Volodymyr Zelensky is going to fare well in the history books

[metis]

He is truly leading his people, and they are rising to his leadership. Bravo!

Yes, but the "fat lady" hasn't sung yet.

I don't believe Putin is likely to give up because it will make him look weak, and fascists don't tolerate themselves looking weak for "health" reasons. He's already hitting power plants, and we should remember that winter isn't that far away and what that combination could entail.

IOW, I'm afraid there's lot more to come, and what could happen could be much worse than what we've already seen. I can't see him compromising at this point as that would be political suicide for him.

 

[sun rise]

A successful war.
I hope it continues until Russia's soon abject defeat.

Personally it's not Russia that I want defeated but the idea that aggressive wars of conquest can be successful any longer.

Sometimes the defeat of an idea requires defeat of a nation but it can also be that the leader exits the scene one way or another or the system exits the scene. After all, the history of Russia is that the czar and the government were no more in WWI although that history also teaches us to not be sanguine about what might replace the current system.

 

[sun rise]

I don't believe Putin is likely to give up

I don't think he will either. But if things keep going Russia's choice will be to exit him or go totally nuclear insane.

 

[Twilight Hue]

That wonderful Inspiring Russian VDV promo....


Alas, it must come out with the new 'updated' version......

 

[Twilight Hue]

Yes, but the "fat lady" hasn't sung yet.

I don't believe Putin is likely to give up because it will make him look weak, and fascists don't tolerate themselves looking weak for "health" reasons. He's already hitting power plants, and we should remember that winter isn't that far away and what that combination could entail.

IOW, I'm afraid there's lot more to come, and what could happen could be much worse than what we've already seen. I can't see him compromising at this point as that would be political suicide for him.

The funniest thing yet was the Russians were bombing the cell towers and cutting off their own lines of communication!!!

 

[lewisnotmiller]

That guy really is the spiritual successor to Churchill. I've been amazed at his tenacity, his energy and the breadth of his activity. One moment he is encouraging morale at home, the next he is cajoling, or shaming, other countries into supporting Ukraine with more weapons and aid. And then he's making statements to Russia that set up what could be a bargaining position for the end game, whenever it comes. He never stops. I don't know how he keeps going. Arguably Putin's biggest single error, in this whole sorry business, was to underestimate Zelensky Some comedian! *


* Churchill's retort to Hitler's boast that he would wring Britain's neck like that of a chicken was: "Some chicken. Some neck."

His energy has been pretty amazing.
A small example I found informative;

Zelensky has been lobbying the Australian government around weapons. Same as he is with many governments I guess. We're providing about 60 light APCs as part of a deal.

He (and the local ambassador) immediately then shifts to offering to test an experimental new vehicle we are producing but not yet commissioned, positioning it as a win-win to our army. Our new weaponry gets field tested, and data will be shared, they get a bunch on new light armoured vehicles.

Whether it's a good idea to put weapons in the battlefield that haven't completed field testing is debatable, but the consistent energy and focus on engaging in this way with a whole raft of countries all at the same time? Seems real.

 

[Stevicus]

After some recent successes in the east of the Ukraine in it's battle against invader Russia, President Volodymyr Zelensky, once a television comedian, in a Telegram post addressed to Russia said:

"Do you still think that we are 'one nation?' Do you still think that you can scare us, break us, make us make concessions?

"You really did not understand anything? Don't understand who we are? What are we for? What are we talking about?

"Read my lips: Without gas or without you? Without you. Without light or without you? Without you. Without water or without you? Without you. Without food or without you? Without you.

"Cold, hunger, darkness and thirst are not as scary and deadly for us as your 'friendship and brotherhood, but history will put everything in its place. And we will be with gas, light, water and food ... and WITHOUT you!"
​

He is truly leading his people, and they are rising to his leadership. Bravo!

He has definitely risen to the occasion. I have to salute him for that. They are putting up one hell of a fight against a seemingly intractable (albeit confused and incompetent) foe.

I was browsing Quora the other day and was reminded of an interesting fact: In the past 200 years, Russia has only won one war, WW2. (Well, two wars if you count the minor war against Turkey in 1878, which Russia won, but didn't get very much.)

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Putin is trying to identify all Slavic Nations with Russia. The difficulty with that is though the languages most of them speak have a common root, genetically, culturally, politically, religiously and racially, they make up a very diverse group of nations that do not identify them selves as Russian. But have their own strong national identities.
Those in the far East identify more with the Mongols and China than they do with Moscow. And those to the west more with the other European states.

Putin's wish to bring them all under a single Russian Empire, is wishful thinking at best, and more likely to cause the further breakup of nations under Russia's control. He invasion has reinforced the Ukrainians strength of self identity far more than any of their own leaders have previously managed.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Yes, but the "fat lady" hasn't sung yet.

I don't believe Putin is likely to give up because it will make him look weak, and fascists don't tolerate themselves looking weak for "health" reasons. He's already hitting power plants, and we should remember that winter isn't that far away and what that combination could entail.

IOW, I'm afraid there's lot more to come, and what could happen could be much worse than what we've already seen. I can't see him compromising at this point as that would be political suicide for him.

Putin's use of cruise missiles against Ukraine's civilian power infrastructure, indicates that the West should be supplying equivalent weapons to Ukraine... It should be made clear to Russia that any weapons they uses will be countered with equal force. And with a similar power and range capability. That would put Russian forces and infrastructure under similar jeopardy .

Such weapons in Ukraine's arsenal would allow them to take out Russian arms depots, supply routes, bridges, and military mustering points, and headquarters. And create a defacto demilitarised zone well away from Ukraine's boarders. It would strictly limit Russia's ability to reinforce and supply their invading forces, or their ability to mount attacks across the borders.

It is not that the Ukrainians are not aware of these targets now, but they do not have the wherewithall to eliminate them. Except in a very limited way by behind the lines attacks by special forces and resistance fighters.

 

[Stevicus]

Putin is trying to identify all Slavic Nations with Russia. The difficulty with that is though the languages most of them speak have a common root, genetically, culturally, politically, religiously and racially, they make up a very diverse group of nations that do not identify them selves as Russian. But have their own strong national identities.
Those in the far East identify more with the Mongols and China than they do with Moscow. And those to the west more with the other European states.

Putin's wish to bring them all under a single Russian Empire, is wishful thinking at best, and more likely to cause the further breakup of nations under Russia's control. He invasion has reinforced the Ukrainians strength of self identity far more than any of their own leaders have previously managed.

One thing I've noticed about nationalists from nations in decline - they tend to hearken back to the "glories of the past." It's similar among nationalists/racists/capitalists in America, where they seemingly want to turn America back into what it was in the past. Sometimes, there are nationalities which want their old territory back or borders from an earlier time.

It's ironic, since the Soviet state was internationalist and decidedly anti-racist (at least ideologically), though it's not entirely surprising that they've reverted like this. Even Westerners have kind of painted themselves into an ideological corner, as they still generally support nationalism of the oppressed, while opposing nationalism of the oppressors. The problem is that sometimes, the oppressors and the oppressed can change roles, yet nationalism is always malignant no matter what.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

One thing I've noticed about nationalists from nations in decline - they tend to hearken back to the "glories of the past." It's similar among nationalists/racists/capitalists in America, where they seemingly want to turn America back into what it was in the past. Sometimes, there are nationalities which want their old territory back or borders from an earlier time.

It's ironic, since the Soviet state was internationalist and decidedly anti-racist (at least ideologically), though it's not entirely surprising that they've reverted like this. Even Westerners have kind of painted themselves into an ideological corner, as they still generally support nationalism of the oppressed, while opposing nationalism of the oppressors. The problem is that sometimes, the oppressors and the oppressed can change roles, yet nationalism is always malignant no matter what.

National pride that enjoines a nation to join as one, and with their own efforts excell, is to be encouraged.

To do so at the expense of other people and nations should be condemned.

 

[Flankerl]

The People's Republic of Donetsk's democratic majority as well as the People's Republic of Luhansk's democratic majority should have the right of self-determination by referendum of the people deciding their state's sovereignty, or alliance with Russia or Ukraine. Neither Zelensky and N.A.T.O. nor Putin should decide that!

Do the Ukrainians who were expelled from those Russian satellite states also get a vote?
We are talking about a 1/3 of their original population that had to flee.

 

[Flankerl]

 

[Suave]

Do the Ukrainians who were expelled from those Russian satellite states also get a vote?
We are talking about a 1/3 of their original population that had to flee.

Of course, I believe any adult who has mostly resided in the Donbas region within the most recent year should be eligible to vote either for or against the Russian annexation of Donbas,

 

[Flankerl]

Of course, I believe any adult who has mostly resided in the Donbas region within the most recent year should be eligible to vote either for or against the Russian annexation of Donbas,

So that's a no because these people fled in 2014 and later due to the regime put in place by Moscow.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Do the Ukrainians who were expelled from those Russian satellite states also get a vote?
We are talking about a 1/3 of their original population that had to flee.

It does not matter who votes and in what way.
The results will be predetermined in favour of what Russia wants it to be. Not the actual vote.

 

[JIMMY12345]

Maybe, but it's a fact they held preserving slavery as a very important goal, one they must be willing to fight to preserve. It's also very likely they wouldn't have because some places in the South are still very racist, and if Indiana still has places with the Sunset Town mentality I'll just assume it's still alive in the South as well.

Who writes History? My History Teacher said it is the victor. This could be the aggressor Russia. Or more accurately the FSB. They call the shots if Mr Putin does not comply with their demands they will probably shoot HIM. He is their fall guy. If Russia loses, FSB (Russia State security) will blame him and keep the money.
The war will drag on. Russia will probably win. They maybe in the wrong but they have more men and weapons. This is not a Hollywood film where good guys triumph.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Who writes History?

The people who write it.
And your teacher isn't where the saying the winners write history comes from.
As I stated, the VP of the CSA himself wrote the CSA was fighting to keep what it believed to be the proper place of the negro, which is servitude. That wasn't some Yankee acting on behalf of Lincoln or Grant.

 

[Stevicus]

The people who write it.
And your teacher isn't where the saying the winners write history comes from.
As I stated, the VP of the CSA himself wrote the CSA was fighting to keep what it believed to be the proper place of the negro, which is servitude. That wasn't some Yankee acting on behalf of Lincoln or Grant.

It also depends on who the winners are. In the U.S., former Confederates were still free to write and publish their own versions of history. Those who were pro-Union probably had their own reasons for giving it a nod and a wink.

History is a pretty wide-ranging field. A lot of different viewpoints and opinions. There isn't just one official version of it.

Some histories of WW2 I've read are quite fascinating. I have a book of my grandfather's which, when reading it, one would get a very strong impression that America won the Second World War singlehandedly. The British were mentioned a few times, and the Soviets were hardly mentioned at all - as if their contribution was practically zero.

Herman Wouk once wrote, “It may grieve the judicious that the great public learns much of its history from works of entertainment. But such is the case.” In that sense, John Wayne may have more influence over many Americans' views on history than historians might have.

 

[Debater Slayer]

That guy really is the spiritual successor to Churchill.

Zelenskyy is neither a war criminal nor a violent colonialist, so it seems to me that he's much better than Churchill.