adjusted BLS figures show the U.S. had 111.2 million full-time workers. That rose to 116.2 million in August 2013, the latest month for which figures were available when Cuccinelli made his statement. That’s an increase of about 5 million.

The number of part-time jobs went from 27.5 million in March 2010 to just under 28 million in August 2013, an increase of about 500,000.

So, contrary to Cuccinelli’s claim, full-time jobs have grown 10 times faster than part-time employment since Obamacare was signed into law...

Our ruling

Cuccinelli says that since President Barack Obama signed the health care law, most of the new jobs created in the country have been part time. He’s flat out wrong. BLS figures show that since the signing in March 2010, there are 5 million more full-time workers and 500,000 more part-time employees.

Cuccinelli would have been on the putting for par if he’d aimed his statement at the first eight months of this year, when 65 percent of new jobs were part time, although analysts differ on Obamacare’s blame for that trend.

But his shot at Obamacare since its inception wound up in the woods. We rate his statement False. -- Cuccinelli says most new jobs have been part-time since Obamacare became law | PolitiFact Virginia

Freaking Awesome.....:clap

 

[esmith]

When unemployment figures are given, no matter who is/was president, only the official stats are cited, but it's common knowledge that the unofficial stat, which can only be estimated, is higher than the official stat. In this case, both appear to be on a downward trend overall.

Secondly, it's bogus that most new jobs are only part time. Beside that falsehood, most new jobs actually provide some healthcare benefits besides being full-time.

So, you are saying that the U6 figures are incorrect or just estimates. Suggest you look at the following.
U6 Unemployment Rate | Portal Seven

 

[metis]

So, you are saying that the U6 figures are incorrect or just estimates. Suggest you look at the following.
U6 Unemployment Rate | Portal Seven

If you go back and check it out, it does not include the 2nd half of 2013, and this is what I was referring to. Earlier this year was the grid-lock shutdown and temporary layoffs, along with the effect of the sequester, which had a terrible economic affect that cost us roughly $24 billion mostly because Boehner and the T.P. Republicans, and even moderate Republicans realized that.

If you're interested, every Friday on "Morning Joe" between 8 & 9 a.m. (usually just after 8:30) e.s.t., they give the financial report from Wall Street, and then they resume discussion as to what are the trends and implications.

 

[esmith]

If you go back and check it out, it does not include the 2nd half of 2013, and this is what I was referring to. Earlier this year was the grid-lock shutdown and temporary layoffs, along with the effect of the sequester, which had a terrible economic affect that cost us roughly $24 billion mostly because Boehner and the T.P. Republicans, and even moderate Republicans realized that.

If you're interested, every Friday on "Morning Joe" between 8 & 9 a.m. (usually just after 8:30) e.s.t., they give the financial report from Wall Street, and then they resume discussion as to what are the trends and implications.

According to the BLS has released the U6 numbers through Nov 2013. Yes the U6 has dropped 0.8% from Nov 2012 to Nov 2013. So as you can see the economic picture is still depressed.
Table A-15. Alternative measures of labor underutilization

 

[mystic64]

So what effect is the weather extremes damages going to have on the US economy? And we have gone from global warming to global cooling off which started in 2008. Science is saying that we are headed into another Ice Age weather pattern and the last one happened in the 1600's and lasted one hundred years. Our sun is cooling off for some reason. Science is also saying that at least for a while we are going to be glad for the greenhouse effect. So realitive to the foreseeable future, what effect is an Ice Age weather environment going to have on the US economy and is the US government preparing for this? Last time this happened this years weather patterns for the US East coast and plains was considered normal, for years.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

According to the BLS has released the U6 numbers through Nov 2013. Yes the U6 has dropped 0.8% from Nov 2012 to Nov 2013. So as you can see the economic picture is still depressed.
Table A-15. Alternative measures of labor underutilization

It's very depressed...but still trending downward. We'll have to wait and see since Republicans are poised to let the unemployment insurance expire instead of extending them.

Question. I've gone to the GOP's website to find out how they plan to grow jobs in America and while there seems to be a small amount of bullet points there...there's nothing in depth or comprehensive. Do you have information as to their plan to grow jobs? I went to their site first but maybe you can point us in the right direction. I've gone to the Democrat's site and there's seem to be more in depth. I've Seen the President's jobs plan, his veterans jobs plan and the make it in America plan...and the various educational and infrastructure proposals..and was wondering what are the Republicans offering to get things moving....

 

[Reverend Rick]

Aw, you know that if Mitty was in office, the conservatives would be crowing over these economic numbers. The Dow is up, unemployment is down, new jobs are up. It would be "proof" of the power of the conservative economic plan!

This is really how you see us evil Republicans? We seriously need to tone this down a bit, (not RF in real life). If we ge demonised before we even do anything, (Mitt did not win) if you expect the worst you will only see the worse.

JB has took a step towards the center, HR better do the same because in case if you have not noticed the American people are not pleased with either side right now and expect both sides TO WORK TOGETHER.

Real life would dictate that we are going to have to compromise. That means your not going to get everything you want and neither am I.

 

[esmith]

It's very depressed...but still trending downward. We'll have to wait and see since Republicans are poised to let the unemployment insurance expire instead of extending them.

Question. I've gone to the GOP's website to find out how they plan to grow jobs in America and while there seems to be a small amount of bullet points there...there's nothing in depth or comprehensive. Do you have information as to their plan to grow jobs? I went to their site first but maybe you can point us in the right direction. I've gone to the Democrat's site and there's seem to be more in depth. I've Seen the President's jobs plan, his veterans jobs plan and the make it in America plan...and the various educational and infrastructure proposals..and was wondering what are the Republicans offering to get things moving....

This is a mid-term election therefore I would have to "assume" that each individual running for the Senate or the House would promulgate what their ideas would be. Now when we reach the 2016 election cycle I would suspect that each candidate vying for the presidency would put forth their own ideas on what they would do to improve the economy.
I have my ideas what would improve the economy and I will listen to what the incumbent and challenger has to say in the 2014 election cycle. To vote on a specific party's platform for my direct representative in Congress would, in my opinion, not be a smart option.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

American people are not pleased with either side right now and expect both sides TO WORK TOGETHER.

Real life would dictate that we are going to have to compromise. That means your not going to get everything you want and neither am I.

Surly this is directed more to your side...since Senate and House Democrats have been compromising. In every budget negotiation Democrats and the President have brought forth serious cuts to the table. Many of these cuts are already law. They even offered up Chained CPI even though it was hard to do but did it anyway...even though Republicans have wanted to hit the big 3 for some time now (See Paul Ryan's budget) but many of the proposals have gone nowhere because Republicans don't want to "compromise" on revenue. Even this most recent Republican Lead Government Shutdown (which they cost us $24 Billion Dollars).....Democrats compromised and conceded to the Republican's budget number....So I'm wondering when the "compromise" is going to be reciprocated.....

 

[Dirty Penguin]

This is a mid-term election therefore I would have to "assume" that each individual running for the Senate or the House would promulgate what their ideas would be. Now when we reach the 2016 election cycle I would suspect that each candidate vying for the presidency would put forth their own ideas on what they would do to improve the economy.

But I know what the Democrat's plans are. I don't have to wait til the elections to hear or see what they are. The various jobs bills I've outlined along with in depth information of their economic plan isn't in question. So I know what they had, have and what they're putting forth....I was looking for something you could point to that Republicans are offering other than a short list of bullet points I've seen at their site. From Democrats I've seen the what and how...but from the Republicans I've only seen a snippet of the what but not the how....Do you have any information about their current economic plans that go into detail to get America back to work?....

 

[Reverend Rick]

It's very depressed...but still trending downward. We'll have to wait and see since Republicans are poised to let the unemployment insurance expire instead of extending them.

Question. I've gone to the GOP's website to find out how they plan to grow jobs in America and while there seems to be a small amount of bullet points there...there's nothing in depth or comprehensive. Do you have information as to their plan to grow jobs? I went to their site first but maybe you can point us in the right direction. I've gone to the Democrat's site and there's seem to be more in depth. I've Seen the President's jobs plan, his veterans jobs plan and the make it in America plan...and the various educational and infrastructure proposals..and was wondering what are the Republicans offering to get things moving....

Well DP, if you want people to create more jobs, raising minimum wage, requiring them to provide health insurance, and rasing taxes rains on that parade.

I am of the opinion that we can't have more jobs AND address income disparity at the same time. You have to get a job first, then improve working conditions. First things first.

NewYork has enterprise zones were new and expanding companies pay zero taxes for 10 years. That will prime the pump.

Extending unemployment keeps people out of the work force, why work when you get a check for doing nothing?

Yeah, I know thats harsh but after 99 weeks we still throw them to the wolves. Your just puting off what has to happen.

As long as I am drawing a check I will be picky. When no money comes in, I will take what I can get. Just think of all these picky folks getting on the payroll, that will help unemployment figures. No wonder the figures are so high, we pay people to not work.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Surly this is directed more to your side...since Senate and House Democrats have been compromising. In every budget negotiation Democrats and the President have brought forth serious cuts to the table. Many of these cuts are already law. They even offered up Chained CPI even though it was hard to do but did it anyway...even though Republicans have wanted to hit the big 3 for some time now (See Paul Ryan's budget) but many of the proposals have gone nowhere because Republicans don't want to "compromise" on revenue. Even this most recent Republican Lead Government Shutdown (which they cost us $24 Billion Dollars).....Democrats compromised and conceded to the Republican's budget number....So I'm wondering when the "compromise" is going to be reciprocated.....

We can't agree on anything if we are going to throw rocks at each other. Remember the sequester deal? WE AGREED TO REDUCE SPENDING NO MATTER WHAT.

I think we had better do what we already agreed to do before we hammer anything else out. No new taxes, no additional spending.

Lets have a budget that spends within it's means. You want something new, lets cut something already in there. You can have anything you want, jus get rid of something else already there.

How hard can that be with all the fraud waste and abuse dripping from the current budget.

I swear, if we are not increasing the budget every year, you look at it like a cut.