US Government Shutdown

[Dirty Penguin]

I asked a question because I wanted an answer then I explained why I was simply going to accept the answer without questioning it or elaborating. Exactly what rule or social convention did I break?

Let me ask you a question and please be honest.

Is the reason you commented on my not wanting to elaborate because.

1. You have some need to know?
2. I have violated some expectation you have justification for requiring?
3. Or because you did not like what I said and the only retort was what you came up with?

Mine was rhetorical. I was being snarky....

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Obama's budget for 2014 is as follows (Discretionary only)

That budget should switch the military and science/energy&environment sections.

 

[esmith]

That budget should switch the military and science/energy&environment sections.

and you sir should live in the real world.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

and you sir should live in the real world.

Good grief....

He is living in the real world....Even the Republican backed Libertarian site CATO says military cuts are needed....

Cut (Really Cut) Military Spending | Cato Institute

espite all the hype about Defense Secretary Robert Gates and his cuts of big-ticket military projects, the Pentagon’s $680 billion budget is actually slated to increase in coming years. This is unconscionable at a time when taxpayers are under enormous stress and when the U.S. government must reduce spending across the board. Barack Obama can save big bucks without undermining U.S. security — but only if he refocuses the military on a few, core missions.

And this conservative website list 16 different ways to save money and all of them are based on military cuts, reductions and restructuring.

16 Ways to Cut Defense Spending | The American Conservative

Overall the military, as bloated as it truly is, is just one of the federal government agencies we can save tens of billions of dollars.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

and you sir should live in the real world.

The unfortunate reality is that I do live in the real world. Its not possible for to pass that kind of budget because we live in a world controlled by people who profit from war and those who fear their neighbor. We don't "need" war. Its just an unfortunate fact that still exists in todays world. Though if we did put that much effort into the sciences and technology I think we could evolve past it.

 

[Apex]

Good grief....

He is living in the real world....Even the Republican backed Libertarian site CATO says military cuts are needed....

Cut (Really Cut) Military Spending | Cato Institute


And this conservative website list 16 different ways to save money and all of them are based on military cuts, reductions and restructuring.

16 Ways to Cut Defense Spending | The American Conservative

Overall the military, as bloated as it truly is, is just one of the federal government agencies we can save tens of billions of dollars.

I wonder if people really understand the full meaning of their words when they demand for massive cuts in military spending.

And for the record, the military is being cut. Right now. Those of us in the AF were just told that 25,000 of us will be let go by this time next year (what a wonderful Christmas present that was). And this is on top of cut after cut after cut that all of our budgets are getting. When you demand immediate spending cuts in the military, it is real families livelihoods you are ******* with. Gradual cuts over time are fine (and I agree that they are needed). But massive cuts with no warning only ruin people's lives (and cause massive spikes in unemployment).

 

[tytlyf]

And for the record, the military is being cut. Right now. Those of us in the AF were just told that 25,000 of us will be let go by this time next year (what a wonderful Christmas present that was). .

So essentially certain people are getting fired? As some would say, time to pull your bootstraps up and hit the job pavement!

 

[esmith]

Good grief....

He is living in the real world....Even the Republican backed Libertarian site CATO says military cuts are needed....

And this conservative website list 16 different ways to save money and all of them are based on military cuts, reductions and restructuring.

Overall the military, as bloated as it truly is, is just one of the federal government agencies we can save tens of billions of dollars.

The unfortunate reality is that I do live in the real world. Its not possible for to pass that kind of budget because we live in a world controlled by people who profit from war and those who fear their neighbor. We don't "need" war. Its just an unfortunate fact that still exists in todays world. Though if we did put that much effort into the sciences and technology I think we could evolve past it.

Do not get me wrong, I do not think that the military budget could not be cut; However, the governments requirement for them to do any mission that politicians want them to do has to also be scaled back. What I was objecting to was Monk Of Reason's unattainable desire to swap the DOD's 57% of the Discretionary budget ($1.15 trillion) for the 3% of the science and the 3% of the energy&environment section of that section of the budget. Do any of you expect the DOD to meet the requirements imposed on them by politicians and defend this country on 6% of the Discretionary budget which would be approximately $69 billion dollars (6% of $1.15 trillion = $69 billion). This is what I meant by "live in the real world".

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Do not get me wrong, I do not think that the military budget could not be cut; However, the governments requirement for them to do any mission that politicians want them to do has to also be scaled back. What I was objecting to was Monk Of Reason's unattainable desire to swap the DOD's 57% of the Discretionary budget ($1.15 trillion) for the 3% of the science and the 3% of the energy&environment section of that section of the budget. Do any of you expect the DOD to meet the requirements imposed on them by politicians and defend this country on 6% of the Discretionary budget which would be approximately $69 billion dollars (6% of $1.15 trillion = $69 billion). This is what I meant by "live in the real world".

While I agree our budget WON'T be pushed that low but I want you to entertain me with the reason why you think it CAN'T?

 

[esmith]

While I agree our budget WON'T be pushed that low but I want you to entertain me with the reason why you think it CAN'T?

I think that since it is where it is at at the present time you should be the one giving the reason why it could be taken to a 6% level.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

I think that since it is where it is at at the present time you should be the one giving the reason why it could be taken to a 6% level.

Nope. I am asking you that question. what is your reasoning for it?

 

[esmith]

Nope. I am asking you that question. what is your reasoning for it?

First I would like you to read the following article and all articles referenced in the main article. I think the writers in those articles have valid points.
Defense Budget/Policy | Cato Institute

Now, do you agree or disagree with what is put forth in these articles? Point by point argument is desired.

 

[tytlyf]

Here's an interesting perspective on funding science and technology. I would love to see the day where the funding for science/technology eclipses defense spending.

[youtube]8x98KFcMJeo[/youtube]

 

[Monk Of Reason]

First I would like you to read the following article and all articles referenced in the main article. I think the writers in those articles have valid points.
Defense Budget/Policy | Cato Institute

Now, do you agree or disagree with what is put forth in these articles? Point by point argument is desired.

We do not provide "protection" or "freedom" to other nations. We put it out there to maintain a powerful hand in the world and to use as leverage in foreign policy. The only country that has really benefited from having us as an ally would be Israel and thats because they are our outsourced torture camp.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I wonder if people really understand the full meaning of their words when they demand for massive cuts in military spending.

And for the record, the military is being cut. Right now. Those of us in the AF were just told that 25,000 of us will be let go by this time next year (what a wonderful Christmas present that was). And this is on top of cut after cut after cut that all of our budgets are getting. When you demand immediate spending cuts in the military, it is real families livelihoods you are ******* with. Gradual cuts over time are fine (and I agree that they are needed). But massive cuts with no warning only ruin people's lives (and cause massive spikes in unemployment).

But where did I ever side on massive cuts? Nowhere. I'm pointing out the simple fact that cutting the military...even up to 75% saves hundreds of billions and we would still have the largest military in the world......and for the record, if you've noticed, it's Republicans and their financial backers that are advocating keeping across the board sequester cuts in place....So when you jump on Democrats when it comes to cuts...know that we're not talking about massive across the board cuts in a short time frame. No...that's what Republicans want to keep in place.

 

[Apex]

But where did I ever side on massive cuts? Nowhere. I'm pointing out the simple fact that cutting the military...even up to 75% saves hundreds of billions and we would still have the largest military in the world......and for the record, if you've noticed, it's Republicans and their financial backers that are advocating keeping across the board sequester cuts in place....So when you jump on Democrats when it comes to cuts...know that we're not talking about massive across the board cuts in a short time frame. No...that's what Republicans want to keep in place.

My post was not simply directed only at you, but in general. Many people go on about cutting the military as if it is some nebulous entity with no real people who have to support actual families. And my jumping on Democrats while giving Republicans a pass is a creation of your own imagination.

 

[metis]

Where's the supposed ethics in keeping pumping money into defense weapons that the Pentagon doesn't even want while at the same time reducing veteran's benefits and ending unemployment compensation for over one million Americans?

 

[Monk Of Reason]

My post was not simply directed only at you, but in general. Many people go on about cutting the military as if it is some nebulous entity with no real people who have to support actual families. And my jumping on Democrats while giving Republicans a pass is a creation of your own imagination.

My position has not been that we simply drop everyone that is currently in the military or cut benifits already granted. My position is that we hire far less in the future. In 15 years if we only hired 10% of the people that we do now our military would shrink dramatically over the course of those 15 years. Most people aren't in it for life. Most only do a few years.

 

[esmith]

My position has not been that we simply drop everyone that is currently in the military or cut benifits already granted. My position is that we hire far less in the future. In 15 years if we only hired 10% of the people that we do now our military would shrink dramatically over the course of those 15 years. Most people aren't in it for life. Most only do a few years.

History has proven your scenario to have cost many lives and almost lost us a country.
Suggest you read The Coldest Winter by David Halberstand

 

[Monk Of Reason]

History has proven your scenario to have cost many lives and almost lost us a country.
Suggest you read The Coldest Winter by David Halberstand

Which situation are you referring? I don't really have time to read an entire book just to satisfy a single response in a debate thread.