Vice President Pence Cast Tie Breaking Vote

[Shadow Wolf]

Sometimes you need an educator, sometimes you need a janitor. The education system is just a festering boil on the *** of America at this point, someone needs to lance the zit and clean the floor. Educators are great at teaching people, not so great at streamlining operations and managing finances.

A huge problem that has lead to the decline of American education is the fact it is already plagued by people with no experience as an educator making decisions for educators.

 

[Revoltingest]

Well Vice President Pence joins the short list of VP's that have had to cast the tie breaking vote in the Senate. He cast his vote on the conformation of Elisabeth DeVos as Education Secretary

She seems a good candidate....pro-choice on education.

 

[esmith]

A huge problem that has lead to the decline of American education is the fact it is already plagued by people with no experience as an educator making decisions for educators.

Maybe that's what we need, someone who is not associated with the educator mafia.

 

[Mindmaster]

A huge problem that has lead to the decline of American education is the fact it is already plagued by people with no experience as an educator making decisions for educators.

The educators, time and time again, have proven they are simply incapable of making these sorts of decisions. Academics live in an idealistic world, not really our reality. That's good for forward thinking, great for teaching, even better for encouraging people to grow... It's terrible when it's time to pay the bills.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Maybe that's what we need, someone who is not associated with the educator mafia.

How can a none educator possibly have any comprehension of works for education? I don't know about you, but I certainly wouldn't go to a dentist for a knee replacement. They don't have the knowledge, education, training, or experience to do so. And, not only that, it puts those who don't know a damn thing about education and educating and have probably never even heard of the word pedagogy are being placed on equal footing--and in this case above--those who have a background and knowledge of what will and won't work.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The educators, time and time again, have proven they are simply incapable of making these sorts of decisions.

In many cases they aren't even allowed to make these decisions. It's been taken out of their hands. So very frequently they are being made by people who have never stepped foot in a class room as an educator.

 

[idav]

Maybe that's what we need, someone who is not associated with the educator mafia.

That seems to be the general idea, get a bunch of folks that no little on their high positions.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The educators, time and time again, have proven they are simply incapable of making these sorts of decisions. Academics live in an idealistic world, not really our reality. That's good for forward thinking, great for teaching, even better for encouraging people to grow... It's terrible when it's time to pay the bills.

Now, just remember, supporting DeVoss means that when it comes time to paying the bills, there is now a much higher chance that those payments are going to be going to religious schools that teach kids Creationism and how to say "evolution is just a theory."

 

[columbus]

Maybe that's what we need, someone who is not associated with the educator mafia.

Sometimes you must destroy the village in order to save it?
Tom

 

[tytlyf]

Typical, corporations that want a piece of the govt pie. Shut down the public schools in place of for-profit schools. We already have charter and private schools. I don't understand this mythical problem.

 

[Mindmaster]

Typical, corporations that want a piece of the govt pie. Shut down the public schools in place of for-profit schools. We already have charter and private schools. I don't understand this mythical problem.

I'm completely for-profit schools, free breeds mediocrity. But, with that, I'm also against government paying the tuition via loans (causes the schools to keep upping their fees to the point where no one can pay them), and also would like the taxes for the local schools to be removed so we can use that money to CHOOSE which schools we fund. I think you should only be paying for schools if you have children, and the schools you pay should be the ones you like. If you don't have kids, I think you should only pay if you feel like donating.

I think it is ridiculous to pay when you don't even have a horse in the race. But, the liberals know what I know... If it worked that way all these crappy brainwashing schools, and the under-performing ones would fold up. And, they SHOULD.

 

[Iti oj]

I'm completely for-profit schools, free breeds mediocrity. But, with that, I'm also against government paying the tuition via loans (causes the schools to keep upping their fees to the point where no one can pay them), and also would like the taxes for the local schools to be removed so we can use that money to CHOOSE which schools we fund. I think you should only be paying for schools if you have children, and the schools you pay should be the ones you like. If you don't have kids, I think you should only pay if you feel like donating.

I think it is ridiculous to pay when you don't even have a horse in the race. But, the liberals know what I know... If it worked that way all these crappy brainwashing schools, and the under-performing ones would fold up. And, they SHOULD.

That sounds irrational to me
American citizens, workers and voters are your horse in the race.

 

[Mindmaster]

That sounds irrational to me
American citizens, workers and voters are your horse in the race.

Not really whether other American's thrive or sink is really irrelevant to me personally, but hey whatever floats your boat. I think it's silly to pay for anything for other people unless it truly is something of beyond a scale to be managed locally. Pre-1950 all schools were local affairs, and we did a lot better on grades and pass rates as well as economically. Proof is sort of in the pudding... If anything, the constant failures of the current educational system are more than adequate proof that it is useless.

It's not how much you spend it's how well you spend it that matters, and that seems to be something that is lost on people at this juncture. I'm sure we can save a ton of money when we go into all of these schools and fire all of the fake shrinks, close the cry rooms and safe spaces, and get back to making schools a place where people can learn.

 

[Mister Emu]

Now, just remember, supporting DeVoss means that when it comes time to paying the bills, there is now a much higher chance that those payments are going to be going to religious schools that teach kids Creationism and how to say "evolution is just a theory."

Should we only talk about terrible schools that are failing their children when we speak of public schools? There is also a much higher chance that those payments are going to go to amazing schools that are better than their public counterparts.

I don't understand this mythical problem.

I don't understand why there is a problem with vouchers either. Tuition to a great Catholic high school in Louisville costs ~13,000. JCPS(our public school system) spends over 12,000 per child. The amount of people that could afford an extra thousand to send their kids to a better school is exponentially larger than the amount that can afford to pay 13,000. Let's open those doors for the lower middle class.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Should we only talk about terrible schools that are failing their children when we speak of public schools? There is also a much higher chance that those payments are going to go to amazing schools that are better than their public counterparts.

And we need to be focusing on fixing our public schools and cleansing all administration and decision making roles of those without any experience as an educator. You wouldn't want a heart surgeon leading a war, just as you wouldn't want a 5-star general doing a coronary bypass. Only a fool would call an electrician to fix their car, and having an automechanic wire your home is begging for problems. Educators must be in charge of education decisions, and they must be given the power to make these decisions and freed from the bureaucrats who have nooses made of red tape around the neck of public education.

 

[esmith]

And we need to be focusing on fixing our public schools and cleansing all administration and decision making roles of those without any experience as an educator. You wouldn't want a heart surgeon leading a war, just as you wouldn't want a 5-star general doing a coronary bypass. Only a fool would call an electrician to fix their car, and having an automechanic wire your home is begging for problems. Educators must be in charge of education decisions, and they must be given the power to make these decisions and freed from the bureaucrats who have nooses made of red tape around the neck of public education.

You don't seem to understand the problem that many parents have with their children's education at public school.
https://theses.lib.vt.edu/theses/available/etd-05122008-144009/.../MastersThesis.pdf
Another positive link
7 essentials about charter schools | Parenting
A neutral link
Why Charter Schools Are Hard to Find in Suburbia

One of your arguments is those without an education background should not be involved in education decisions. You seem to support the Dept of Education, however it seems to be a bureaucratic nightmare.
From: https://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/focus/what_pg2.html
"In the 1860s, a budget of $15,000 and four employees handled education fact-finding. By 1965, the Office of Education had more than 2,100 employees and a budget of $1.5 billion. As of mid-2010, the Department has nearly 4,300 employees and a budget of about $60 billion."

Now do you really think that the Dept of Education isn't a bureaucratic nightmare. Maybe we need someone who as Sec of Education who looks at the bloated infastructer and thinks something needs to change.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You don't seem to understand the problem that many parents have with their children's education at public school.
https://theses.lib.vt.edu/theses/available/etd-05122008-144009/.../MastersThesis.pdf
Another positive link
7 essentials about charter schools | Parenting
A neutral link
Why Charter Schools Are Hard to Find in Suburbia

Charter schools are not addressing the problem. You are also assuming I haven't looked into the issues.

One of your arguments is those without an education background should not be involved in education decisions. You seem to support the Dept of Education, however it seems to be a bureaucratic nightmare.

You misunderstood. My problem is not with the Department of Education, it is with people who have no experience as an educator making decisions for educators, decisions that impact the outcome of school. Of course we need standards and minimums to enforce certain things in school (or, more realistically, keep certain nonsense out of it), but when it comes to pedagogy and its application, so very often the hands of educators and tied and powerless because of the nitwit non-educators thinking they have a grasp on education and the morons who gave them authority over education.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

"In the 1860s, a budget of $15,000 and four employees handled education fact-finding. By 1965, the Office of Education had more than 2,100 employees and a budget of $1.5 billion. As of mid-2010, the Department has nearly 4,300 employees and a budget of about $60 billion."

I don't think I should have to tell you that we grew considerable between the 1860 (the era of Civil War and Reconstruction) and 1960 (Civil Rights and counter-culture), and we've grown considerably between 1960 and 2015-ish. The population of America was about 31 million during 1860, and we didn't put the emphasis on education like we do today. 100 years later, our population would grow to 180.7 million, with nearly all children going to school. Today it's over 320 million. So, why wouldn't these numbers you post go up?

 

[esmith]

Charter schools are not addressing the problem. You are also assuming I haven't looked into the issues.

You misunderstood. My problem is not with the Department of Education, it is with people who have no experience as an educator making decisions for educators, decisions that impact the outcome of school. Of course we need standards and minimums to enforce certain things in school (or, more realistically, keep certain nonsense out of it), but when it comes to pedagogy and its application, so very often the hands of educators and tied and powerless because of the nitwit non-educators thinking they have a grasp on education and the morons who gave them authority over education.

You mean like the Dept of Education.
Let me ask you a simple question. Do you think that enlisted military personnel with only a high school education can manage schools including setting up curriculum. Now to be honest the schools are for military personnel only.

 

[Mister Emu]

And we need to be focusing on fixing our public schools

Everything you said after this is a non-sequitur to what I said. Being an educator or not has no bearing on the decision to allow for greater school choice among lower income parents. It isn't a matter of how education is being done, but where.

As for the quoted section, while you are experimenting with ever more expensive ways to fail at fixing public schooling, children are being failed by those school systems and it would be better if they could evacuate it. It's been a long time since we locked the lower classes in a sinking ship and only the rich got lifeboats and I don't think we should take that approach with education.