Using Evil to disprove God doesn't make sense

[AWsmith82]

Some athiests (I myself am one) will say that Evil disproves the existence of the christian god. But it really does not. It actually only disproves what Christianity believes and teaches about God, not that he doesn't exist. Evil proves at least of the following facts about the Christian God

1. God truly isn't all good and allows evil
2. God isn't all powerful and can't stop evil
3. God just doesn't give a dam
4. any combination of the above 3

Agree?

 

[Skwim]

It all comes down to the fact that to the Christian there is only one god, and that god necessarily has characteristics X, Y, and Z. If, for any reason, one of these characteristics is false it then means the Christian god, as necessarily defined, would not exist. If you want to postulate a god with some other characteristics, maybe those not so contradictory or incongruous, then this would be another form of god, and you could even declare him to be real; however, this new "real" god wouldn't be the god of Christianity, nor would it save him from nonexistence.

 

[Hari Krishna]

Some athiests (I myself am one) will say that Evil disproves the existence of the christian god. But it really does not. It actually only disproves what Christianity believes and teaches about God, not that he doesn't exist. Evil proves at least of the following facts about the Christian God

1. God truly isn't all good and allows evil
2. God isn't all powerful and can't stop evil
3. God just doesn't give a dam
4. any combination of the above 3

Agree?

This is Epicurus rehashed. Your assumptions are flawed. This doesn't prove anything.

1. Allowing evil is not necessarily not-good.

Take as an example a surgeon who cuts open a patient to cure their disease. If we didn't know the patient had a disease, and we didn't know surgery cured disease, we would judge the surgeon from our limited perspective to be cruel and committing evil whereas the reality is the opposite.

What about if someone could see the future and killed Hitler when he was a cute innocent baby? Would look bad if you didn't know what Hitler was going to do in the future.

So to make the judgement that god is not good because he allows evil is not possible unless you are omniscient - knowing everything.

2. God is all powerful and can stop evil if he chooses. See above.

3. God must give a damn. If he is god he must be conscious, as otherwise how could he be absolute and infinite? Not only does he give a damn, he is all-feeling. He loves everyone and everything.

Agree?

 

[9Westy9]

Wrong. It disproves their definition of god. They can refine it if they want but it destroys the notion of a benevolent god

 

[Me Myself]

Wrong. It disproves their definition of god. They can refine it if they want but it destroys the notion of a benevolent god

of a benevolent OMNIPOTENT God, yes.

But it indeed has been explained a thousand times and one, so what are we doing here?

 

[PolyHedral]

Take as an example a surgeon who cuts open a patient to cure their disease

Actually, don't. Take the example of a swarm of nanotechnology capable of rewriting reality from the atomic level up...

God is not limited by physics, or biology. God is not in fact limited by anything; and He can achieve His goals without any side effects or unwanted harm.

 

[godtrap]

Agree.

 

[Erebus]

Agree?

Absolutely. The problem of evil is a very limited argument that only works on an omnimax supreme being (furthermore it assumes this deity must also be "good"). It's been used over and over again as a stock argument so it's refreshing to see a new member who sees the flaws in it

 

[Skwim]

This is Epicurus rehashed. Your assumptions are flawed. This doesn't prove anything.

1. Allowing evil is not necessarily not-good.

Take as an example a surgeon who cuts open a patient to cure their disease. If we didn't know the patient had a disease, and we didn't know surgery cured disease, we would judge the surgeon from our limited perspective to be cruel and committing evil whereas the reality is the opposite.

What about if someone could see the future and killed Hitler when he was a cute innocent baby? Would look bad if you didn't know what Hitler was going to do in the future.

So to make the judgement that god is not good because he allows evil is not possible unless you are omniscient - knowing everything.

2. God is all powerful and can stop evil if he chooses. See above.

3. God must give a damn. If he is god he must be conscious, as otherwise how could he be absolute and infinite? Not only does he give a damn, he is all-feeling. He loves everyone and everything.

Agree?

Trying to get around the problem of evil by playing with its definition won't work Hari. Ya got to do better than this.

 

[Willamena]

God is not limited by physics, or biology. God is not in fact limited by anything; and He can achieve His goals without any side effects or unwanted harm.

Wouldn't that be a limit, i.e. condition?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

The problem of evil poses a significant challenge to the existence of the Christian God, because Christians believe that God is good.

But it does seem self-defeating that someone would say that God can't exist because of evil, because you'd be approaching evil from a sort of weird Christian-like sort of way.

Really, you're pointing out a weakness in Christianity's own belief system. They believe that evil exists and that God exists, but how?

 

[9Westy9]

of a benevolent OMNIPOTENT God, yes.

But it indeed has been explained a thousand times and one, so what are we doing here?

Oh yes, sorry about that . He would need to be both, and possibly even omnipresent aswell. Unless omnipresent is a part of omnipotence ofc.

What are we doing here? Drugs, sex and rock 'n roll

 

[PolyHedral]

Wouldn't that be a limit, i.e. condition?

Only if the statement where "God must," which it is not.

 

[Stevicus]

Some athiests (I myself am one) will say that Evil disproves the existence of the christian god. But it really does not. It actually only disproves what Christianity believes and teaches about God, not that he doesn't exist. Evil proves at least of the following facts about the Christian God

1. God truly isn't all good and allows evil
2. God isn't all powerful and can't stop evil
3. God just doesn't give a dam
4. any combination of the above 3

Agree?

I mostly agree, depending on how "evil" is defined. Personally, I probably tend to lean more towards item #3 on your list.

The one thing I find most compelling about atheism is that it actually allows an individual to make peace with "God," as strange as it may sound.

If I believed that "God loves us" and took an active interest in affairs here on Earth (along with being absolutely perfect, all-knowing, and all-powerful), I would be extremely disappointed and quite angry with God at this point.

But if thought that God didn't exist (or if I thought He was lazy, imperfect, or possibly too busy to be concerned with our problems here on Earth) then I could live with that. That would explain a lot, anyway. Then I could say that there is no such thing as evil, as it's just the laws of nature in action - no judgment, no right, no wrong. In that sense, humans can't be considered any more evil than a lion consuming his prey.

If not that, then evil is just a design flaw - a glitch that God never got around to fixing.