Vaccinations and Religious Exemptions

[IndigoChild5559]

ecco

Are you referring to this or something else...
Within the first 24 weeks or after 24 weeks if necessary to preserve the mother's health or if the fetus isn't viable.
If this is what you are referring to, then I see nothing wrong.​

How is it "run over roughshod"?

I would call the state of New York offering abortions right up to being in labor as running roughshod over Roe. Doctors killings babies that survive abortions is running roughshod over Roe.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Again, you cherry pick

The Bible is not a good source for morality.

Im not cherry picking. The slavery in the Bible is indentured servitude.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Source and context?

Abortion law in New York: What the Reproductive Health Act does and doesn't do

There needs to be clarifications on "health reasons." Women are simply saying they are depressed or anxious and getting 3rd trimester abortions.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

But what I am proposing is using the same criterion for fetuses. When they develop the brain activity even a comatose patient, we say they start getting rights.

Sound good?

I think that all nacient human beings have value/rights. But certainly a fetus that has brain activity has moved up to a higher level of rights.

 

[ecco]

ecco
Are you referring to this or something else...
Within the first 24 weeks or after 24 weeks if necessary to preserve the mother's health or if the fetus isn't viable.
If this is what you are referring to, then I see nothing wrong.



How is it "run over roughshod"?

I would call the state of New York offering abortions right up to being in labor as running roughshod over Roe. Doctors killings babies that survive abortions is running roughshod over Roe.

I asked several times if you were referring to the 24-week limit.

Twenty four weeks is not "right up to being in labor ".

 

[ecco]

Im not cherry picking. The slavery in the Bible is indentured servitude.

If you believe Biblical slavery is indentured servitude, then you are being intentionally blind or incredibly naive.

Leviticus 25
44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
​

To the slave age Southerner this meant buying slaves from Africa was as the Lord intended.

Does this look like a poster for a form of indentured servitude?

 

[ecco]

Abortion law in New York: What the Reproductive Health Act does and doesn't do

There needs to be clarifications on "health reasons." Women are simply saying they are depressed or anxious and getting 3rd trimester abortions.

Do you have a valid source for "saying they are depressed or anxious and getting 3rd trimester abortions." or is that just facebook hype? There is nothing in the article that supports your allegation.



From the article you linked...

The new state law leaves it up to the mother's health-care provider to "use their reasonable and good faith professional judgment based on the facts of the patient's case."

Opponents of the new law, like Dolan, say the health exception would allow late-term abortions for almost any reason.

But the health exception isn't new: It's required by Roe v. Wade, even when a woman is late in her term.​

It clearly states the determination lies with the woman's health-care provider. Who would you suggest should be able to make the determination, a politician; a member of the clergy?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Gee, Mr. Mote, when you put it that way it wounds worse than dihydrogen monoxide is a dangerous chemical that should be banned.


Kinda brings to mind the old:

It ain't whatcha say, it's the way thatcha say it.​

Ah, so you're just good with the euphemism "vaccine", and would rather not think about the realities of the substances involved I take it? Good for you. You've discovered you're allowed to come to conclusions about the facts as you will. As am I. Take care now.

 

[ecco]

Ah, so you're just good with the euphemism "vaccine", and would rather not think about the realities of the substances involved I take it? Good for you. You've discovered you're allowed to come to conclusions about the facts as you will. As am I. Take care now.

How can we stop polio?

GPEI-IPV

Inactivated polio vaccine (IPV) was developed in 1955 by Dr Jonas Salk. Also called the Salk vaccine IPV consists of inactivated (killed) poliovirus strains of all three poliovirus types.​

You stated I "would rather not think about the realities of the substances involved". You are probably right.

I'd rather know that I'm not going to get polio than know that some person is going to inject me with strains of polio.

But it doesn't matter how you word it. The point is that vaccines work. They work in spite of how bad they sound. They work in spite of people like Wakefield finding a way to make a lot of money by scaring a lot of people with BS. But they only work when people actually get vaccinated.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

How can we stop polio?

GPEI-IPV

Inactivated polio vaccine (IPV) was developed in 1955 by Dr Jonas Salk. Also called the Salk vaccine IPV consists of inactivated (killed) poliovirus strains of all three poliovirus types.​

You stated I "would rather not think about the realities of the substances involved". You are probably right.

I'd rather know that I'm not going to get polio than know that some person is going to inject me with strains of polio.

But it doesn't matter how you word it. The point is that vaccines work. They work in spite of how bad they sound. They work in spite of people like Wakefield finding a way to make a lot of money by scaring a lot of people with BS. But they only work when people actually get vaccinated.

Have I ever said they don't work? Of course they work. The idea behind vaccines is genius. Allow your body a chance to attack a less viable version of the virus so that it has the memory it needs for your immune system to obliterate the virus the next time it comes across it. Absolutely awesome. I prize the body fighting off invaders on its own above all else anyway. Strengthening your body's immune system so that you don't need "assistance" from medications to ameliorate symptoms, etc. This doesn't mean I ever take for granted that a substance I am electing to put into my body is "pure." I am vaccinated for all serious conditions, but I would not elect to get a flu shot, unless I knew my immune system to be seriously compromised otherwise. There's simply no need.

Personally, I stay away from any medication unless deemed necessary, and let my immune system handle all I can bear to let it handle. It's a strategy that, I feel, has worked well for me. More recently (going vegan several years back I believe also attributes to this) I have been getting through sicknesses (common stuff like cold/flu) within 2 or 3 days with only mild symptoms throughout, and none lingering. Granted, I take other steps - like making sure to increase my fluid and calorie intake, and keep my nasal passage from getting dry during sleep. But if I do end up taking a medication - the stuff works like magic for me. My body simply isn't used to it.

 

[ecco]

Personally, I stay away from any medication unless deemed necessary, and let my immune system handle all I can bear to let it handle. It's a strategy that, I feel, has worked well for me. More recently (going vegan several years back I believe also attributes to this) I have been getting through sicknesses (common stuff like cold/flu) within 2 or 3 days with only mild symptoms throughout, and none lingering. Granted, I take other steps - like making sure to increase my fluid and calorie intake, and keep my nasal passage from getting dry during sleep. But if I do end up taking a medication - the stuff works like magic for me. My body simply isn't used to it.

Except for the vegan part and the underlined part, I could have written that paragraph.

 

[Curious George]

Abortion law in New York: What the Reproductive Health Act does and doesn't do

There needs to be clarifications on "health reasons." Women are simply saying they are depressed or anxious and getting 3rd trimester abortions.

Sounds like someone bought into the propaganda.

Please enlighten us on the percentage of third trimester abortions. Next enlighten us on the percentage of those where women are merely claiming health reason in a trivial manner in order to obtain an abortion.

 

[Curious George]

For myself, I will never countenance medical treatment without consent. That said, I see no reason to coddle people making wrongheaded decisions based on flawed data that is likely to cause actual harm to others. No one should be forced to undergo medical treatment against their will. That doesn't mean that refusing that medical treatme t should be consequence free. For example, if you refuse to vaccinate your kids, that's your right. I don't see that you have any grounds to complain when those same kids are excluded from activities and opportunities, or the parent is excluded from family tax incentives or similar.

But there is a limit right?

You will not extend those consequences excessively. You would subject a person incapable of getting a vaccination to the same consequences, right?

This isn't just bitterness. It is rational, right?

 

[tas8831]

Make consequences all you like. Still doesn't change the fact that we're talking about exactly what I stated. The potential enforcement that unsterilized, foreign biological agents be placed directly into people's bloodstreams.

Curious - which vaccines are given intravenously?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

ecco
Are you referring to this or something else...
Within the first 24 weeks or after 24 weeks if necessary to preserve the mother's health or if the fetus isn't viable.
If this is what you are referring to, then I see nothing wrong.



How is it "run over roughshod"?




I asked several times if you were referring to the 24-week limit.

Twenty four weeks is not "right up to being in labor ".

I have answered more than once that yes I am referring to your quotation about "Within the first 24 weeks or after 24 weeks if necessary to preserve the mother's health or if the fetus isn't viable." I'm not sure what was unclear, but hopefully I'm making my views clear at this time. I would like to see this actually enforced, and it's not, largely because fetuses born alive are killed, and abortions are performed past the 24th week that are not for reasons of health.

I have expressed three loopholes in the formulation that I would like to see closed. The first is the issue of "health." I would like to see health better defined. I don't want to see second term abortions done simply because the mother has a cold or anxiety. The second is that when it comes to third term abortions, I'd like to see it left to the life of the mother, not merely health. And last, I'd like 24 weeks dropped to 22 weeks -- Medical Science has really progressed.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

From the article you linked...

The new state law leaves it up to the mother's health-care provider to "use their reasonable and good faith professional judgment based on the facts of the patient's case."​

​

Which means that those providers who are in favor of abortion for ANY reason up to the time of birth will look for ANY reason they can, no matter how trumped up. Don't imagine this doesn't happen.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

@ecco

The slavery of the South was NOT comparable to the slavery of the Bible. Slaves of the south were not even considered people.

 

[ecco]

I have answered more than once that yes I am referring to your quotation about "Within the first 24 weeks or after 24 weeks if necessary to preserve the mother's health or if the fetus isn't viable." I'm not sure what was unclear, but hopefully I'm making my views clear at this time. I would like to see this actually enforced, and it's not, largely because fetuses born alive are killed, and abortions are performed past the 24th week that are not for reasons of health.

Yes, you have clarified "24 weeks".

The point is that you have not shown any evidence that this is being violated. You have not shown that "abortions are performed past the 24th week that are not for reasons of health".

I have expressed three loopholes in the formulation that I would like to see closed. The first is the issue of "health." I would like to see health better defined. I don't want to see second term abortions done simply because the mother has a cold or anxiety.

I think there is generally accepted agreement on what is meant by "health". However, if women are getting abortions because "the mother has a cold or anxiety", then I would certainly agree that the word needs better definition and clarification.

So, do you have evidence that late-term abortions are
being performed for health reasons when the only health reason is that "the mother has a cold or anxiety"?

 

[ecco]

​

Which means that those providers who are in favor of abortion for ANY reason up to the time of birth will look for ANY reason they can, no matter how trumped up. Don't imagine this doesn't happen.

OK. Let's not leave it to my imagination (or to yours). Provide evidence that it has happened.

 

[ecco]

@ecco

The slavery of the South was NOT comparable to the slavery of the Bible. Slaves of the south were not even considered people.

Nonsense.

I'm quite certain that Andrew Jackson considered Sally Hemmings to be a person.