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Victim souls

Spiderman

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Seeing the suffering I see (I'm not complaining) reminds me of a philosophy in the Catholic Church regarding Victim souls. "The victim soul is a chosen one whose suffering is mysteriously joined with the redemptive suffering of Christ and is used for the redemption of others." That is one way of making sense of the suffering in this world. For the victim soul, suffering is a vocation and has redemptive power.

"Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me" (Mk 8:34).
A cross is something you suffer torture and die on.

we are "heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if only we suffer with him so that we may also be glorified with him" (Rom 8:17).

"Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ on behalf of his body, which is the church" (Col 1:24).

Everyone has a certain share in the redemption. That is why we all suffer and die.

Do not be discouraged if your life is bitter and sorrowful. That is how God treats those He cherishes. Remember Job. Remember Jesus. Remember the sacrificial lamb and how it's suffering expiated the sins of others. Let your suffering and the bitterness of life take on a new redemptive dimension. Suffer joyfully. :)
What_is_victim_soul.jpg

compassion.3.jpg
 
Spiderman

Spiderman

Veteran Member
lostwanderingsoul said:
Sorry but I do not believe God makes people suffer. That is due to their own actions.
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Job's suffering and the suffering of the early Christians under the Roman Empire is due to their own actions. Are you sure? The suffering of Christians in Muslim countries is due to their own actions?

Where in the Bible does it say human suffering has no redemptive value?
 
G

Glaurung

Denizen of Niflheim
Saint Frankenstein said:
Redemptive suffering is definitely one of the more depressing aspects of Catholic thought. Lol.
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Only if we focus too myopically on the joys of this world.

Ultimately the only purpose of this life is to merit spiritually for the next. Of course that's an easy thing to say, accepting it in practice is much harder. Nonetheless it is what Christ taught. Matthew 16:24-26

lostwanderingsoul said:
Sorry but I do not believe God makes people suffer. That is due to their own actions. And no one has redemptive powers but Jesus.
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To live in this world is to inevitably suffer. No where does Jesus ever teach that Christians are exempt from this reality. The good news is that despite all the shortcomings of this life, it is far from meaningless. We have a unique opportunity to work towards a much greater and eternal life with God. This unfortunately, very often involves suffering. Now some souls willingly take on extraordinary suffering, not because they in and of themselves possess some unique ability to redeem others, but because though the graces they merit they participate in the redemptive action of Christ. (We all do insofar as we cooperate with grace). It's not that God makes anyone suffer, but that suffering is a part of God's plan for us in this life. We wouldn't be able to suffer if God hadn't intended it.
 
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U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
PopeADope said:
Seeing the suffering I see (I'm not complaining) reminds me of a philosophy in the Catholic Church regarding Victim souls. "The victim soul is a chosen one whose suffering is mysteriously joined with the redemptive suffering of Christ and is used for the redemption of others." That is one way of making sense of the suffering in this world. For the victim soul, suffering is a vocation and has redemptive power.

"Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me" (Mk 8:34).
A cross is something you suffer torture and die on.

we are "heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if only we suffer with him so that we may also be glorified with him" (Rom 8:17).

"Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ on behalf of his body, which is the church" (Col 1:24).

Everyone has a certain share in the redemption. That is why we all suffer and die.

Do not be discouraged if your life is bitter and sorrowful. That is how God treats those He cherishes. Remember Job. Remember Jesus. Remember the sacrificial lamb and how it's suffering expiated the sins of others. Let your suffering and the bitterness of life take on a new redemptive dimension. Suffer joyfully. :)
What_is_victim_soul.jpg

compassion.3.jpg
Click to expand...


This reminds me of when I was in RCIA class. The priest mentioned a lady that used to go to the parish. She was dying of a terminal disease. She told her children she wanted to die in order to save others. She felt by her suffering and death, people would understand suffering through her suffering and in turn in christ. So, basically, she was helping people carry their own cross just as one of the apostles helped jesus carry his. They both suffered.

It was interesting because I never heard of someone today have that type of mindset to die literally in christ. Usually, I hear spiritual, by faith, by belief, not taken literally, symbolic, but, unlike Catholics (and like-minded denominations), I don't hear sacrifice taken literally. So it's like there is literal salvation and there is symbolic salvation.

I thought this example and to many a lesson about sacrifice not only in biblical days but today as well. I honestly feel that we shouldn't make "people saints" because everyone is a saint since we carry our own cross. However we describe it or save you is up to the individual; but, christianity is pretty simple concept to understand. Just people who choose to live it, well, it's quite difficult and most say it's worth it, so...
 
Jainarayan

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Jumi said:
What about people who suffer without having any actions, say a baby.
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Babies or animals. I think that's where the eastern beliefs in karma come into play. Maybe the soul chose its birth for some greater good, maybe there's a karmic lesson to learn or debt to be paid. Karma does not discriminate.

The further I've moved away from Christianity the less I understand the idea of suffering for God. Western iconography almost always depicts saints and holy persons showing pain and suffering. I'd think that if they are enduring hardship at God's behest, it would be joyous, knowing they're pleasing him.
 
Brickjectivity

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
The whole topic of redemption gets obfuscated beyond all recognition and turned into a guilt trip, resulting in the ridiculous flagellants -- very practical evidence of a wrong turn somewhere. The flagellants would whip themselves as 'Penance', and even though these people were eventually (after centuries) called heretics their actions resulted from this unfortunate policy. The concept remains -- you punish yourself or receive some punishment to pay for a sin. Its...terribly unfortunate and malformed policy I think.
 
A

anotherglenda

Member
PopeADope said:
... a philosophy in the Catholic Church regarding Victim souls. "The victim soul is a chosen one whose suffering is mysteriously joined with the redemptive suffering of Christ and is used for the redemption of others." That is one way of making sense of the suffering in this world. For the victim soul, suffering is a vocation and has redemptive power....
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I imagine that philosophy would be considered an obscene justification of child abuse by those who suffered at the hands of the Catholic Church ... so the suffering inflicted on them was for their own good?!
 
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