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UU shot in Seattle hate crime
- Thread starter Green Gaia
- Start date
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
Maize said:
I am never surprised when innocent people are killed and injured in terrorist attacks.
The location was predictable,
as was the culprit.
the sad part is the hurt to every one involved.
Terrywoodenpic said:
Sad ? that's mild...........
Terrorism is the most cowardly, abusive and immoral way to fight one's battles (and I don't mean battles as in 'military'; I mean as in "Trying to make a point, forcefully". To my mind, those who debases themselves to such a level make a total mockery of the beliefs they represent, or the point they are treying to make).
lilithu
The Devil's Advocate
Just a comment to some of the responses:
While this is a hate crime, it is not "terrorism." Terrorism is a concerted effort by a small group of people, normally on the fringes of power, to commit acts of terror with the express intention of causing fear and uncertainty in order to destabilize the society. What happened on 9/11 was terrorism. What's going on in Iraq now is terrorism. This, while very painful, does not sound like terrorism. It is one angry man, motivated by hate, who hurt a lot of people. Just because a Muslim was involved in an act of violence does not automatically make it terrorism. I wonder, if it had been a skinhead who walked into the offices of the NAACP and did the same thing, whether you would be calling that terrorism.
While this is a hate crime, it is not "terrorism." Terrorism is a concerted effort by a small group of people, normally on the fringes of power, to commit acts of terror with the express intention of causing fear and uncertainty in order to destabilize the society. What happened on 9/11 was terrorism. What's going on in Iraq now is terrorism. This, while very painful, does not sound like terrorism. It is one angry man, motivated by hate, who hurt a lot of people. Just because a Muslim was involved in an act of violence does not automatically make it terrorism. I wonder, if it had been a skinhead who walked into the offices of the NAACP and did the same thing, whether you would be calling that terrorism.
Zephyr
Moved on
I have heard the same.Sunstone said:
I wouldn't call this terrorism. I would call it some guy getting angry and shooting a bunch of people. Sad, but this is Seattle. Lots of people get shot here.
EDIT: Here's something: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/279424_convert30ww.html
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
First, Maize: how tragic! For all those who were shot and not just the UU.
So, was it the fact that he was American or a Christian that makes you say this??? He had forsaken Islam. This guy was apparently Bi-Polar... how much emphasis are we going to continue to put on this guy's heritage?Terrywoodenpic said:
ALifetimeToWaitFor....
Myriad
Tragic and very very sad.
IMO these people are using mental illness as a cop out.
Your just as bad as them. He had a history of mental illness which could mean anything. Is it because all people with bi-polar are violent? Thats just as bad as their mindless babble. Just for your information Manic episodes are normally very happy with unpredictable behavior that endangers one self no one else.
IMO these people are using mental illness as a cop out.
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
That's the point... we have no idea what set him off... but the fact that he was a Muslim keeps coming up! There is no need to promulgate the fear over one deranged individual.
PS... I really have no idea what makes a person "Bi-Polar" and so I apologise if I spoke or inferred out of ignorance. Mea culpa.
PS... I really have no idea what makes a person "Bi-Polar" and so I apologise if I spoke or inferred out of ignorance. Mea culpa.
ALifetimeToWaitFor....
Myriad
Thats exactly what I was getting at.
ALifetimeToWaitFor....
Myriad
No I have Bi-Polar. I was speaking of people claiming mental illness in court as a cop out.
jamaesi
To Save A Lamb
This was a terrible senseless act of violence.
I'm glad to hear the woman who is pregnant is doing fine... she had covered her unborn baby with her arms to protect it.
However, it's not terrorism, it's not Islam. If this was any representative of Pakistanis or Muslims then I suppose you all have a lot to fear from me. I've had so many people throw this in my face because of the ethnicity and the religion and damning me because of this man's actions.
This was a lone man, obviously very ill and need of a lot of help (which I hope he recieves).
A person who harms others or themself because of their illness (can't control themselves, hears voices, etc) really is not in control or can really be held accountable for what they have done.
It would be like saying those with mental illnesses choose to hurt others as much as I (being deaf) choose to just not hear or that I (having an immunodeficiency- specifically hypogammaglobulinemia) just choose to not produce enough IgG to keep myself healthy.
I'm glad to hear the woman who is pregnant is doing fine... she had covered her unborn baby with her arms to protect it.
However, it's not terrorism, it's not Islam. If this was any representative of Pakistanis or Muslims then I suppose you all have a lot to fear from me.
I've had so many people throw this in my face because of the ethnicity and the religion and damning me because of this man's actions.This was a lone man, obviously very ill and need of a lot of help (which I hope he recieves).
Mental illnesses are not a copout, a lot of times it is a valid defense.
A person who harms others or themself because of their illness (can't control themselves, hears voices, etc) really is not in control or can really be held accountable for what they have done.
It would be like saying those with mental illnesses choose to hurt others as much as I (being deaf) choose to just not hear or that I (having an immunodeficiency- specifically hypogammaglobulinemia) just choose to not produce enough IgG to keep myself healthy.
Divine Androgyne
Member
"The shooter, Naveed Afzal Haq, 30, forced his way into the building by holding a gun to the back of a 14-year-old girl who was entering the building. During the shootings, the girl hid in the bathroom. One of Haqs victims, who had been shot in the arm, managed to call 911 after crawling to a phone. According to the Seattle Times, Haq talked to 911 saying This is a hostage situation, and I want these Jews to get out. He later added These are Jews, and Im tired of getting pushed around and our people getting pushed around in the Middle East. Seattle police have classified it as a hate crime."
A hate crime? It sure was! But the hate did not seem to be directed towards U.U.s as the title of this thread implyed but rather, jewish people.
A hate crime? It sure was!
But the hate did not seem to be directed towards U.U.s as the title of this thread implyed but rather, jewish people.
Green Gaia
Veteran Member
Divine Androgyne said:
That the hate was "directed towards UUs" is most certainly not what the title of the thread implyed, it simply stated a fact and that the hate was "directed towards UUs" was never stated at all in the article quoted. :sarcastic The title was taken from the article quoted with the same title which was found in a UU magazine.
Do I need to remind everyone that this is not in a debate section, but in the UU forum?