But that would allow poor people to vote...and besides, you couldn't trust 'em not to vouch for illegal immigrants to vote and take over the country...and yes, there are people who make stupid arguments like this...
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Voter ID Laws
- Thread starter YmirGF
- Start date
Here in Brazil our IDs feature a fingerprint of the holder, as well as birth date, handwritten signature, birth certificate info and optionally (but very often) the CPF number as well (somewhat comparable to the USA Social Security number). Even young children can have them nowadays.
People rarely if ever think of them as a bad thing. I certainly don't remember any politicians expressing dislike for them.
These days it would be possible to have biometric identification at the very least.
Speaking as an American, I don't either (not all of us are averse to the idea, by a long shot). Or rather, I wish I didn't understand that a large number of Americans are irrationally paranoid.
Just in case people missed it, let me say it again. You do not need a photo ID to vote in Canada! Maybe you have always voted that way because you have always had a photo ID. But you don't need one.
http://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=ids&document=index&lang=e
In Canada you can vote with a birth certificate and an electric bill. (I have in fact voted that way). You can vote with a library card and a letter from your school. You can vote with blood donor card and a letter from a homeless shelter. Or dozens of other combinations. And if you don't have any ID with your address you can have someone vouch for you.
Please don't make it sound like my country is involved in the same kind of voter suppression that the Republican party in the states is doing. Harper tried that crap and failed. Long live Justin Trudeau!
Well, ya see, a national identification card is what despots use to control their populations, and we're free people, hear? And it's just another step in the march of godless communism, a socialist plot to take over America and turn it into a dictatorship of someone other that good, hardworking American capitalists. That, and it's written in the Bible that the Antichrist will have everyone's number and they'll have it tattooed on their foreheads, and a national ID or Driver's License is just one more little step in the Devil's plan to destroy America...
Might it be a manifestation of that worry about "the government" that I so often read about? Big Brother wants to have files on us so that it can control us, something like that?
If you ask me, that might be letting a perception of self-reliance go a bit too far. Americans don't seem to have that little a reliance on governments. There is a real need for urban planning and the like, and that means a need for learning about the people.
Also, it seems to me that a government gone wrong would not particularly need or care about the photos of the people it might conceivably be exploiting, don't you think? Control of the military, of water resources, of transportation rotes, of mint and economic policy... all of those sound a lot more noteworthy to me, and I don't think Americans have found much of a way to be independent of the government for that.
If you ask me, that might be letting a perception of self-reliance go a bit too far. Americans don't seem to have that little a reliance on governments. There is a real need for urban planning and the like, and that means a need for learning about the people.
Also, it seems to me that a government gone wrong would not particularly need or care about the photos of the people it might conceivably be exploiting, don't you think? Control of the military, of water resources, of transportation rotes, of mint and economic policy... all of those sound a lot more noteworthy to me, and I don't think Americans have found much of a way to be independent of the government for that.
Thanks. I grew up listening to quite a few adults (and some kids my own age) talking like this. You'd better be a follower of Brother John Birch growing up in Central Illinois in the late 60s/early 70s, or at least have read all the nonsense that was in circulation...and I'm not terribly surprised to find quite a few people still buy into the conspiracy theories, the hateful ideology and hateful version of religion...
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Let's go back to whites only while we're at it
That was mentioned as well in the sense of civil rights issues historically, but also argues a more efficient and better run Goverment when voting rights were first earned and regarded as being a privilege by those who hold a vested interest, and were more active, educated, and informed when it comes down to selecting and voting for candidates.
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/tea-party-congressman-ted-yoho-voting-suggestion
There are three main things.
1) We are contrary. It is my legal right to vote and there is nothing constitutional about ID restrictions. I am a citizen, of age, with no felony record. Nobody has a right to stop me because I refuse to show ID. It makes me annoyed.
2) There aren't any indications that voter fraud exists measurably. There are, however, documented cases of government shenanigans. The 2000 presidential race result was a result of state voting fraud in Florida.
3) This is voter suppression. There is simply no other explanation. The only people it seriously affects are marginalized people. People the Republicans would prefer to exclude and it's the Republicans who are pushing these laws and restrictions.
Frankly, I think that there is a subtle metamessage as well. Getting people used to the idea that their "rights" subject to revocation by the government.
Tom
1) We are contrary. It is my legal right to vote and there is nothing constitutional about ID restrictions. I am a citizen, of age, with no felony record. Nobody has a right to stop me because I refuse to show ID. It makes me annoyed.
2) There aren't any indications that voter fraud exists measurably. There are, however, documented cases of government shenanigans. The 2000 presidential race result was a result of state voting fraud in Florida.
3) This is voter suppression. There is simply no other explanation. The only people it seriously affects are marginalized people. People the Republicans would prefer to exclude and it's the Republicans who are pushing these laws and restrictions.
Frankly, I think that there is a subtle metamessage as well. Getting people used to the idea that their "rights" subject to revocation by the government.
Tom
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I think the point behind it was motivation through hard work by which voting was essentally earned as being a privilege and not just a givin where one could just get registered, carded, and go.
There's an awful lot or rhetoric about being independent and wanting smaller government, but what most of those people want is government that is controlled by "us" and doing what WE want, and not what that other party and those other people want--'cause that's unAmerican stuff! Keep all them minorities in line, throw every even minor law violator in prison and throw away the keys (well, except for us...the good old boy police will be OUR friends and never rough us up or give our kids trouble), protect OUR (not their) property, make plenty of guns and have a strong defense (but be careful, the gubberment might use the military to turn the country into a godless communist dictatorship, especially if them libberals get in power...that's why we need a dozen military-style weapons and thousands of rounds of ammo each)...
Koldo
Outstanding Member
And how do you prove any of that without an ID?
Why should I have to prove it?
Tom
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
It's not so much the bill itself, but rather that those who are most effective tend to vote democrat (such as college students or elderly black people whose parents did bother to go through with the hassle of reporting a birth), some states like Texas will accept a gun permit but not a college ID (many states will not accept a college ID) that many of these bills also closed down many license branches and reduced their hours of operation and the days they are open, they often placed restrictions on early and absentee voting, and they were passed under the pretense of them being a voter fraud preventative measure, even though voter fraud is very rare and no where close to being enough of a problem to through an election (a few people even got caught--one lady was even visited by the FBI at here place of work--trying to prove how "easy" voter fraud is). Really, I have nothing against the idea of it, but they really went about it the wrong way and couldn't even give a rational reason for doing it.
This is the Information Age. The US voting system is ridiculous.
Why can't somebody walk up to a machine like an ATM, enter their SSI number, and vote. When they are done, they get a paper copy, the machine stores a paper copy, and the results go up on an internet site where the voter can see that it tallied.
If anybody has a reason to believe something is amiss, there's a paper trail to follow. If not, tentative results state showing up immediately.
Tom
Why can't somebody walk up to a machine like an ATM, enter their SSI number, and vote. When they are done, they get a paper copy, the machine stores a paper copy, and the results go up on an internet site where the voter can see that it tallied.
If anybody has a reason to believe something is amiss, there's a paper trail to follow. If not, tentative results state showing up immediately.
Tom
Its not a big deal at all. We have to have a photo ID to do lots of things. Drive, buy alcohol, see an R rated movie etc. Showing a photo ID to vote is just good sense. It assures that only people qualified to vote, (non felon, US citizens) are voting and in the right district and only once. I see no problem with it. It doesn't hinder voting, it protects its sanctity.
When it comes to voting on raising property taxes I strongly feel that only those who pay property taxes should be allowed to vote on that. Its just to easy to vote to take someone else's money.
Health cards in Canada don't have photos.
Yes they do.
Unless you have a very old one. If so they will get around to you eventually and make you get one of the new style.
edit oops I just realize, they do in Ontario, they do in Quebec, they do in Manitoba, B.C., P.E.I ...
I guess they don't in Alberta.
I am not sure about the others.
Last edited:
Koldo
Outstanding Member
To establish you are indeed apt to vote ?