US Government Shutdown

[Falvlun]

I think that raising the minimum wage would just create more of a mess. What needs to be done is to lower tha maximum wage. If the maximum wage was lowered everything would eventually solve itself. And because there are more of us than there are of them, and the US is a Democracy where the majority rules, the concept is doable.

And I suppose that we could hire Mr. Revolt as a consultant on what to do with the extra money. With a cap on his wage of course.

I'm not seeing how this would work better than a minimum wage hike. If you raise minimum wage, the poor and middle class have more money to spend. Because most of their money gets pumped right back into the economy-- since they need most, if not all, of it to get basic life services-- this spurs the economy.

A cap on wages, while it would be useful in conjunction to a minimum wage hike, would not necessarily see that extra money being put into middle class pockets, which is where it needs to be.

 

[tytlyf]

A minimum wage hike is long overdue. Less people on government assistance after the fact and a stronger economy.
I'm not in favor of a maximum wage cap, as it's up to the private business to decide what they want to take in/pay out.
The maximum wage cap should lie in the moral ethics of the owner.

 

[Sunstone]

,,, they might as well go all out and hire lap dancers instead. Or to be specific....ballet lap dancers.

I'm on it!

 

[Reverend Rick]

I'm not seeing how this would work better than a minimum wage hike. If you raise minimum wage, the poor and middle class have more money to spend. Because most of their money gets pumped right back into the economy-- since they need most, if not all, of it to get basic life services-- this spurs the economy.

A cap on wages, while it would be useful in conjunction to a minimum wage hike, would not necessarily see that extra money being put into middle class pockets, which is where it needs to be.

I'm still trying to understand this plan of living on the lowest jobs out there like that is going to accomplish anything. Is that the Obama plan, minimum wage jobs for everyone?

 

[YmirGF]

I'm not seeing how this would work better than a minimum wage hike. If you raise minimum wage, the poor and middle class have more money to spend. Because most of their money gets pumped right back into the economy-- since they need most, if not all, of it to get basic life services-- this spurs the economy.

So it would have no effect on businesses already trying to make ends meet? My guess is that if mandated it would throw thousands, if not millions, onto the unemployment lines. That and add to inflation which would sort of defeat the purpose of raising the minimum wage. And what do you do with people making $12, $15, $20 and $100 per hour based on their qualifications? Do they automatically get a parity raise?

 

[Reverend Rick]

How many kids will get a first time job? You want more money, get a real job and leave McDonald's for the kiddies to work somewhere.

People are insane if they think they can get paid a living wage to ring up a happy meal.

 

[mystic64]

I'm not seeing how this would work better than a minimum wage hike. If you raise minimum wage, the poor and middle class have more money to spend. Because most of their money gets pumped right back into the economy-- since they need most, if not all, of it to get basic life services-- this spurs the economy.

A cap on wages, while it would be useful in conjunction to a minimum wage hike, would not necessarily see that extra money being put into middle class pockets, which is where it needs to be.

Mr. Falvan, I just want to say that you are refreshingly rational and a gift of ballance to the grand theme of things. With that said:

The problem with rasing the minimum wage is that it creates inflation. A liveable wage is only a temporary reality if one is using the minimum wage as a vehicle to achieve a liveable wage. I am by nature socialisticly inclined, but the problem is that socialism doesn't work because too many folks do not want to work and a small group ends up supporting a larger group. So incentive is the order of the day to create a functional reality and if the realitively small group of very high wage earners lose incentive, then who cares . The bottom needs motivated and because the top is getting fat feeding on the bottom along with creating a reality where the bottom can never get a head, slowing down the top would motivate the bottom to achieve the middle and also give the bottom the oportunity to do so.

Stability is a motivated workforce and a large middle class. The poor getting poorer and the middle class shrinking because the rich are getting richer is a nonfunctional reality. Something needs to be done and it needs to be done in the forseeable future, otherwise we are just going to revert back to feudalism with large corporations and their owners being the "Lords" of large ecconomic estates run by "their" peasants.

 

[tytlyf]

How many kids will get a first time job? You want more money, get a real job and leave McDonald's for the kiddies to work somewhere.

People are insane if they think they can get paid a living wage to ring up a happy meal.

You live in an alternate universe. The avg worker in the fast food industry is around 30 years old. If you think 'kiddies' aspire to work at mcdonalds then you're mistaken. These days a lot of people go to college and such right out of high school because they know that more education = more money and more options in the career field. Back in your days people would work in the industrial field (war times) and typically only work for 1 company for decades. Do you think poor people putting things together should be a 'livable wage?"
What about that gas station tender, should they get paid a living wage back then? Although the work at Mcdonalds is tougher than a gas station.
You are detached from the 21st century. Come on man, you can't really believe the things you do.

 

[Reverend Rick]

So it would have no effect on businesses already trying to make ends meet? My guess is that if mandated it would throw thousands, if not millions, onto the unemployment lines. That and add to inflation which would sort of defeat the purpose of raising the minimum wage. And what do you do with people making $12, $15, $20 and $100 per hour based on their qualifications? Do they automatically get a parity raise?

Why no they don't, they believe their non-skilled job is equal to everyone else's job. They don't see the need to educate themselves or learn a trade. They want to keep their substandard job and live happily ever after.

 

[metis]

Why no they don't, they believe their non-skilled job is equal to everyone else's job. They don't see the need to educate themselves or learn a trade. They want to keep their substandard job and live happily ever after.

Stereotyping is simply a form of lying, and it begs the question why you perpetually do this? Secondly, there's no doubt some people fit your description above, but as what's been pointed out over and over again, many simply do not.

What I find so bizarre with your position is that if people cannot make a decent minimum wage, then a great many have no choice but to go on forms of government assistance, which helps to make "big government" bigger yet, which you also condemn.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Stability is a motivated workforce and a large middle class. The poor getting poorer and the middle class shrinking because the rich are getting richer is a nonfunctional reality. Something needs to be done and it needs to be done in the forseeable future, otherwise we are just going to revert back to feudalism with large corporations and their owners being the "Lords" of large ecconomic estates run by "their" peasants.

We are already there with exception of the skilled professional worker who still remain in the middle class.

10 or 15 dollars an hour will not fix this. Can you buy a home making this kind of wage?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I'm still trying to understand this plan of living on the lowest jobs out there like that is going to accomplish anything. Is that the Obama plan, minimum wage jobs for everyone?

Somebody has to work them...unfortunately what we're now finding is that even 2 and 4 year degree applicants have to take many of these jobs. The bottom line is this has been trending this way way before Obama took office. The "middle class" and the working poor have seen their income remain flat to a point of actually losing money while a top certain percentile have seen a 300% increase over time.

 

[YmirGF]

Somebody has to work them...unfortunately what we're now finding is that even 2 and 4 year degree applicants have to take many of these jobs. The bottom line is this has been trending this way way before Obama took office. The "middle class" and the working poor have seen their income remain flat to a point of actually losing money while a top certain percentile have seen a 300% increase over time.

Perhaps these brilliant students should have researched their chosen field a little more judiciously. Evidently they didn't give much thought to a bottom line or they wouldn't be wasting their time at McDonald's.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Perhaps these brilliant students should have researched their chosen field a little more judiciously. Evidently they didn't give much thought to a bottom line or they wouldn't be wasting their time at McDonald's.

Exactly right, they want to learn something they enjoy same for their job, it has to be fun or at least interesting.

We have a whole generaion that want to constantly entertained. I blame it on parents who let their children sit in front of the television too long.

Where is it said we have to like our job?

 

[Falvlun]

Perhaps these brilliant students should have researched their chosen field a little more judiciously. Evidently they didn't give much thought to a bottom line or they wouldn't be wasting their time at McDonald's.

Exactly right, they want to learn something they enjoy same for their job, it has to be fun or at least interesting.

We have a whole generaion that want to constantly entertained. I blame it on parents who let their children sit in front of the television too long.

Where is it said we have to like our job?

You guys do realize that, at this point, nearly every single job requires a degree, right? It often doesn't even matter what the degree is in; college is the new highschool. The employment market is so flooded with job applicants (and college graduates), that employers can afford to throw out any non-grad, in favor of a grad. I used to work at a QC lab in a factory that made infant formula. We had a really sweet old lady who had worked there, cleaning our glassware, since the beginning of time. She was retiring, and guess what: In the job application, they now required a college education for that dishwashing position. I think people in the older generations need to realize that the game has changed since they entered the workforce.

 

[Falvlun]

I'm still trying to understand this plan of living on the lowest jobs out there like that is going to accomplish anything. Is that the Obama plan, minimum wage jobs for everyone?

I'm still trying to understand this plan of trickle down economics. :sad:

So it would have no effect on businesses already trying to make ends meet? My guess is that if mandated it would throw thousands, if not millions, onto the unemployment lines. That and add to inflation which would sort of defeat the purpose of raising the minimum wage. And what do you do with people making $12, $15, $20 and $100 per hour based on their qualifications? Do they automatically get a parity raise?

Various studies have shown that right now, businesses are pretty flush. They are just sitting on a lot of money. And if these businesses can't keep afloat when paying their workers a fair wage, then that's capitalism, baby. Basically, you sound like you're advocating that the government and workers subsidize these businesses by donating cheap labor and welfare.

Also, if businesses are able to afford pay hikes and bonuses for their top execs, then surely they can afford a couple bucks more/hr for their workers.

Minimum wage has not kept up with inflation. If it had, it would be $10 and change.

That's a good question regarding the parity raise. I suspect that yes, businesses will likely have to increase some of those wages as well, particularly those at the lower end of the scale, if they want to keep their workers.

How many kids will get a first time job? You want more money, get a real job and leave McDonald's for the kiddies to work somewhere.

People are insane if they think they can get paid a living wage to ring up a happy meal.

Then people in the 50s were insane. But from what I hear, those were pretty good times.

 

[Revoltingest]

Various studies have shown that right now, businesses are pretty flush.

I know I'm about to be fleeced when I see statements like that:
- Unsourced
- Passive voice (no one is responsible)
- Overly general (Not all of us are "flush".)
- Implication that someone else's excess money is ripe for the picking.

 

[Falvlun]

I know I'm about to be fleeced when I see statements like that:
- Unsourced
- Passive voice (no one is responsible)
- Overly general (Not all of us are "flush".)
- Implication that someone else's excess money is ripe for the picking.

There have been multiple stories about businesses sitting on money, and not investing.

Here is an example:
$5 Trillion Stash

Also importantly, over the last two decades, business profits have skyrocketed. Why hasn't this "trickled down" to the workers?

Link

It is a fair point that not every business is doing as well as other businesses, but as already mentioned, isn't that called "capitalism"?

 

[Falvlun]

- Implication that someone else's excess money is ripe for the picking.

This deserved a separate reply.

The workers are producing those profits, just like the owner and top dogs. I see no reason to consider the fruits of the company to be solely earned, and therefore the sole, and rightful property of, the owner.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Perhaps these brilliant students should have researched their chosen field a little more judiciously. Evidently they didn't give much thought to a bottom line or they wouldn't be wasting their time at McDonald's.

If you knew what you were talking about and the facts supported your gross generalization I would agree. You're placing blame on the student/person without understanding the plight of the individual who has to take a job making less. I didn't even mention "McDonald's" but the fact that you brought up fast food only shows that you lack an understanding of the entire picture. My comment wasn't just about fast food. It was about the current labour market and income disparity.

This I found interesting and presents some perspective on the matter. As a public school worker dealing with high school students and talking with HS graduates that have returned to visit us over time we see how they fair in today's market. The article below is indicative to a huge population of college graduates...

College Degree = $10-Hour Job - Forbes